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  1. #1

    Kingdom Stat 'Experience'

    What the hell is this?

    Kanki at B experience have stats like (93/92/95) while Ouhon have (93/88/89) at B experience too.

    While there is a difference in stats, there is also a difference in their ability to command a huge number of troops(most likely). So what is experience?




    一百万年白日梦冰蚕(1,000,000 Years Daydream Ice Silkworm)
    四十万年冰玉皇帝蝎子(400,000 Years Ice Jade Emperor Scorpion Hyotei)
    七十万年冰天堂雪女雪雪皇帝(700,000 Years Ice Heavenly Snow Woman 'Snow Emperor' Xue Nu)

    十万年八角神秘冰厂(100,000 Years Octagonal Mysterious Ice Plant)
    三十万年冰熊国王小白(300,000 Years Ice Bear King Xiao Bai)
    十万年海美人公主李雅(100,000 Years Sea Mermaid Princess Li Ya)
    七十万年恶魔皇帝(700,000 Years Evil Eye Tyrant Emperor)

    Limit Individual, 'The strength to move unhindered throughout the world'


  2. #2
    I've literally never paid any attention to the experience stat. Even if you don't listen to the stats, they're mostly consistent. Experience is all over the show, though.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I've literally never paid any attention to the experience stat. Even if you don't listen to the stats, they're mostly consistent. Experience is all over the show, though.
    Lol
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Lol
    DJ's strength is obviously a mistake. SHK is spot on

  5. #5
    I don't see any mistake here. DJ is a physical tank who is not as good at reading his opponents, while SHK is a smart fighter, who is not very buffy. Overall they might be on the same level, but the matchup was bad for Juuteki.
    Last edited by Cichy; 07-02-2017 at 11:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Hara had two chances before and 1 chance after to give SHK an accurate rating and he remained consistent throughout, so I don't doubt it tbh.

    The experience stuff IDK.

  7. #7
    not sure honestly

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    I don't see any mistake here. DJ is a physical tank who is not as good at reading his opponents, while SHK is a smart fighter, who is not very buffy. Overall they might be on the same level, but the matchup was bad for Juuteki.
    Kaioku: "Currently, speaking generously he's on Moubu's level"
    "He'll have no trouble against these guys, you have nothing to worry about"
    Juuteki: "Looks like I'm forced to face him." *Says his final farewell to his subordinates*
    *SHK no diffs him*
    Juuteki's dying words: "So whether it be brains or brawn, I am no match for him. Truly a monster"


    Overall they might be on the same level
    Overall they might be on the same level
    Overall they might be on the same level



    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Hara had two chances before and 1 chance after to give SHK an accurate rating and he remained consistent throughout, so I don't doubt it tbh.
    The experience stuff IDK.
    Yes. It's possible to say inconsistent/obviously wrong things multiple times. Hara has done it frequently with the stats. You think Ten's leadership is not just well above Shin's, but closer to Ouki's than it is to Shin's? Hara had the chance to correct that, and the other unquestionably inaccurate stats, but he didn't. The experience stuff don't make any sense either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    DJ's strength is obviously a mistake. SHK is spot on
    Speaking generously, his strength is on the same level as that of Sir Moubu.
    Last edited by barreltheif; 07-03-2017 at 04:57 AM.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Kaioku: "Currently, speaking generously he's on Moubu's level"
    "He'll have no trouble against these guys, you have nothing to worry about"
    Juuteki: "Looks like I'm forced to face him." *Says his final farewell to his subordinates*
    *SHK no diffs diff*
    Juuteki's dying words: "So whether it be brains or brawn, I am no match for him. Truly a monster"











    Yes. It's possible to say inconsistent/obviously wrong things multiple times. Hara has done it frequently with the stats. You think Ten's leadership is not just well above Shin's, but closer to Ouki's than it is to Shin's? Hara had the chance to correct that, and the other unquestionably inaccurate stats, but he didn't. The experience stuff don't make any sense either.
    All that "stronger then Moubu" thing is actually bullshit, I thought this is obvious. It was just to hype SHK for future arcs.

    Hara actually writen a spin off chapter about Moubu's younger years that shows how young SHK "defeated" young Moubu.

    He made a surprise punch when Moubu was not prepared.


    SHK is just a bad match up against brainless tanks due to his smart fighting style.
    Last edited by Cichy; 07-03-2017 at 05:12 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    All that "stronger then Moubu" thing is actually bullshit, I thought this is obvious. It was just to hype SHK for future arcs.
    Hara actually writen a spin off chapter about Moubu's younger years that shows how young SHK "defeated" young Moubu.

    He made a surprise punch when Moubu was not prepared.

    SHK is just a bad match up against brainless tanks due to his smart fighting style.
    You're confused. Kaioku first suggested that SHK used to be stronger than Moubu, possibly referring to a fight in their youth. Kaioku then stated that currently, SHK isn't all that far below Moubu; "speaking generously" they're on the same level.

    And remember that Kaioku is SHK's right hand man, making him one of the most qualified and trustworthy people when it comes to SHK's strength. It's no different than Ouki's right hand man correcting Rinbou. And just as Tou was immediately proven right by Ouki no diffing a strong martial general, Kaioku was immediately proven right by SHK soloing Juuteki's army and no diffing him.

    Juuteki isn't a brainless tank. He's actually pretty smart. He figured out the best chance to escape SHK's offensive tactics. We also know that he's no match for SHK in brawn, as he himself stated.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    We also know that he's no match for SHK in brawn, as he himself stated.
    The problem with that statement is that Juuteki was not overpowered by SHK, but (just like young Moubu) outsmarted. Juuteki didn't expect that SHK will be aiming at his hand and that's why he was taken down so easily.

    Shou Hei Kun is a skinny, small guy that spent most of his life in Kantan making plans and schemes. In the past 10 years there was only one battle we know he took part of. Do you really think someone like this would have 99 strenght like Moubu and Kanmei? Do you really think he would be a match for Houken?

    Aside from hype there might be various resons why Kaioku said that. Maybe SHK want's to spread the rumors that he is the strongest in China so that his enemies would be afraid to duel him? Who knows.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Kaioku: "Currently, speaking generously he's on Moubu's level"
    "He'll have no trouble against these guys, you have nothing to worry about"
    Juuteki: "Looks like I'm forced to face him." *Says his final farewell to his subordinates*
    *SHK no diffs him*
    Juuteki's dying words: "So whether it be brains or brawn, I am no match for him. Truly a monster"











    Yes. It's possible to say inconsistent/obviously wrong things multiple times. Hara has done it frequently with the stats. You think Ten's leadership is not just well above Shin's, but closer to Ouki's than it is to Shin's? Hara had the chance to correct that, and the other unquestionably inaccurate stats, but he didn't. The experience stuff don't make any sense either.



    Speaking generously, his strength is on the same level as that of Sir Moubu.
    Shin's leadership is terrible and he's yet to prove capable of leading HSU without Ten, there's more to leadership than charisma.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    The problem with that statement is that Juuteki was not overpowered by SHK, but (just like young Moubu) outsmarted. Juuteki didn't expect that SHK will be aiming at his hand and that's why he was taken down so easily.
    Blitzing someone is a way of overpowering them, using skill, speed, and combat intelligence. If you can blitz someone, cut off their arm, and no diff them, then you're a fuckton stronger than them. Kaioku agrees with me. So does Juuteki. Juuteki can also feel how physically strong SHK's attacks are, because he's the one who got hit by them. But I'm sure you know much better than them.


    Shou Hei Kun is a skinny, small guy that spent most of his life in Kantan making plans and schemes. In the past 10 years there was only one battle we know he took part of. Do you really think someone like this would have 99 strenght like Moubu and Kanmei? Do you really think he would be a match for Houken?
    I think that he's strong enough to no diff a solid martial general, as we saw him do. I think he's strong enough that speaking generously, he's on the same level as Moubu martially. Fight evenly with Houken or Kanmei? Not so much.


    Aside from hype there might be various resons why Kaioku said that. Maybe SHK want's to spread the rumors that he is the strongest in China so that his enemies would be afraid to duel him? Who knows.
    Lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Shin's leadership is terrible and he's yet to prove capable of leading HSU without Ten, there's more to leadership than charisma.
    Yeah how could Shin possibly compare to his strategist? You're totally right, she's vastly above her own leader, it totally makes sense.
    Last edited by barreltheif; 07-03-2017 at 07:06 AM.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Blitzing someone is a way of overpowering them, using skill, speed, and combat intelligence. If you can blitz someone, cut off their arm, and no diff them, then you're a fuckton stronger than them. Kaioku agrees with me. So does Juuteki. Juuteki can also feel how physically strong SHK's attacks are, because he's the one who got hit by them. But I'm sure you know much better than them.




    I think that he's strong enough to no diff a solid martial general, as we saw him do. I think he's strong enough that speaking generously, he's on the same level as Moubu martially. Fight evenly with Houken or Kanmei? Not so much.




    Lol

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah how could Shin possibly compare to a leader nearly on par with Ouki? You're totally right, she's vastly above her own leader, it totally makes sense.


    ?? Ten's leadership is 87, that's quite good but nothing special really. Shin is just that bad.

  15. #15
    Ouki was probably the best leader in the series, aside from some kings and maybe Renpa.

    Shin will probably end up being one of the best leaders in the series, if not the best among all generals. Even on his first battlefield, he showed extraordinary leadership, rallying infantry who had previously looked down on him. His leadership is no less extraordinary than his strength. After a few kings and most of the great generals, Shin might already be the best leader in the series.

    Ten is Shin's strategist.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Ouki was probably the best leader in the series, aside from some kings and maybe Renpa. Shin will probably end up being one of the best leaders in the series, if not the best among all generals. Even on his first battlefield, he showed extraordinary leadership, rallying infantry who had previously looked down on him. His leadership is no less extraordinary than his strength. After a few kings and most of the great generals, Shin is probably already the best leader in the series. Ten is Shin's strategist.
    Not sure what Ouki has to do with this, his leadership stat is substantially better than Ten's

    Lol Shin being one of the beat leaders in the series? You are mistaking charisma for leadership, Shin just isn't a good leader, that's why Mouten had to bring in Ten- he couldn't even lead 1k men. There's so much more to leadership than morale feats. Leadership is the ability to make the right decisions for the team and make the best use of one's underlings, not the ability to rile up a crowd. What you are thinking of is charisma.

    For a RL example, Trump is incredibly charisnatic but is a laughable leader.
    Last edited by Tenma; 07-03-2017 at 07:16 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Blitzing someone is a way of overpowering them, using skill, speed, and combat intelligence. If you can blitz someone, cut off their arm, and no diff them, then you're a fuckton stronger than them. Kaioku agrees with me. So does Juuteki. Juuteki can also feel how physically strong SHK's attacks are, because he's the one who got hit by them. But I'm sure you know much better than them.
    The guy who wrote those words Hara-sensei agrees with me that SHK is martially far below Moubu level. But I'm sure you know much better than him. Whether or not you like it stats are official source. This means:

    1) Kaioku lied about SHK level

    or

    2) Kaioku was misinformed about his level.

    The biggest difference between manga statements and stats is that the first one can be proven wrong based on the context and new informations. In the future chapters of Kingdom there might be another statement that will negate the first one. That is however impossible with stats, because they are basically data about characters abilities presented in numbers based on authors opinion about them in a given moment in time. Sure, they can be interpreted in different way, but they can't be proven false.

    Juuteki didn't even have time to mesure SHK strenght, his hand was momentarely cut off. It was not about speed, but rather being unpredictable.

    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Lol
    Great argument, you totally convinced me.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Not sure what Ouki has to do with this, his leadership stat is substantially better than Ten's

    Lol Shin being one of the beat leaders in the series? You are mistaking charisma for leadership, Shin just isn't a good leader, that's why Mouten had to bring in Ten- he couldn't even lead 1k men. There's so much more to leadership than morale feats.
    Ouki is relevant because we are discussing stats that don't make sense. Ten's leadership stat is not only above Shin's, but closer to Ouki's than to Shin's. Those are three stats that don't make sense.

    Ten wasn't recruited for her leadership abilities. You know who Ten is right? She was recruited to be a strategist, not a leader. She had never even led a single soldier in her life when Mouten recruited her for fuck's sake.

    Shin is a leader. He got leadership training from Ouki. He draws in and recruits the best subordinates, like Naki, Sosui, Gaku Rai, Kyoukai, etc. He leads them from the front. He rallies them. He inspires them. He brings out the best in them. They trust him and would gladly die for him.

    He's versatile. He doesn't rely on the awe or worship of his own men. As a child he rallied infantry who had previously looked down on him, getting them to cooperate and help turn the tide of the whole battle. This led to Ouki giving him his own unit. As a 1000 man commander, he rallied one quarter of Duke Hyou's whole army, when it was on the brink of annihilation, and brought it to victory. You know where Ten was? Watching Shin, shitting herself at his ability to get 10,000 to suddenly follow him. Because he's a leader. She's not. She's a strategist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    The guy who wrote those words Hara-sensei agrees with me that SHK is martially far below Moubu level. But I'm sure you know much better than him. Whether or not you like it stats are official source. This means:
    1) Kaioku lied about SHK level
    or
    2) Kaioku was misinformed about his level.
    The biggest difference between manga statements and stats is that the first one can be proven wrong based on the context and new informations. In the future chapters of Kingdom there might be another statement that will negate the first one. That is however impossible with stats, because they are basically data about characters abilities presented in numbers based on authors opinion about them in a given moment in time. Sure, they can be interpreted in different way, but they can't be proven false.
    Juuteki didn't even have time to mesure SHK strenght, his hand was momentarely cut off. It was not about speed, but rather being unpredictable.
    Great argument, you totally convinced me.
    The stats are frequently inconsistent, and are largely disregarded by people on this forum. Just look at this thread. At the very best, they're secondary canon, and hold weight only when they don't contradict feats or statements in the manga. SHK's strength stat is contradicted by him fodderizing Juuteki and by Juuteki's and Kaioku's statements.

    Hara obviously gave Juuteki time to recognize that SHK's strength is far above his. But no, I bet Juuteki was lying to himself, just like Kaioku. You're massively in denial.
    Last edited by barreltheif; 07-03-2017 at 08:35 AM.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Ouki is relevant because we are discussing stats that don't make sense. Ten's leadership stat is not only above Shin's, but closer to Ouki's than to Shin's.

    Ten wasn't recruited for her leadership abilities. You know who Ten is right? She was recruited to be a strategist, not a leader. She had never even led a single soldier in her life when Mouten recruited her for fuck's sake.

    Shin is a leader. He got leadership training from Ouki. He draws in and recruits the best subordinates, like Naki, Sosui, Gaku Rai, Kyoukai, etc. He leads them from the front. He rallies them. He inspires them. He brings out the best in them. They trust him and would gladly die for him.

    He's versatile. He doesn't rely on the awe or worship of his own men. As a child he rallied infantry who had previously looked down on him, getting them to cooperate and help turn the tide of the whole battle. This led to Ouki giving him his own unit. As a 1000 man commander, he rallied one quarter of Duke Hyou's whole army, when it was on the brink of annihilation, and brought it to victory. You know where Ten was? Watching Shin, shitting herself at his ability to get 10,000 to suddenly follow him. Because he's a leader. She's not. She's a strategist.
    That's more on Shin's stat being shit than Ten's stat being good. The idea that her stat is 'nearly as good as Ouki' is retarded and blatant exaggeration.

    Who knows, Ten probably has the capabilities to lead 10 000 men- not in the capacity as a general but as a strategist. She chooses to work under Shin as that is her dream to be able to support him. For what it's worth she does most of the actual leadership stuff- delegation, planning, administration, and has a generally greater sense of responsibility.

    Shin's ability to draw in capable men is charisma, nothing to do with leadership. Hitler could draw in talented men with his charisma but he was documented to be a shit statesman. Trump is incredibly charismatic but a laughable leader. Leadership is the ability to make the right decisions for the overall welfare of the team or the greater objective, the ability to make the best use of your underlings, not the ability to rile up a crowd. Alot of what you are considering 'leadership' for Shin is charisma, which Hara has logically considered separate.

    Shin has his moments of brilliance in times of difficulty but fact of the matter is on a general basis he basically self-destructed after Sanyou when made to lead 1k men on daily basis on his own without Kyoukai or Ten. And as for where Ten was during the Keisha battle, she reorgnised the group when they were crumbling under Mangoku's zombies, not crapping herself in awe as you seem to remember for some reason.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    That's more on Shin's stat being shit than Ten's stat being good.

    My complaint was that Ten's leadership stat is closer to Ouki's than to Shin's. I'm not sure whether I think Ten's stat is too high (it probably is), but the problem is mostly Ouki's and Shin's stats.



    Who knows, Ten probably has the capabilities to lead 10 000 men- not in the capacity as a general but as a strategist. She chooses to work under Shin as that is her dream to be able to support him.
    Coming up with a strategy for 10,000 people isn't leading them. It's coming up with a strategy. Shin actually led 10,000 people, shortly after Ten saw the battlefield for the first time.

    And as for where Ten was during the Keisha battle, she reorgnised the group when they were crumbling under Mangoku's zombies, not crapping herself in awe as you seem to remember for some reason.
    Ten was shitting herself while Shin was rallying the Duke's troops. You're thinking of 9 chapters later, when she helped to reorganize the HSU. That actually was a leadership feat, it just wasn't anywhere remotely near the level of Shin's feat.


    Shin's ability to draw in capable men is charisma, nothing to do with leadership. Hitler could draw in talented men with his charisma but he was documented to be a shit statesman. Trump is incredibly charismatic but a laughable leader. Leadership is the ability to make the right decisions for the overall welfare of the team or the greater objective, the ability to make the best use of your underlings, not the ability to rile up a crowd. Alot of what you are considering 'leadership' for Shin is charisma, which Hara has logically considered separate.
    Shin has his moments of brilliance in times of difficulty but fact of the matter is on a general basis he basically self-destructed after Sanyou when made to lead 1k men on daily basis on his own without Kyoukai or Ten.
    Shin's problem after Sanyou had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with leadership. You could put the greatest leader in the world there and it wouldn't have helped. Shin needed a strategist. That's why Mouten found him a strategist who had no leadership experience or ability whatsoever. You're confusing leadership (in which charisma is one factor) with strategy, which is something completely unrelated that Ten excels at.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

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