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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    All it shows is Qin winning on step 1. Remember Riboku knew this was bait so i think he'll have a response ready.

    Makou vs Batei

    Makou looks like a weirdo though lol.

    Don't really see what Batei did wrong here. He went in to save his men. Unless you were expecting him to come up with some Coalition Arc Moubu-tier tactic.
    Batei heading out part I actually liked. Kisui turning all 30k of his men in that direction what I found stupid. And as soon as they do that, Makou conveniently hits them from the front without anyone noticing?

  2. #22
    Mouten was a bait here, just as I predicted.

  3. #23
    I think Kisui will regroup sooner rather than later. The surprise flank might net them a couple of thousand soldiers but not much more, Mouten needs to take down Batei for this to be a decisive engagement.

    Riboku needs to take advantage of Qin's weakened center where he now enjoys a large numerical advantage. It's a nice opportunity for Shin to shine.

  4. #24
    PIERCE THE HEAVENS Bold's Avatar
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    Some unusual panels this week.

    particuarly this top panel which i really like



    solid chapter

  5. #25
    This could end quite badly for ousen.

    Let's look at the situation: ousen managed to manipulate kisui so that he could attack him from behind. However to do this he:

    1) sent a consistent portion of his main army in a position where he can't assist them easily

    2) greatly reduce the numbers of his main army

    what I think would realistically happen is this




    as you can see, Riboku has Futei and Kaine on his left wing. As we know, those two are accomplished horseman, and their cavalry has a notoriously high mobility. Riboku could send them on the left, and incuneate them beetween makou and ousen main army. While kisui is in a bad spot, we know that Rigan forces main strenght is morale: they won't collapse easily.

    Makou could very well be hit from behind while he is still fighting against kisui, and end up surrounded.

    So Ousen would have 2 options: either send more men to assist makou, furthering reducing his numerical inferiority against riboku, or not doing it and losing makou.

    Even if he doesn't help makou, he now has only 38k men, while makou has only 20k + 5k of gaku ka unit. Riboku could capitalize with numerical superiority either in the left or center.
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    Last edited by behindthelight; 06-17-2017 at 05:59 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    Anyway, Riboku better be smiling...
    Scout: Report! Kisui-sama try to move all his soldiers to take out the 5.000 men of Qin's left wing and Makou army of 20.000 men joined the attack from their rear! They are requesting reinforcement!

    Riboku: What?! You mean that Kisui who has potential to be a great general think he needs all of his 30.000 men to deal with 5.000 men instead of preparing for the obvious enemy reinforcement that will come to his way??

    for those who needs things to be spelled.. this is a joke obviously

  7. #27
    EDIT: I didn't see that giantbiceps already posted what was my prediction, sorry XD

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by behindthelight View Post
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    This could end quite badly for ousen.

    Let's look at the situation: ousen managed to manipulate kisui so that he could attack him from behind. However to do this he:

    1) sent a consistent portion of his main army in a position where he can't assist them easily

    2) greatly reduce the numbers of his main army

    what I think would realistically happen is this




    as you can see, Riboku has Futei and Kaine on his left wing. As we know, those two are accomplished horseman, and their cavalry has a notoriously high mobility. Riboku could send them on the left, and incuneate them beetween makou and ousen main army. While kisui is in a bad spot, we know that Rigan forces main strenght is morale: they won't collapse easily.

    Makou could very well be hit from behind while he is still fighting against kisui, and end up surrounded.

    So Ousen would have 2 options: either send more men to assist makou, furthering reducing his numerical inferiority against riboku, or not doing it and losing makou.

    Even if he doesn't help makou, he now has only 38k men, while makou has only 20k + 5k of gaku ka unit. Riboku could capitalize with numerical superiority either in the left or center.
    and that's why Ousen left HSU at the very back. To yet again flank counter offensive from Riboku. While Ousen will hold the centre field vs Riboku's main army.

    While Shin might be dumb, we can't really deny that HSU with Shin and Kyoukai + Ten kinda have a superior breakthrough power compared to Mouten or Ouhon's unit, especially since they are not exactly a 5k men unit

  9. #29
    Dai Don Dedede's Avatar
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    Well Kisui's reasoning did make sense. If he kept on waiting he was risking Batei and his cavalry dying, and the rest is already explained on panel.

    If anyone is at fault here it's Riboku's army in the center for letting such a huge portion of Ousen's center army wandering freely around the battlefield. If Makou had come alone I guess it could have been reasoned that Ousen put them on the left part of the center army and that they were overwhelmingly strong and managed to unlock weapons after dealing substantial damage and pushing back the Zhao, but 20k is over a third of Ousen's center army, they should've never gotten that far unless Riboku is taking a gamble to deal more damage.

    Mouten did well and it was really nice seeing his part, wish it had lasted longer, like maybe holding on one day and suggesting this plan to Ousen who'd have said that it was what he intended to do from the get go. Well I guess Mouten can always shine by saying that he knew he was being used as bait and pulled that off on purpose even though Ousen actually wanted to use him like he did with Heki back in Sanyou

  10. #30
    Banned CutieKai's Avatar
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    How did the guys in the centre suddenly appeared put of the blue, when the war just started. They shouldn't have had enough time.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dai Don Dedede View Post
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    Well Kisui's reasoning did make sense. If he kept on waiting he was risking Batei and his cavalry dying, and the rest is already explained on panel.

    If anyone is at fault here it's Riboku's army in the center for letting such a huge portion of Ousen's center army wandering freely around the battlefield. If Makou had come alone I guess it could have been reasoned that Ousen put them on the left part of the center army and that they were overwhelmingly strong and managed to unlock weapons after dealing substantial damage and pushing back the Zhao, but 20k is over a third of Ousen's center army, they should've never gotten that far unless Riboku is taking a gamble to deal more damage.
    to be fair, if Ousen just focus on defending, his 30.000 troops should be enough to hold quite a lot. It's similar to what happen in Sanyou with Mougou. Only focus on defending and it will help reducing casualties, etc. From the position (Ousen in front, Makou 2nd and HSU at the back), it's much more likely that Ousen moves first to the centre of the battle field to block Riboku's interference, and then Makou moves to the left and attack Kisui army. This will probably be told next chapter, along with Riboku's response.

    Of course Riboku will probably send reinforcement to help Kisui, but HSU will then move again to the left to attack the incoming reinforcement from Riboku.

    The catch is, Riboku won't think Ousen will risk his position by holding out the centre battle field with only 30.000 men (vs Riboku's 60.000) considering his cautious/safe play attitude that he display so far

    Mouten did well and it was really nice seeing his part, wish it had lasted longer, like maybe holding on one day and suggesting this plan to Ousen who'd have said that it was what he intended to do from the get go. Well I guess Mouten can always shine by saying that he knew he was being used as bait and pulled that off on purpose even though Ousen actually wanted to use him like he did with Heki back in Sanyou
    tbh Mouten being able to force a general to commit an all out offensive like that should already be great enough considering it's a 5k vs 30k. In a way, Makou flanking Kisui won't be as effective had Kisui isn't forced to move his troops to his right by Mouten.

  12. #32
    Banned Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutie kai View Post
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    How did the guys in the centre suddenly appeared put of the blue, when the war just started. They shouldn't have had enough time.
    that's one thing i keep seeing in this battle. People appearing out of nowhere and starting to slaughter their enemies before they can even say "argh". Or even Makou moving all the way there without Riboku noticing. That's just weird.

    we can only assume riboku has noticed in time to send reinforcements, or it'd be ridiculous

  13. #33
    Does Riboku even need to send reinforcements? Unless he has zero confidence in Kisui it's still 25K vs 28~29K. If Kisui manages to save Batei, it should be a fairly even matchup.

    Unless Riboku doesn't have confidence he can beat Ousen and Shin when he has 22K extra men and four decent commanders (Futei, Kaine, Kinmou, Gyo'un), he should just go for the center. He has enough men to flank or pincer Ousen's army.

  14. #34
    I don't really see anyone teleporting or stuff like that. The cavalry units are fast so it's only natural that from the moment you see them there is very few time before they hit you.

    The end of the chapter talks about infantry units from the center, but they are not close in any way, they are only behind the 5000 horsemen who are themselves behind the first 5000 horsemen. Only scouts were able to see them.

    And as I already said there is no way Riboku didn't foresee this. As already pointed out by Behindthelight it's likely to be the reason why Kaine and Futei are on his right wing with their cavalry. Next chapter will be Riboku doing something, definitely. Either he will try to take advantage of the lack of balance in the center or he'll send Futei/Kaine to help Kisui.

    I can't really see Riboku or Ousen winning this battle, they are so even that they are extremely likely to reach a stalemate even if some commanders die on both side. The difference that exist through the number of soldiers will be balanced by the quality of the Qin commanders
    Last edited by Whysoserious; 06-17-2017 at 08:40 PM.

  15. #35
    The fact that Ousen is manhandling Kishu with ease makes me fear that this is probably a hype for Ousen only meant to be used as a pedestal for Riboku.

    Had it not been Ousen who crushed Kishu I would have expected a more even match between Ousen and Riboku, but since that's the case I expect Riboku to soundly defeat Ousen in later chapters. Isn't it how this manga has always been? Put a character on a spotlight only to be crushed by another.

    I really didn't wish this fate befallen on Ousen, but oh well it seems exactly to be going in that direction.

    Also in real life flanks don't reinforce another flanks that fast. Battles take hours to be resolved and we have to understand that there are bound to be exaggerations in manga. Riboku must have noticed it and it will be explained in the next chapter.


    BTW, Heki vs Mouten.

    Who makes a better bait in Ousen's eyes?
    Last edited by coocoodas; 06-17-2017 at 08:25 PM.

  16. #36
    good chapter, but really early



    Batei being stalled by two fodder spears, is this the part where I bitch about Oda's I mean Hara's powerlevel inconsistencies?



    Dat smirk

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    All in all: oh how the migthy have fallen:





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    Lmao so Mouten was led astray by reports, who the hell is responsible for ascertaining shit back at Qin's high command.
    I was at first too but then considering that unlike us who know that Batei is a complete moron, the HSU don't really have the means to know the same. That first day ambush made Batei look somewhat impressive although the maneuvering was mostly Ryuutou's and although Ryuutou was out for the riverbank attack, HSU wouldn't know that he gave orders to Batei for the good defense until it broke down via HSU flank and Batei was exposed (to us mostly I assume, don't think the HSU paid attention that much).

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  17. #37
    Cheif of Wisdom Amol's Avatar
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    This chapter annoyed me greatly.
    Hara seems to forget that Zhao side has things called eyes .
    How the fuck can thousands of soldiers snuck up on them?
    Ousen must have teleporting device or maybe something that reduces IQ level of enemy.
    Because whatever happened in this chapter doesn't make Ousen look smart. It makes Zhao dumber as this is just bullshit plot .
    I swear if next chapter doesn't have Riboku smiling and telling that he knew what Ousen was doing I will throw something. Because Riboku has to be the shittest GG in the world not to notice center of enemy moving towards his left. His own center should have intercepted Makou's army giving Kisui chance to wipe out Mouten's army. Fault solely lies with Riboku here not Kisui.
    Things have been way too easy Qin for my liking in this arc. Way way too way.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amol View Post
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    This chapter annoyed me greatly.
    Hara seems to forget that Zhao side has things called eyes .
    How the fuck can thousands of soldiers snuck up on them?
    Ousen must have teleporting device or maybe something that reduces IQ level of enemy.
    Because whatever happened in this chapter doesn't make Ousen look smart. It makes Zhao dumber as this is just bullshit plot .
    I swear if next chapter doesn't have Riboku smiling and telling that he knew what Ousen was doing I will throw something. Because Riboku has to be the shittest GG in the world not to notice center of enemy moving towards his left. His own center should have intercepted Makou's army giving Kisui chance to wipe out Mouten's army. Fault solely lies with Riboku here not Kisui.
    Things have been way too easy Qin for my liking in this arc. Way way too way.
    ALL OF THESE. The fuck man, are the Zhao fighting with their brains turned off or something. This is ridiculous by any measure. How can 5000 men of the Qin centre army just fucking sneak on top of kisui's rear like that without anyone noticing If this battle keeps up going this way then it would be the worst battle in the entire manga. The fucking pis/cis is just too much.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Amol View Post
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    This chapter annoyed me greatly.
    Hara seems to forget that Zhao side has things called eyes .
    How the fuck can thousands of soldiers snuck up on them?
    Ousen must have teleporting device or maybe something that reduces IQ level of enemy.
    Because whatever happened in this chapter doesn't make Ousen look smart. It makes Zhao dumber as this is just bullshit plot .
    I swear if next chapter doesn't have Riboku smiling and telling that he knew what Ousen was doing I will throw something. Because Riboku has to be the shittest GG in the world not to notice center of enemy moving towards his left. His own center should have intercepted Makou's army giving Kisui chance to wipe out Mouten's army. Fault solely lies with Riboku here not Kisui.
    Things have been way too easy Qin for my liking in this arc. Way way too way.
    But Qin have gained very little lol. Neither side has of yet, been able to deliver a telling blow to the other.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by cutie kai View Post
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    How did the guys in the centre suddenly appeared put of the blue, when the war just started. They shouldn't have had enough time.
    Well, its not teleporting. I guess the logical explanation is ousen already predicted what kisui will do.

    Kisui is a scrub anyway, RIP

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