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  1. #1
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    CyK 5: gn versus Nord

    All players have 150k troops
    All of these guys are meeting for the first time, so no prior experience in dealing with a certain enemy i.e. Tou knowing Reiou likes to use pincers or Ouki fighting Houken.
    In character: Characters are in character except when it severely compromises team synergy i.e. Houken wanting to challenge any strong general on his team. However, if it's their strategy/tactical quirk, like Ousen's refusal to straight up fight a competent opponent or Kanki not keeping his allies informed of his moves during battle, they keep it.
    Synergy: Characters that have canon synergy/familiarity keep it, like Hakurei and Kouyoku or Kaine and Futei.
    Elites: elites can do independent actions but they cannot be assigned to another character. You can have Karin's elites assist Bajio in an objective but he cannot lead them.
    Knowledge: No knowledge since they are meeting for the first time
    Burning to restricted to Raido and Zenou only

    Strategy Layout:

    1) picture and description of your initial deployment (includes troop deployment spreads, no clauses here but you must provide visual aid on where you want your troops to move to or what zone they will defend, make sure its consistent with your clauses)

    2) clauses (Each general gets one clause as their "must do" action, they are in character otherwise. To elaborate, I will consider any clause a high priority action that the character needs to do no matter what, that ignores their character. Like if you had a clause that said Ousen must duel Moubu, he will duel Moubu regardless of his personality. Only after the character accomplishes the feat will they revert back to their original character. Also, please keep clauses as one sentence: I will accept additional actions only if they are in the immediate vicinity, like "sweep up the area around the hill of enemies and then secure it for my forces" or "fortify the mountain and prep for a downhill charge if necessary". I will not accept things like "secure the mountain and then head to the forest (which is in a different area) to burn it" and run on sentences.)

    * you must designate a commander in chief of your forces who will have 3 clauses and two vice generals with 2 clauses each

    you can also do team clauses:

    CIC = 3 clause
    Vice = 2 clause
    General = 1 clause


    2 general as a team = 2 clause
    3 general as a team = 3 clause


    Vice + a general as a team = 3 clause
    Vice + 2 general as a team = 3 clause
    CIC + generals as a team = 3 clause


    3) prep (everyone gets 2 days prep for each match for free and 3 extra clauses for your overall army, like "arm all my soldiers with bows and spears (Attackers do not have prep unless they bought some and defenders get 3 days instead of 2 for free.). You could make it specific though, like "have Raido teach Gakuei's army the flame hare". Remember, your imagination is the limit but you also want your readers to believe you can do what ever you want to prep for, like you can't build catapults in two days with a bunch of meatheads. Also, prep is limited only to your initial deployment area, so you can't scout ahead or do things outside of your initial deployment area while in prep.)


    Map:





    @Nordlending; is blue and @gn_x00; is red. PM me your strats in two days

    Teams:

    Nord-0
    Gekishin 60 Nord
    Ordo 40 Nord
    Kisui 20 Nord
    Mougou 20 Nord
    Mangoku 20 Nord
    Keisha 35 Nord
    Riboku 75 Nord
    Gakuei 3 Nord
    Ryuutou 1 gn (trade)
    5 points prep days
    10 * 500 # 5000 poison poison dogs
    10 * 500 # 5000 mountain climbers
    10 * 500# 5000 special Zhao Cavalry

    Gn-0
    Earl Shi 52 gn
    Ouki 100 gn
    Houken 55 gn
    Gaimou 41 gn
    Kyouen 23 gn
    Seikai 15 gn
    SBK 2 Nord (trade)
    Kaioku 8 gn
    Heki 1 gn
    Fast Cavalry 2 points : 2000
    Fire Archers 1 point : 1000
    Chariots 1 point : 100 (?)

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
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  2. #2
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    Why do I always end up in the same bracket as Houken.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  3. #3
    Riboku and Houken fighting each other 2 star cross lovers

  4. #4
    sent my strat.

  5. #5
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    strats:

    @Nordlending;

    Prep- Have Riboku, Gekishin, and Keisha (called the council) sit down and plan their whole strategy and different viable tactics for the duration of the prep.
    - get the best means of communication.
    - Set up an evacuation plan from HQ just in case.


    Yellow Army: 70 000 + 5 000 Fast Cavalry + 5000 Poison Dogs.
    Commander in Chief: Riboku
    All commanders will control the battlefield from a long distance away.
    - Use the council to the best of their ability destroy the enemy through tactics.
    - Recall Ordo and use him on Yellow battlefield if no one comes to him.


    Vice: Gekishin
    - Assist the council with his observation.
    - Focus the use of Fast Cavalry and Poison dog to the place where it will be the most important.


    Subordinate: Mangoku


    Grey Army:
    Vice: Keisha
    Stay at HQ and use messengers to relay orders to subordinates with the quickest means of communications .
    - Assist the council with his instinct.
    Subordinate: Kisui - Rouse the troops for battle.
    Subordinate: Gakuei
    Subordinate: Ryuutou


    Black Army: 25 000 + 5 000 Mountain.
    Bad luck charm: Ordo Fortify and defend.


    Blue Homeless association.
    Homeless Champion: Mougou: - Go to the pit and challenge the passing enemies to a fight.




    @gn_x00;

    Deployment


    All generals are to use Fast Cavalry if they are available in their army

    Centre Army 70.000

    Ouki [Commander In Chief] 40k
    10.000 infantry
    30.000 cavalry (including 1.000 fast cavalry)

    Earl Shi 30k + 100 chariots
    5.000 infantry
    5.000 cavalry archers
    20.000 cavalry (including 250 fast cavalry)
    100 chariots

    Left Army (1) 10.000
    Seikai 10k
    7.000 heavy infantry
    2.000 archers
    1.000 poison archers

    Left Army (2) 30.000
    Gaimou [Vice General] & Kaioku 30k
    20.000 cavalry (including 250 fast cavalry)
    10.000 cavalry archers

    Right Army (1) 10.000
    SBK & Houken 3k
    3.000 Cavalry (including 250 fast cavalry)

    Heki 7k
    7.000 Heavy Infantry

    Right Army (2) 30.000
    Kyouen [Vice General] 30k
    15.000 Heavy Cavalry (including 250 fast cavalry)
    15.000 cavalry archers


    Preparations
    - Every armies are to fortify Ouki, Seikai and Hekis positions with barricades and traps. Seikais mountain is to be filled with flags and dummies to make the troop numbers appear bigger than it actually is.
    - All generals and their aides (in case theyre too dumb) are to set communication method with flag in Ouki, Seikai and Kyouens mountain, however Kyouens is only used in emergency
    - prepare some rocks that you can roll towards the enemy's vanguard from Seikai's mountain


    Clauses
    Ouki [Commander In Chief]- Design the battle plan as a whole: send some scouts, coordinate with Left and Right army (flags, messenger horses, etc)
    - After initial plan (Blue arrows) is complete or if the enemy is not attacking at all, is to switch into attacking (Red arrows).
    - Adjust the plan according to the positions of known enemy generals locations and be wary of enemy generals which hasn't shown themselves; consider to abandon the plan if it is not effective based on enemy position(s).

    Earl Shi
    - do not be overly aggressive until we switch to all out attacking (red arrows)

    Seikai
    - give signal about the enemys movements from the mountain.

    Gaimou & Kaioku
    - Depending on Seikais information about enemy movements, is to ask Oukis for reinforcement.
    - After Ouki give the signal to switch into all out attacking, Gaimou and Kaioku are to combine with Kyouen and SBK team and become a single army to wipe out the enemy in the forest and go attack the enemy flank.
    - Be mindful of enemys traps in the forest if based on enemy movement, they are hiding in the forests

    SBK, Houken & Heki
    - Defend barricade in the designated area
    - Make the enemy know the location of the defense, however not to be too obvious
    - Depending on scouts informations about enemy movements, is to ask Oukis for reinforcement.

    Kyouen
    - Hide the troops inside the forest, or in the mountain, wherever is easier and attack the enemys rear attacking SBK
    - Use the flags prepared in the mountain to communicate with Ouki in case of emergency enemy movement.

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  6. #6
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    I don't think I am losing this. The main battlefield will be on the Plains while most of Gn's army is flopping in the forest. My guys will quite easy be able to deduce how many of Gn troops is in the forest planning to attack from there.

    Other than that. Ouki is good, but he is completely outclassed here. He is going to be outplayed here.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  7. #7
    uh... I have a hard time seeing Nord's numbers.

    80k in plains, 30k in the mountain, so the rest is 40k in the forest right?

    Left Battlefield:
    nothing will happen here. Both Ordo and Gaimou will be relocated.

    Plain Battlefield:
    Numbers are about even. 80k Nord vs my 70k.
    No general in the army itself for Nord, while mine has Earl Shi, Ouki can take the field himself if needed
    Riboku, Gekishin and Keisha is in HQ while Ouki is in HQ

    Forest Battlefield
    Numbers are even. 40k Nord vs my 40k.
    Keisha, the "CIC" of forest army is in HQ, while the ones in the forest are Kisui, Gakuei and Ryuutou
    my side has Kyouen hiding in the back of the forest and/or mountain area, while Heki will try to make his position known.

    In the plan area, Earl Shi is told not to be too aggressive during the initial plan, so he'll only do normal skirmishes. I don't think there will be deciding factor for a while. If Riboku's side will somehow be able to pressure Ouki and Earl Shi army, then I believe Gaimou will be called to the plain area, especially since Seikai can confirm nothing is in left battle field, Ordo's mountain can be seen from the plain, so it's obvious the bulk of the enemy's troops are not in the forest anyway.

    I believe the forest team will do their job right. Gray team's arrow indicate that they will try to go out to the plain and flank the center army, however one of their arrows are close to Heki's position and they will be forced to deal with Heki, considering being pincered is going to be bad. Kyouen will wipe the portion that will try to attack Heki team. Keisha is in no position to sense the trap as it's too far away.

    Even if they ignore the forest team, Ouki will just adjust the plan the moment Nord's forest team shows themself and Kyouen & Heki team will hit their rear.
    Last edited by gn_x00; 06-03-2017 at 01:40 AM.

  8. #8
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    hard to call this one, Nord's strat is a bit vague and he shoots himself in the foot a bit by making the commanders stay out of trouble but try to control battles from a distance. gn has a good all out attack phase but I don't see him taking out Nord's forest team clear cut. Riboku and Gekishin could get the better of Earl Shi and Ouki in the plains maneuvering but nothing obviously conclusive. I think this could end in a [draw] since Nord keeps his vital generals out of harm.

    @Cyri; @Crispinianus; @Aliasniamor; @Zentos; vote plz

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    gn has a good all out attack phase but I don't see him taking out Nord's forest team clear cut.
    uhm... detail please, otherwise i don't know how to argue this.

    anyway, my army has an initial plan of trying to trap enemy's forest team with Heki as bait. And Nord's forest team has arrow pretty close to Heki's position, so obviously they're going to take the bait.

    We have seen Riboku taking a hard time to control battle which is further to himself when he is fighting Gekishin, the same thing will happen here with Keisha, especially when the HQ will be trying to outmanuver Ouki and Earl Shi with long distance warfare instead of concentrating about the forest.

    essentially the CIC of Nord forest team will be Ryuutou. While he might understand that it's dangerous, they need to take out Heki team or else their rear will be attacked when they go out of the forest (according to the arrows). Kyouen just need to hit the flank when they are busy dealing with Houken. The "CIC" of my forest team is Kyouen which is famous from his aggressiveness and we have seen in Sanyou how he is perfectly fitted as a commander in forest terrain. so why won't it be conclusive enough?

    Riboku and Gekishin could get the better of Earl Shi and Ouki in the plains maneuvering but nothing obviously conclusive. I think this could end in a [draw] since Nord keeps his vital generals out of harm.
    not sure where you think Gaimou will be going. Is he going to follow the plan to join forest team, or will he join Ouki because Ouki has some trouble and adjust the plan?

    Either Gaimou is helping Ouki in the centre army, or Gaimou joining the forest team and tilt the balance of forest team even further to my favor.

    tldr; While the centre army might be harder, I can't see why my forest team won't be conclusive. They will take out Nord's forest team, and then they will either attack the army lank or attack the HQ with coordination with Ouki, concluding the battle in my favor.
    Last edited by gn_x00; 06-03-2017 at 11:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    uhm... detail please, otherwise i don't know how to argue this.

    anyway, my army has an initial plan of trying to trap enemy's forest team with Heki as bait. And Nord's forest team has arrow pretty close to Heki's position, so obviously they're going to take the bait.

    We have seen Riboku taking a hard time to control battle which is further to himself when he is fighting Gekishin, the same thing will happen here with Keisha, especially when the HQ will be trying to outmanuver Ouki and Earl Shi with long distance warfare instead of concentrating about the forest.

    essentially the CIC of Nord forest team will be Ryuutou. While he might understand that it's dangerous, they need to take out Heki team or else their rear will be attacked when they go out of the forest (according to the arrows). Kyouen just need to hit the flank when they are busy dealing with Houken. The "CIC" of my forest team is Kyouen which is famous from his aggressiveness and we have seen in Sanyou how he is perfectly fitted as a commander in forest terrain. so why won't it be conclusive enough?
    Let's just say I'm really iffy on Kyouen, Kaioku, Heki, and SBK's ability to beat Kisui and Ryuutou backed by Keisha in the forest.

    not necessarily, he was crushing all of Gekishin's probes but his reaction time to the further ones were more lacking. Keisha's main problem will be that he can't use his trapping instinct while in the HQ for long range but Kisui/Ryuutou should be more than able to fill that while Keisha watches their backs.

    My iffiest issue with Kyouen is while he has the aggression and brains, thick forest =/= more lightly forested mountainous terrain with open areas. I'd say visibility (of his arrows if he gets them off high) is his biggest issue here.

    not sure where you think Gaimou will be going. Is he going to follow the plan to join forest team, or will he join Ouki because Ouki has some trouble and adjust the plan?

    Either Gaimou is helping Ouki in the centre army, or Gaimou joining the forest team and tilt the balance of forest team even further to my favor.

    tldr; While the centre army might be harder, I can't see why my forest team won't be conclusive. They will take out Nord's forest team, and then they will either attack the army lank or attack the HQ with coordination with Ouki, concluding the battle in my favor.
    I assume Gaimou and Kaioku are to head to the right and reinforce your forest team? I don't see how Gaimou will be of much use unless Kisui/Gakuei are stupid enough to challenge him.

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    I assume Gaimou and Kaioku are to head to the right and reinforce your forest team?
    okay
    Let's just say I'm really iffy on Kyouen, Kaioku, Heki, and SBK's ability to beat Kisui and Ryuutou backed by Keisha in the forest.
    Kaioku has better brain than Ryuutou or Kisui or even Keisha
    SBK has more real life experience than all of them.
    Heki has shown himself as a well rounded general which isn't hindered by terrain
    Kyouen has his arrows to do the commanding in marco scale.

    and they also got Houken and Gaimou to help the forest team apparently
    I don't see how Gaimou will be of much use unless Kisui/Gakuei are stupid enough to challenge him.
    while there won't be any duel, there's nothing stopping Gaimou either to wreck the enemy's soldiers.
    The enemy won't be hiding in the forest because they try to go out of the forest and flank my plain team (see Nord's map arrows), it won't really be hard to check where they are. While they might be able to try running away after they see my troops, there's no idiots in my army who will let them go

    and it's not like ambushes when my army chase them will have great effect with Houken and Gaimou crushing anyone who jump out to ambush them

    We're also talking about Houken who wonders into enemy camp in forest for night walk and pretty much solo thousands of enemy soldiers lol

    My iffiest issue with Kyouen is while he has the aggression and brains, thick forest =/= more lightly forested mountainous terrain with open areas. I'd say visibility (of his arrows if he gets them off high) is his biggest issue here.
    Bayou is considered a heavy forested area, and we see how all of Qin armies are perfectly able to see the HQ flag (until they go too far like Moubu), they should be able to see the arrows since they know it will be coming.

    not necessarily, he was crushing all of Gekishin's probes but his reaction time to the further ones were more lacking. Keisha's main problem will be that he can't use his trapping instinct while in the HQ for long range but Kisui/Ryuutou should be more than able to fill that while Keisha watches their backs.
    yeah, it was a probe, not a main attack. and his reaction time is noticeably lacking. What would happen had Gekishin try an attack in that direction? it will be hard or even impossible for Riboku to deflect that (although it was pointless since the HQ isn't there)

  12. #12
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    @gn_x00;
    I don't think that Nord's forest team will be facing Heki, the arrow that re-directs them into the middle is 1/4 or 1/5 of the map away from Heki.

    Also, are you forgetting about his "Recall Ordo and use him on Yellow battlefield if no one comes to him." clause? Your middle team is getting hit from 3 sides.

    Won't vote until I get more details.

  13. #13
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    Will come back to this tonight.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    @gn_x00;
    I don't think that Nord's forest team will be facing Heki, the arrow that re-directs them into the middle is 1/4 or 1/5 of the map away from Heki.
    so, they won't notice Heki at all? i'll start arguing with this premise that you set up.

    Also, are you forgetting about his "Recall Ordo and use him on Yellow battlefield if no one comes to him." clause? Your middle team is getting hit from 3 sides.
    my middle team won't be getting hit from 3 sides at all. Ouki also have clause "Adjust the plan according to the positions of known enemy generals locations".

    Ouki will notice fast that no one will come to Seikai's mountain because Seikai can see nothing is coming from the top of the mountain. Ouki will switch Gaimou's order to forest team or to join the center fast if Ordo is called there fast. My team set up the flags to communicate with each other like in Bayou, they relay orders instantly since they just need to change the flags and you can see it from the other side.

    Now if Nord's forest team will just ignore Heki, then it's a simple thing, Kyouen and all the forest team will either go hit the enemy's flank or even hitting the HQ.

    So with Earl Shi, Ouki, Gaimou and Kyouen plus Houken hitting the enemy on the same plan area (one from front, and another from flank) then you think they will be able to survive with just long distance warfare?

    Kyouen can even decide to go to the HQ, and Nord's "relocate HQ" clause take play, then the central army will be without anyone to command while the HQ is relocating. An army without commander is an easy pray as seen with Bayou Moubu vs Rihaku. Mind you, this is not a single Moubu vs no commander army. This is Ouki, Gaimou, Earl Shi, Kyouen and Houken. Every one of those 5 are generals who has great feat at offensive.

    TLDR; there's no way Riboku can take out Earl Shi and Ouki army before all my other generals will start hammering from the flank or even the HQ itself. Worst case Scenario, Ouki just need to defend in the fortified mountain before switching to offensive when every piece is ready

    @Zentos; I don't know how you thinks the forest team will be able to join plain team without a battle without the whole Nord's team getting wrecked at all.

  15. #15
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    @gn_x00;
    I never said your team wouldn't attack, I just said that there won't be a forest battle.
    I also never said who'd win, which is why I didn't vote, I just said that the clauses implied that your middle team would get hit from 3 sides, before your army reacted. Didn't even say they would get wiped out or anything, just that they'd be facing a triple danger.

    I'll listen to what Nord has to say.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    @gn_x00;
    I never said your team wouldn't attack, I just said that there won't be a forest battle.
    I also never said who'd win, which is why I didn't vote, I just said that the clauses implied that your middle team would get hit from 3 sides, before your army reacted. Didn't even say they would get wiped out or anything, just that they'd be facing a triple danger.

    I'll listen to what Nord has to say.
    oh okay

    let's just say i gave you details what happen if the forest battle didn't occur at all. Not that a forest battle would end in Nord's favor either though... since Nord's forest team's arrows indicate that they are forced to deal with Heki and getting hit by Kyouen otherwise what would happen is the collapse of the whole army formation because my forest team will attack the plain team without any real check.

  17. #17
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    Imma wait for Nord before I go at it with gn again.

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  18. #18
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    hard to call this one, Nord's strat is a bit vague and he shoots himself in the foot a bit by making the commanders stay out of trouble but try to control battles from a distance. gn has a good all out attack phase but I don't see him taking out Nord's forest team clear cut. Riboku and Gekishin could get the better of Earl Shi and Ouki in the plains maneuvering but nothing obviously conclusive. I think this could end in a [draw] since Nord keeps his vital generals out of harm.

    @Cyri; @Crispinianus; @Aliasniamor; @Zentos; vote plz
    How am I shooting myself in the foot? Are you stupid? They are the commanders of the army. They can see the whole battlefield from there. Try to control it? They are controlling it. Its not that far, and messages can easily signaled. They can see the enemy troop movement easily enough. They will put up some flags, signal the troops, and they will obey. They are the position Keisha had when he fought Duke Hyou, and he was a lot more successful than when he fought with his troops. This is the position Karin had. This is the position Mougou had. This is the position Riboku had. I am not using them as warriors. I am using them as Tacticians.

    The plains will be won. Keisha is there for a reason, and that is to assist Gekishin and Riboku. The plains battle will be Rinboku/Gekishin/Keisha vs Ouki. Ouki is good, but he isn't that good. He will be outplayed. Earl Shi and Gaimou won't matter much. Sure they are strong, but they are utilized as a fighting force, and not as tacticians. They can handle the micro vs Ordo and Such to a minor degree, but they are loosing the macro battle quite spectacularly.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  19. #19
    Ouhon has show more impressive feats than Ordo in micro tactical department, and yet Earl Shi completely read him and stomp him despite the intelligence difference

    Keisha will be distracted with center battlefield that he won't solely focus his attention to forest battlefield. Making my forest team more flexibility

    Gaimou might not matter much in macro or micro tactics, but he has Kaioku who has shown a great feat to send important reinforcements where they are needed

    Ouki himself pretty much read everything that Chousou and every Zhao Generals throw at him. He even read Riboku's play without even seeing or knowing about Riboku.
    Had Riboku is confident in defeating Ouki, he won't need such a cowardly sneak attack to do it

  20. #20
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    I have to look into the forest battle a bit more. The first thing to be noted anyway, is that my forest army will move out before yours do. They are taking the role as defender until the blue arrow thing has been completed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Ouhon has show more impressive feats than Ordo in micro tactical department, and yet Earl Shi completely read him and stomp him despite the intelligence difference

    Keisha will be distracted with center battlefield that he won't solely focus his attention to forest battlefield. Making my forest team more flexibility

    Gaimou might not matter much in macro or micro tactics, but he has Kaioku who has shown a great feat to send important reinforcements where they are needed

    Ouki himself pretty much read everything that Chousou and every Zhao Generals throw at him. He even read Riboku's play without even seeing or knowing about Riboku.
    Had Riboku is confident in defeating Ouki, he won't need such a cowardly sneak attack to do it
    Keisha will counter this "flexibility" with the fact that the forest Comp has great synergy. They have all worked for Keisha. They know him, as he do them.

    Ouki isn't facing only Riboku. He is facing Riboku, Gekishin, and Keisha. Kaioku is well and good, but he arrives late, and he arrives as reinforcement. He won't have a good grasp over the situation, and by that point the situation is already heavily in my favor.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

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