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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    @gn_x00;
    Well, it's a really fun map and I didn't want anything boring...plus I'm really busy lately and I had to write it after a really long day, so some things weren't written as clear as they could be.
    the content isn't really confusing, but the presentation is lol

    might be much readable to have 3 separate map for 3 separate scenario if Void let it, but dunno if he will lol

  2. #42
    time to vote for Cyri
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    That's only because he wasn't her objective, she just had to get her elites to the other side. Even when she had the clear chance to take his head, she left and went to where Kanmei was.
    He also had Mouten and Ouhon save his ass with their intelligent flanking, Shin ain't doing that.
    you honestly think Karin could've taken Tou's head?

    Shin doesn't need to, because your forest army is going to flank Yotanwa's instead according to you. However, he's perfect for the power setup here as Cyri and you have clauses for team ups. He doesn't need to do anything intelligent like them (maybe except use that instinct that saved Ten in Kokuyou to alert Tou of a possible forest flank) but just support Tou in a fight.

    Kanou, Ranbi and Kouyoku have team up clauses, you're not splitting the 3 of them up.
    And so does Cyri, obviously I'm pairing off the obvious fights since there's a difference of power here. You honestly think that Shin will just watch while Tou is fighting three dudes? I'm doing you a favor giving Shin versus Kanou/Kouyoku while Tou fights Ranbihaku. It could be Tou no diffing Kouyoku (mind you, no Rinbukun weight)/Kanou while Shin holds on to Ranbihaku which is worse. Tou would make Ranbihaku a priority and parry the other two until Shin arrives to pick Kanou/Kouyoku away. It's not like the team up clause makes them dumb by ignoring Shin hacking at their backs while they try to hack at Tou's. At least I hope they aren't at stupid.

    Why are we even bothering with different units if they aren't worth shit?
    Cyri has:
    10k mounted archers vs my 15k
    30k light cavalry against 25k normal cavalry
    and on top of that I have 10k heavy cavalry, 5k Karin elites and the 5k Kouyoku unit.

    Not only do I have better numbers, the quality of my troops is massively ahead. It's not even fucking funny, I bet 5k Karin elites and the 5k Kouyoku unit would fuck up 30k light cavalry on their own.
    Like I said, it's a forest path and Tou/Shin are expected to lead from the front. If it was in the open plains, your troops would have the opportunity to make that difference matter while they maneuver around the fights. Here, your frontline will plow into Cyri's until they are stopped by Tou and Shin (who should be at the front) who will fight your frontline, causing the momentum to stop. It pretty much becomes a bottleneck with the majority of each army behind the fight a the pinch.

    Nope, that's not going to work. He's drawn a path where they will be going and the forest ain't it. You can't just assign a new strat to his army like that. Their paths are drawn and they will follow them.


    Apparently Gokei can't hold out with 65k + 20k flanking vs 110k, while defending 2 narrow forest paths with barricades and spikes, but Tou is just fine attacking with 40k vs 60k with a massive disparity in quality. Yeah, extremely objective.
    Kyou doesn't have a path drawn to the center but has a clause to pincer a found army, obviously she's going to be in character now for her movement and she's not dumb enough to bottleneck her forces to attack Gokei.

    Apparently Gokei is fine defending two bottlenecked paths from 110k but Karin's forces can crush Tou's forces with just a 20k difference in a slightly larger bottleneck path. Yeah, I'm extremely objective

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  3. #43
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    @Void;
    Right, so you insist on Shin taking on Kouyoku and Kanou, when in reality he's got an extreme fight either way against Kouyoku. If Kanou is in the mix, Shin is dying an early death and now you've got Tou in a 1v3.
    Also, I don't remember giving Karin and Choutou clauses not to fight. Karin is no pushover, she's 94, Tou isn't about to walk up to her and just take her head of cleanly.

    http://imgur.com/J2cXl5h The "7k" at Junsou (blue) army is 7k cavalry, the text got cut off.
    At least tell me if you agree with the above map, so I know if we're talking about the same things.

    I don't know where you see them fighting, but if Tou and Karin's battlefield is a bottleneck, Gokei will be defending against 1 enemy at a time from Yotanwa's army. Figuratively, of course, but the difference in width is massive. Both of them can't be bottlenecks.

    You still haven't addressed my point at all, because apparently all the special units and elites I have are worth shit. No, not even special units and elites, apparently light/normal/heavy cavalry makes no difference either.

    I'm not sure if you realised, but 40k vs 60k is 2:3 or a 0.67:1 ratio, while 85k vs 110k is 0.77:1.
    Not only does Gokei have better numerical odds, he's been told to play it safe, he has barricades and spikes, he's defending bottle necks and he has a flanking army to reduce pressure, but, somehow, he's gonna fall faster than Tou.
    Last edited by Zentos; 06-04-2017 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    @Void;
    Right, so you insist on Shin taking on Kouyoku and Kanou, when in reality he's got an extreme fight either way against Kouyoku. If Kanou is in the mix, Shin is dying an early death and now you've got Tou in a 1v3.
    Also, I don't remember giving Karin and Choutou clauses not to fight. Karin is no pushover, she's 94, Tou isn't about to walk up to her and just take her head of cleanly.

    http://imgur.com/J2cXl5h The "7k" at Junsou (blue) army is 7k cavalry, the text got cut off.
    At least tell me if you agree with the above map, so I know if we're talking about the same things.

    I don't know where you see them fighting, but if Tou and Karin's battlefield is a bottleneck, Gokei will be defending against 1 enemy at a time from Yotanwa's army. Figuratively, of course, but the difference in width is massive. Both of them can't be bottlenecks.

    You still haven't addressed my point at all, because apparently all the special units and elites I have are worth shit. No, not even special units and elites, apparently light/normal/heavy cavalry makes no difference either.

    I'm not sure if you realised, but 40k vs 60k is 2:3 or a 0.67:1 ratio, while 85k vs 110k is 0.77:1.
    Not only does Gokei have better numerical odds, he's been told to play it safe, he has barricades and spikes, he's defending bottle necks and he has a flanking army to reduce pressure, but somehow, he's gonna fall faster than Tou.
    how many calories did you lose jumping to conclusions here?

    I've addressed your point, you just refuse to take it. Not my problem.

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  5. #45
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    how many calories did you lose jumping to conclusions here?

    I've addressed your point, you just refuse to take it. Not my problem.
    You haven't addressed anything.

    I asked you if you agree with the map or not. Can I get an answer there?

  6. #46
    are you giving up on reading now?

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  7. #47
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    are you giving up on reading now?
    So you can't?

  8. #48
    no matter what I say it will be ignored by you unless you like it

    but enough of this [draw]: Karin's army will beat Tou's army in time but will take significant losses since Tou and alpha Shin will take a lot to put down. Gokei can hold the center but for some time until he's overrun by two armies led by two aggressive martial generals. Forest army support will help delay this and make both armies as a whole take significant losses as well. Both CiC armies will survive at least but not in the best of shape. They'd be roughly even for a final clash.

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  9. #49
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    no matter what I say it will be ignored by you unless you like it
    I asked a yes/no question to be able to go from there and try to see your point of view, but you won't even answer that and somehow I'm the one who's doing the ignoring.

    Whatever, I'm off to sleep. Vote whoever you want to, I don't care about the win, I care about the match.

  10. #50
    Sorry Zentos, some people just refuse to admit that Karin is a great general capable of stalemating Moubu and playing around with Tou

    Heck.. Some people just assume that she's so useless that she's just a big target sitting to be destroyed like my final match in cyk 4.5

  11. #51
    Banned Crispickle's Avatar
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    this stuff really needed a corner, the battlefield is a washing machine

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    this stuff really needed a corner, the battlefield is a washing machine
    well... i asked you to make one, didn't I?

    anyway, summary of position made by Zentos


  13. #53
    Banned Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    well... i asked you to make one, didn't I?

    anyway, summary of position made by Zentos

    these colors

  14. #54
    Banned Crispickle's Avatar
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    based on this disposition zentos takes any battlefield.

    is it general agreement this is the final phase overview?

  15. #55
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    based on this disposition zentos takes any battlefield.

    is it general agreement this is the final phase overview?
    Gn does, I think Void does as well (but not with the outcome).

    It's nothing subjective, though, it's how Cyri and myself have drawn/claused things. There shouldn't be any ground for objections on the map.

  16. #56
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    Karin should quickly be able to see that she needs a lot of the troops to dismount. This will probably happen a lot faster due them discarding the pride and such. This is only a bottleneck, if both of them want it to be a bottle neck. Due to her numbers she can easily park the elite on the front lines fighting there while the infantry attacks from different directions. She will probably order the other Blue squad to cut of Tou's escape path in case he tries to pull a fast one and leave.

    They will be busy cleaning up that area for a while, but she will win that battle.

    [Zentos]
    Last edited by Nordlending; 06-05-2017 at 08:44 PM.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  17. #57
    Zentos wins this match

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  18. #58
    Sorry I had internet issues. If this is not over I will argue and vote for other matches today.

    MY bad.

  19. #59
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyri View Post
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    Sorry I had internet issues. If this is not over I will argue and vote for other matches today.

    MY bad.
    Yeah, I thought it was weird that you never answered. I don't mind, but I think the matches are all closed.

    I'd still like to hear your thoughts, I don't want you effort to be wasted.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Yeah, I thought it was weird that you never answered. I don't mind, but I think the matches are all closed.

    I'd still like to hear your thoughts, I don't want you effort to be wasted.
    Ya I'd like to discuss it at least even if you have already won if you don't mind. This was by no means about disrespect I'm sorry i wasn't here I worked hard on that start.

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