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  1. #21
    so okay... since it probably won't start much until someone decide to vote. i'll try to open it.
    it's not a final vote, so feel free to debate it

    The map is "A dry desert, the central part is covered by 2/3 by a mesa with steep cliffs and jagged surface, and the last 1/3 by a contented plain."
    from wikipedia (because i'm lazy to search a better sources), Mesa is "term for tableland, an elevated area of land with a flat top and sides that are usually steep cliffs."

    Almost every picture that is shown when i google image the term mesa support that definition... and really i can't see how Void's team which is 100% cavalry will be able to climb that kind of thing. Void's prep gives nothing specific about how to do that either.

    Even assuming cavalry somehow managed to climb it, I'll give the benefit of doubt that Crispy's team with default troop (which i assume will be mixed troops) will be able to climb it much faster. Crispy's vanguard just need to kill the first batch of Void's troops that have climb with sheer number. After that, most of Crispy's troops will be in a position which is hard to attacked by Void, and they just need to get GHM up or let him die.

    [Crispy] wins from having the most strategical location (mesa) when the battle is stalemate

    if Void can convince me that the horses can climb the mesa then it will be stomp on Void's favor though...

  2. #22
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Void's prep gives nothing specific about how to do that either.
    Prep:
    -devise ways to most efficiently have forces climb the plateau as fast as possible and execute it on the battle day
    He actually does.

    For now I'll have to go with [Void]

    As for my reason, I don't see a way for Crispy to stop the advance of Renpa and Moubu. With the before mentioned climbing effectiveness clause, he should be able to deploy them fast enough to strike before a tight lock is created by Crispy.

    I'm also open for discussion, this doesn't have to be my final vote.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    He actually does.
    He gave nothing specific you know.

    The clause's like "make plan to let chicken flies like birds as efficiently as possible"
    There's nothing specific on how to do that

    it's a bit of an impossible thing to do, but if he succeed, it will be a stomp in Void's favor
    Last edited by gn_x00; 06-03-2017 at 03:49 PM.

  4. #24
    sigh, I was hoping we wouldn't have to debate the mesa, gonna scrap this map later
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    so okay... since it probably won't start much until someone decide to vote. i'll try to open it.
    it's not a final vote, so feel free to debate it

    The map is "A dry desert, the central part is covered by 2/3 by a mesa with steep cliffs and jagged surface, and the last 1/3 by a contented plain."
    from wikipedia (because i'm lazy to search a better sources), Mesa is "term for tableland, an elevated area of land with a flat top and sides that are usually steep cliffs."

    Almost every picture that is shown when i google image the term mesa support that definition... and really i can't see how Void's team which is 100% cavalry will be able to climb that kind of thing. Void's prep gives nothing specific about how to do that either.
    Here are my thoughts:




    you've seen some mesas like this right? Well, I think the hill looking sides of the mesa in the map (the ones with shadowings) are more like the bottom slopes of the slopes in the pics. Compare the slopes (although somewhat steep) to the big hills of Kokuyou or Dakan Plains. Steep, but yet still perfectly climbable by horses.

    Now I would compare the top of the mesa (well some parts of it, like the "peak" Crispy has Ousen park in) and the brown "cliffs" to this:



    super vertical yes, but the map one is not as high. No way I could convince you horses (even Zhao ones) can climb that thing unassisted but notice that on my map, I avoid these steeper cliffs and have my army advance along the gentler mesa slopes, while Crispy has his squads pay no mind to that detail (Kanki is the biggest offender as his army spreads all over the brown cliffs).

    My prep about efficiency is mainly about not bunching up and trying to tackle the climb all at once, which is what Crispy is banking on my army doing.


    Even assuming cavalry somehow managed to climb it, I'll give the benefit of doubt that Crispy's team with default troop (which i assume will be mixed troops) will be able to climb it much faster. Crispy's vanguard just need to kill the first batch of Void's troops that have climb with sheer number. After that, most of Crispy's troops will be in a position which is hard to attacked by Void, and they just need to get GHM up or let him die.

    [Crispy] wins from having the most strategical location (mesa) when the battle is stalemate

    if Void can convince me that the horses can climb the mesa then it will be stomp on Void's favor though...
    Let's entertain that train of thought, if my full cavalry army cannot climb the hill fast enough or at all, Kaishibou who leads Crispy's climb and assuming Crispy with his = Renpa in charge comment means that Kaishibou is leading cavalry as well. That also means his climb will be stalled as well since Kaishibou is forcing the rest of the army to wait for him. I also assume Duke Hyou is cavalry as well since he's a guy that needs cavalry to be at his most effective in power. Also because he's a step behind Kaishibou in leading Crispy's vanguard. It's a 30k army climbing versus a 50k army climbing yes, but both of my Moubu/Renpa armies are climbing at two different but close spots while Duke Hyou is behind Kaishibou.

    Now let's assume Crispy with no prep on how to climb the mountain efficiently does it with mixed troops. His cavalry who are supposed to secure the middle of the mesa lags behind while the infantry, who supposedly get a foothold on the mountain first, are to march to secure the central mesa or run all the way over to my climb spot and "overwhelm" by 50k main left army with "numbers". You seriously think that worn out infantry without a leader or a Kaishibou on foot can actually do that to Renpa and Moubu?


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  5. #25
    @Nordlending; @Aliasniamor; @Cyri; come vote


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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    sigh, I was hoping we wouldn't have to debate the mesa, gonna scrap this map later
    well.. you know it's a mesa and yet you decide to have a full cavalry army instead of a mixed ones.

    It's just.....

    [Void]

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    well.. you know it's a mesa and yet you decide to have a full cavalry army instead of a mixed ones.

    It's just.....

    [Void]
    trust me, I'm a geographer and I know my landforms

    mixed or rather, unspecified armies would've been a headache. sure, it gives me leeway to argue this or that but like I said for Crispy, it would create an uneven climb and not enough speed/energy to take the top. I was confident my cavalry could climb the gentler slopes as I was avoiding the steeper ones.


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  8. #28
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    full cavalry over steep cliffs?

    they'll be going backwards by the time they get halfway


  9. #29
    not as steep as this mesa



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  10. #30
    Lord Cthulhu Nordlending's Avatar
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    Horses are not riding over that thing. That's what I assumed while I played on that map. The only place where I assumed horses can climb is at the cross between and the start points.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  11. #31
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    So this is down to horses being able to climb that fast or not?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    So this is down to horses being able to climb that fast or not?
    yes

    and your judgement whether Crispy's infantry (which should be faster than his cavalry too) will and can push off Void's first batch of horses or not

  13. #33
    Lord Cthulhu Nordlending's Avatar
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    [Crispy]


    I doubt those horses will be able to climb that thing at all. Other than that. If they get up, they will be very slow, and the horses they own will be ridden to death. Gohouhei's position looks a lot better than the other Army under Void.


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  14. #34
    That mesa is complete headache, I mean we seen a lot of crazy feats when armies had to scale steep cliffs whether by infantry or calvary, and while both VOID and CRISPY have troops under them who have achieved such feats in the manga this mesa is different.

    But in my opinion this mesa's cliffs are practically hard to scale for calvary troops and will prove to be very taxing on the stamina of the infantry were they to scale it, the steepness is roughly the same as what En's detachment had to scale back in Kokuyou after crossing the river.

    With that said the most crucial clash in this battle cannot judged without making a lot of assumptions which will render most to be unable to objectively come to a fair decision. My reason for saying this is due to the fact that both parties have decided to stalemate the other flank by remaining passive until the battle on top of the mesa develops further.

  15. #35
    Knight of Elegance Big Daddy Alias's Avatar
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    [Void]


    I think Renpa is the game changer because of what he showed against old man Mougou and the fortification that he prepared for like half of his life ONLY FOR Renpa, but that Renpa managed to break. If Renpa's smart, he might use Moubu as a very good (and destructive, depite being a ) decoy. Moubu will listen to Renpa after evolving much in his last appearances, and Kanmei's no slouch as a commander and with Genbou to give him the guidelines he should do great work.

  16. #36
    Void wins this match


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    Void wins this match
    talking in third person like Caesar now?

    well played, nothing to say. Ever since the strats came out it was clear you outplayed me.


  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    talking in third person like Caesar now?

    well played, nothing to say. Ever since the strats came out it was clear you outplayed me.
    Announcing it like "I win this match" seemed a bit arrogant

    have you ever gotten a win in CyK?


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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    Announcing it like "I win this match" seemed a bit arrogant

    have you ever gotten a win in CyK?


    i... i'm sure i d-did..?

    - - - Updated - - -

    OK I'M NOT SURE AT ALL


  20. #40

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