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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Like others have said, they were probably stronger than they seemed.

    Their bounties, even now, are respectable. Even more so when you consider how long ago they got them.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Like others have said, they were probably stronger than they seemed.

    Their bounties, even now, are respectable. Even more so when you consider how long ago they got them.
    So what youre saying is, its not that Oda didnt make them strong enough, but rather Oda did a very good job of masking how strong the giants actually where? Of course it all makes sense now, I have at last seen the error of my ways! Oda managed to trick everyone (including the characters in the story) into thinking they where extremely weak by not doing basic stuff like breaking out of wax or else pretending to be hurt when they where hit by weak shit like the booger bombs when in reality they where much much stronger but didnt really feel showing that. How could I have ever been so blind to not see that Oda was just playing one massive prank on me

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
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    So what youre saying is, its not that Oda didnt make them strong enough, but rather Oda did a very good job of masking how strong the giants actually where? Of course it all makes sense now, I have at last seen the error of my ways! Oda managed to trick everyone (including the characters in the story) into thinking they where extremely weak by not doing basic stuff like breaking out of wax or else pretending to be hurt when they where hit by weak shit like the booger bombs when in reality they where much much stronger but didnt really feel showing that. How could I have ever been so blind to not see that Oda was just playing one massive prank on me
    Oda does it all the time. Sometimes I think he's tricking himself.

    Case in point: Luffy not being able to break out of simple ropes during Fishman Island when he literally bit a hole in a metal cage all the way back in East Blue.

  4. #24
    Cmon pops, this is different to those times. Dorry and Broggy where fighting against actual opponents in Little garden, Luffy, may have strength feats that are inconsistent with how strong he actually should be, but when it comes to actual fighting Oda tends to be as consistent as can be

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
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    Cmon pops, this is different to those times. Dorry and Broggy where fighting against actual opponents in Little garden, Luffy, may have strength feats that are inconsistent with how strong he actually should be, but when it comes to actual fighting Oda tends to be as consistent as can be

    Like when Luffy got punked by Monet but later Zoro punked her without even hitting her? Or preskip Luffy somehow making Blackbeard scream in agonizing pain? Or the whole being beaten by CP9 at the mansion thing (the reason Nami gave is just an excuse for bad storytelling)? Jimbei telling Luffy he didn't improve that much over the two years only to say he improved a lot a few hours later?

    One Piece is literally littered with examples like these.

  6. #26
    There are feats for all those characters that support they where stronger than they where portrayed to be, or else there is a good reason for why that inconsistency cropped up. Nothing supports that the giants where stronger than they where portrayed to be except their bounties which we should take at face value. They have some impressive strength feats, but by all accounts strength feats like that should be expected of giants

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
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    There are feats for all those characters that support they where stronger than they where portrayed to be, or else there is a good reason for why that inconsistency cropped up. Nothing supports that the giants where stronger than they where portrayed to be except their bounties which we should take at face value. They have some impressive strength feats, but by all accounts strength feats like that should be expected of giants
    That doesn't make any sense.

    You mention how for all those examples I mentioned there is evidence that the characters are stronger than they seem (which I agree with), but then you go on to discount the evidence for the giants for some odd reason.

    You even discount their feats of strength as if strength is irrelevant to what we're discussing.

    If you want an even better example we have them in Daz Bones, Crocodile and Bon Clay. Each would have only gotten minimally stronger since Alabasta but still seemed fairly impressive once they reappeared during Impel Down.

  8. #28
    I liken a feat of strength to a giant as a feat of swimming underwater to a merman, they where the first giants Oda introduced so of course they where going to be shown as doing some impressive feats of strength I look at the giants strength feats more from a storytelling perspective than a powerscaling perspective.

    Strength feats dont automatically equal strength in fighting ability either, Shirahoshi has the power to sink marineford, but I think we would all agree she is as far from being a top tier as the moon is from the sun. Likewise Oar Jr. was able to create an opening in the walls seperating the marineford plaza from the docks which is something none of the WB top lieutenants where capable of.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
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    I liken a feat of strength to a giant as a feat of swimming underwater to a merman, they where the first giants Oda introduced so of course they where going to be shown as doing some impressive feats of strength I look at the giants strength feats more from a storytelling perspective than a powerscaling perspective.

    Strength feats dont automatically equal strength in fighting ability either, Shirahoshi has the power to sink marineford, but I think we would all agree she is as far from being a top tier as the moon is from the sun. Likewise Oar Jr. was able to create an opening in the walls seperating the marineford plaza from the docks which is something none of the WB top lieutenants where capable of.
    Physical strength is a direct factor in combat ability and can't be discounted without good reason. That's like taking a fishman's ability to breath underwater and saying it doesn't factor into their ability to do deep sea diving. It doesn't make sense.

    No one is claiming physical strength offers a direct correlation to fighting ability, but there is a definite correlation. You can't just deny physical strength feats willy nilly.

    And it's not like these guys were super strong physically but didn't know how to fight. They are warriors bred. Hardly comparable to Shirahoshi's ability she can't even control.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Physical strength is a direct factor in combat ability and can't be discounted without good reason. That's like taking a fishman's ability to breath underwater and saying it doesn't factor into their ability to do deep sea diving. It doesn't make sense.

    No one is claiming physical strength offers a direct correlation to fighting ability, but there is a definite correlation. You can't just deny physical strength feats willy nilly.

    And it's not like these guys were super strong physically but didn't know how to fight. They are warriors bred. Hardly comparable to Shirahoshi's ability she can't even control.
    I agree there is a correlation between a fighters ability and their strength, but I think you need to be very careful when you try to rank how strong a giant is as a fighter based off their feats of strength. I dont really even think their strength feats as giants where something to be blown away be either, they defeated the island eater sure but it was with a combined attack and what was probably their strongest named attack, Hakoku. Just because they one shotted it doesnt mean it was an easy thing for them to do, outside of that what reason do we really have to think the giants where strong enough to live up to the hype of captains of elbaf?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
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    I agree there is a correlation between a fighters ability and their strength, but I think you need to be very careful when you try to rank how strong a giant is as a fighter based off their feats of strength. I dont really even think their strength feats as giants where something to be blown away be either, they defeated the island eater sure but it was with a combined attack and what was probably their strongest named attack, Hakoku. Just because they one shotted it doesnt mean it was an easy thing for them to do, outside of that what reason do we really have to think the giants where strong enough to live up to the hype of captains of elbaf?

    So if you agree there's a correlation how in the world can you completely discount their physical strength feats as if they don't matter?

    The entire point here is that Oda is anything but consistent when it comes to most strength showings and he can come up with a myriad of excuses just like he does for so many other instances.

  12. #32
    No, the point here is that strength feats dont equate to fighting strength, even if they do correlate with each other a persons strength doesnt necessarily reflect how theyd fare in a battle.

    Dorry and Brogy haven't shown enough in the way of strength feats to make me believe that they where of the level a former captain of Elbaf should be at.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
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    No, the point here is that strength feats dont equate to fighting strength, even if they do correlate with each other a persons strength doesnt necessarily reflect how theyd fare in a battle.

    Dorry and Brogy haven't shown enough in the way of strength feats to make me believe that they where of the level a former captain of Elbaf should be at.

    First of all, that isn't what you originally said. You originally wanted to throw away the feat altogether. Second of all, since both are very accomplished and skilled fighters it's obvious that in this case strength does reflect how they'd fare in battle.

    And ODa can come up with any number of explanations for that, like you've already admitted.

  14. #34
    When I said nothing implies that they where stronger than they where portrayed to be, I meant it in the context of their bounty and being Elbaf captains not in the strength feats they have shown. The strength feats they have shown aren't even that impressive which I highlighted before I even quoted you to begin with. Their feats against Mr. 5 and Bonclay speak otherwise about them being skilled fighters, face it they dont live up to the hype

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