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  1. #21
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    If I kicked his henchman's ass, Saddam appears outta nowhere and kills the dude for failing to kick my ass: no, I would not be angry. If it was an innocent civilian, of course yeah and if the dude was a civilian forced to do Saddam's bidding against his will yeah but one of his soldiers? no

    I limit this because shonen MCs like Luffy and Natsu get mad when a villain disposes of a henchman for failing a task (the dude isn't even doing it against his will and he isn't a foot soldier most of the time) and then "but he was your friend/comrade!!!" Cue raging war path. I find it hard to understand that line of thinking. inb4 tl;dr about how I'm such a horrible human being
    Well Luffy is a captain.A captains responsibility is to take care of the crew.Luffy getting pissed makes sense since he is a leader

  2. #22
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormungandr View Post
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    Because of Hancock, that's the only reason.
    If you want the booty, you can be a pimp like Croc or Dofla.

  3. #23
    Rank 99 Limited Douluo Xuan Lao's Avatar
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    Shonen MCs are all naive.


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  4. #24
    Overhaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    Shonen MCs are all retarded.
    Fixed it for you.

  5. #25
    Say cheese! Makenzye's Avatar
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    This is actually a somewhat common superhero trope. Especially in the pages of something like Captain America where the villain does this specifically to showcase the absolute terror of the character themselves, while allowing Cap to reinforce and double down on his moral righteousness in calling it out. He never gets revenge for the killed villain, but it's usually along the lines of, "He was beaten! He lost! You killing him was a cruel and unnecessary act. I knew you were evil, but I didn't think you were inhuman."
    Last edited by Makenzye; 03-20-2017 at 01:50 PM.


  6. #26
    Chaotic Neutral Jörmungandr's Avatar
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    If anyone wants to read a good series with anti-shounen MC, then you should read Feng Shen Ji. Of one my favourites protagonists.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    This is actually a somewhat common superhero trope. Especially in the pages of something like Captain America where the villain does this specifically to showcase the absolute terror of the character themselves, while allowing Cap to reinforce and double down on his moral righteousness in calling it out. He never gets revenge for the killed villain, but it's usually along the lines of, "He was beaten! He lost! You killing him was a cruel and unnecessary act. I knew you were evil, but I didn't think you were inhuman."
    That's why I like stories that paint the villains in a grey light. I feel too often fiction paints the world in a black and white manner; when that's just not true. Even the "worst" people had some good in them and the "best" people had some evil in them. Human beings all have their demons; but we all have our angels too. It's like that just in real life; too. Especially mob families. Correct me if I'm wrong (not big on One Piece anymore as you know), but this trope of "bad guy hurting/killing one of his own" would never happen with Doflamingo and his family or even the rest of his henchmen.

    So to sum it all up, it's really cool when we see the more humane side of the "bad guys". Knowing that they're not just all "LOL EVULZZZZZ" is really refreshing to see.

  8. #28
    Say cheese! Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius Chair View Post
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    That's why I like stories that paint the villains in a grey light. I feel too often fiction paints the world in a black and white manner; when that's just not true. Even the "worst" people had some good in them and the "best" people had some evil in them. Human beings all have their demons; but we all have our angels too. It's like that just in real life; too. Especially mob families. Correct me if I'm wrong (not big on One Piece anymore as you know), but this trope of "bad guy hurting/killing one of his own" would never happen with Doflamingo and his family or even the rest of his henchmen.

    So to sum it all up, it's really cool when we see the more humane side of the "bad guys". Knowing that they're not just all "LOL EVULZZZZZ" is really refreshing to see.
    A lot of supervillains are usually cut from the cloth of gray, but Captain America is a very political superhero born from a time of extremism and so a lot of his enemies reflect this. In his case this works because if most of his enemies were more or less understandable then it would actually paint the Captain as the bad guy for coming in and crushing problems. Or more likely turn them into very action free stories, as most of when he does come across morally gray enemies there's an attempt at understanding and talking and fighting as a last resort.


  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    he's a villain, I expect scummy behavior from him in the first place and shonen MCs shouldn't be so naive that a villain did something scummy as well, like c'mon man, you've faced multiple scum bags that did worse

    now, if we're talking of some random dude that picked a fight with me in the streets, lost and got offed by his boss in front of me: yeah, you'd get a reaction out of me because I don't know who they are and I'd want answers for that behavior. But put me in manga where Yhwach or Zeref sends some dude to kill me and he gets killed for his failure, I wouldn't really give a shit
    Sure, we expect him to be scummy and we probably wouldn't feel anything for the henchman either for the same reason. I'm not saying we should be surprised at the action or want to exact revenge specifically for the fallen scumbag. I am saying it's normal to be flustered when someone does something you know is just messed up. It's really not about how good or bad the people in question are, it's about the action itself. It's a normal human reaction to get pissed at messed up stuff.

  10. #30
    Say cheese! Makenzye's Avatar
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    I should offer up that superheroes tend to not be more motivated by watching someone die in this manner. Disgust is common, but rarely do they get sent off into a rage in a bid to avenge the fallen foe.


  11. #31
    Lord Cthulhu Nordlending's Avatar
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    Most Shounen Heroes detest killing in the first place. Getting enraged when someone gets killed in front of them is a obvious conclusion. They being henchmen or not hardly matters when it comes down to it.

    I have nothing against villains killing their henchmen, but if they do it for no good reason I find it more distasteful. There should be reason for it. Stopping them from releasing important information and such.

    Remember my last Nuzlocke. Well, I lost the cartridge somewhere and that one won't be finished. Lucky for You I will start a new one soon.

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    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Void proving why he'd be the Sanji of a crew, not the Luffy.
    my nose is not that loose kitty-chan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Well Luffy is a captain.A captains responsibility is to take care of the crew.Luffy getting pissed makes sense since he is a leader
    so what you're getting at is that since Luffy is a captain, he gets pissed off at these types of actions because those dudes aren't being good captains to his standard?

    I dunno about that, Luffy is a pretty shitty captain in my eyes, he does care for crewmates a lot and that's a huge plus but he also unnecessarily gets them into trouble a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Sure, we expect him to be scummy and we probably wouldn't feel anything for the henchman either for the same reason. I'm not saying we should be surprised at the action or want to exact revenge specifically for the fallen scumbag. I am saying it's normal to be flustered when someone does something you know is just messed up. It's really not about how good or bad the people in question are, it's about the action itself. It's a normal human reaction to get pissed at messed up stuff.
    then that would depend on your definition of messed up stuff

    like, failure to complete a task -> immediate execution can go either way: messed up or not depending on the severity of the failure and what the task was. my original scenario for these shonen situations is I don't care, cuz most of the time, the henchman knew what he was doing, he wasn't forced (hell, he wanted to do it), and he reaps the consequences of failure (might be harsh to deal with immediate execution but I didn't sympathize with the guy in the first place)

    now, we take something stupid like Yhwach killing a random dude with the line "Are you a prophet?" for simply stating a suggestion or something, then that's messed up cuz the death was for no good reason

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    then that would depend on your definition of messed up stuff

    like, failure to complete a task -> immediate execution can go either way: messed up or not depending on the severity of the failure and what the task was. my original scenario for these shonen situations is I don't care, cuz most of the time, the henchman knew what he was doing, he wasn't forced (hell, he wanted to do it), and he reaps the consequences of failure (might be harsh to deal with immediate execution but I didn't sympathize with the guy in the first place)

    now, we take something stupid like Yhwach killing a random dude with the line "Are you a prophet?" for simply stating a suggestion or something, then that's messed up cuz the death was for no good reason
    The death was for no good reason either way. Only difference is in one case you sympathize with the victim and the other time you didn't.

  14. #34
    Resist the Flesh Minty's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Gon Freecss from HxH would rather the villains kill their own comrades, but he might be an outlier among shounen MCs. I personally can't think of any other shounen MC as savage as Gon. He was legit furious that Pitou was trying to save Komugi.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I'd say without their captains the Whitebeards would be slightly stronger than the Red-Hairs and with their captains they'd be significantly stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    It's pretty obvious no Emperor was a real threat to Whitebeard. He just had too much power and influence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Raigou apparently can't even destroy an island, which Whitebeard can do easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Obviously it was because of Whitebeard, but the crew even without the captain is still highly exceptional. If you take away the captains, the Whitebeard's would beat any Emperor crew decisively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Vista can fight Whitebeard,

  15. #35
    Red Hero Rax, The Infinite Hero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    Why do (shonen) MCs get mad when a villain disposes of a henchman for failing his job or the likes? Are they pushing their friendship values on the villain and therefore get triggered when someone isn't as warm and cuddly with their "comrades" as the MC is with theirs?
    Cause it's douchey

  16. #36
    Resist the Flesh Minty's Avatar
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    Logically, if a person joins an evil orginization you'd have to assume that they are evil themselves. Why then is it bad when the leader kills them? Especially in series like Dragonball where the MCs are going to kill them anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I'd say without their captains the Whitebeards would be slightly stronger than the Red-Hairs and with their captains they'd be significantly stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    It's pretty obvious no Emperor was a real threat to Whitebeard. He just had too much power and influence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Raigou apparently can't even destroy an island, which Whitebeard can do easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Obviously it was because of Whitebeard, but the crew even without the captain is still highly exceptional. If you take away the captains, the Whitebeard's would beat any Emperor crew decisively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Vista can fight Whitebeard,

  17. #37
    COV's Avatar
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    Because MCs value life and they see taking of a life even if it is an enemy is wrong


    I AM THROGG! THE TRUE KING IN THE NORTH!!!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rax, Hero Of Carnage View Post
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    Cause it's douchey
    I mean, you throw your "friends" under the bus when they disagree with you right? How's this different?

  19. #39
    Resist the Flesh Minty's Avatar
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    Shounen MCs kill all of the time, though. Except for post-war Kenshin, I've never seen a MC vow to never kill. Even Luffy tried to kill Zoro and he's planning to assassinate Big Mom. Goku killed King Piccolo, Tsuna killed Bermuda, Yusuke killed Toguro, Kenshiro kills everyone, so on and so forth.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I'd say without their captains the Whitebeards would be slightly stronger than the Red-Hairs and with their captains they'd be significantly stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    It's pretty obvious no Emperor was a real threat to Whitebeard. He just had too much power and influence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Raigou apparently can't even destroy an island, which Whitebeard can do easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Obviously it was because of Whitebeard, but the crew even without the captain is still highly exceptional. If you take away the captains, the Whitebeard's would beat any Emperor crew decisively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Vista can fight Whitebeard,

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