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  1. #41
    how about I just throw an army of 100k blood lusted asian elephants into the center and whoever can kill the most with their current strat wins


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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    how about I just throw an army of 100k blood lusted asian elephants into the center and whoever can kill the most with their current strat wins
    If poison arrows and poison ballistas are effective I could win that

  3. #43
    wouldn't my pikemen kill them all?

    they got +25 vs war elephant afterall


  4. #44
    come trollids, there's only one vote for tie right now


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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    come trollids, there's only one vote for tie right now
    well, what are we even supposed to do with it?

    on a side note, you didn't even tag people here

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    well, what are we even supposed to do with it?

    on a side note, you didn't even tag people here
    does that even matter anymore, people visit the thread and they don't even comment

    but worry not comrade, I has only the best in mind for this outcome


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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    does that even matter anymore, people visit the thread and they don't even comment

    but worry not comrade, I has only the best in mind for this outcome
    The match is probably too complicated anyway. It seems it's safe to say state bonus isn't really a good idea except if we differ things in the auction phase

    Siege weapons need to be rethinking about the limit/usage/etc

    Attack/Defence map advantage/disadvantage need to be rethink since it seems 50% more troops are too much

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    The match is probably too complicated anyway. It seems it's safe to say state bonus isn't really a good idea except if we differ things in the auction phase

    Siege weapons need to be rethinking about the limit/usage/etc

    Attack/Defence map advantage/disadvantage need to be rethink since it seems 50% more troops are too much
    hmm, maybe have attack/defense but on equal maps and equal base troops (bar state bonus)? that way, at least we'll get some action on maps like this

    yeah, we definitely we need onagers


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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    hmm, maybe have attack/defense but on equal maps and equal base troops (bar state bonus)? that way, at least we'll get some action on maps like this
    well.. not sure, but people might need to somehow make the enemy attack them if they really want to bait enemy into attacking their defending position like this.

  10. #50
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    does that even matter anymore, people visit the thread and they don't even comment
    Mention them anyway, visiting doesn't mean much.

    I'll vote later today. Do you have a corner for this one or not?


  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Mention them anyway, visiting doesn't mean much.

    I'll vote later today. Do you have a corner for this one or not?
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    I'm not going to do a corner here.

  12. #52
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    .
    did you make one yourself?


  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    did you make one yourself?
    i'm not sure how the battle start at all, so it's not like i can make one

  14. #54
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, now i understand the difficulty in breaking this match down lol

    Ok, dropping some thoughts and then see if they break the balance for me.

    Hard to not see this as a chess match between Genbou and Fuuki, but for how skillful Fuuki can be, he's in the field, while Genbou can oversee and control the bigger picture better as CIC. How much of a problem is this, since the battlefield is essentially a corridor? Maybe not as big as it'd usually be, but still something to consider.

    I usually don't give much attention to micromanagement clauses, but using siege towers as archery platforms would be a pretty damn genial idea in a plain battle like this one. But then again, Felix has Seikai and these towers are nothing but targets for him. I guess this backfire for gnx, at least until his commanders don't realize the danger and try to minimize.

    Down to generals. We have

    Left:
    Choutou, Ryuutou, -35k
    vs
    Kousonryuu, Batei, 40k + some s.e.

    This is a genuine standstill for a while, but Kousonryuu gets the edge on the mid-period and might push back the enemy if gnx's centre doesn't collapse first.


    Centre:
    Genbou, Seikai, Kanou, Rokuomi, Kokuou, Kyoukai, -90k + chariots + poison (+HQ)
    vs
    Fuuki, Rinko, Raido, 60k + chariots (+HQ)

    Overwhelming advantage for Felix, but the guy also has around 20k low quality troops worth of reinforcement, while gnx can have Ordo moving his 30k in addition to Rinko, whom i tossed in the fray already. As a matter of immediate front lines, we have Fuuki dealing with some of the KaRoKoKa until Rinko comes around, which i see happening without problems. Rinko coming gives slight edge to gnx until Genbou sends new waves of attacks with a sidetaste of poison. This means most likely goodbye Rinko and the chance to pierce the centre. Fuuki will most likely hold until Ordo comes, and Genbou at that point would have to toss in what remains of his army and the HQ reserves. For how I think Fuuki can handle the most perilous times, and assuming chariots as nonfactors since they're in equal number in both sides, gnx's centre can hold if not endangered on the sides, and sees an advantage over felix's in the long-period.


    Right:

    Kaioku, Zenou, 50k
    vs
    Rihaku, Kouyoku, 40k + some s.e.

    General specialized in defense & suicidal guy vs master of penpushers & super offensive frontliner. If we add the siege equipment to Rihaku, he can at the very least hold if not push back. Mid-period edge for gnx.



    To sum up, we have gnx seeing no threat from the sides and barely holding the centre until even the centre itself gets a good position against felix's own centre. If i had to pinpoint a couple of decisive reasons in this mess, they would be:
    _ slightly more elastic formation
    _ right people in the right places, namely Fuuki, Rihaku and Rinko.

    [gnx]


    This was hellish. We should make this a rainy map because if we exclude the forests everytime, all is left is literally a 2D battle. Using poison is fine but we have to limit fire somehow.

    Let's add a metheorogical randomizer
    Last edited by Crispickle; 03-24-2017 at 03:06 PM.


  15. #55
    I demand a recount

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rihaku and Kouyoku beating Kaioku and Zenou even saying they can "push them back"

  16. #56
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    @Crispinianus;

    When put like that, I agree that left is a stalemate. But, I wouldn't be so keen on the middle and the right.
    Middle:
    At the start Felix has a 30k difference, and in a plain battle that is not really a small number. Not only that, he has better strategists and fighters. There's also the fact that Fuuki is offense oriented, and here he is forced to defend. I'm not really sure if he can hold the middle as good as you think he would.
    Right:
    While the numbers on the right are more even, I believe that the generals will make it for Felix.
    Let's start with SHK's #2 man, Kaioku. Thus far he was shown to be extremely skilled(playing a crucial role at Sai) as a strategist. He is certain to use Zenou to the best of his ability, and that is to kill the enemy officer.
    Kouyoku is a hothead, and he's guaranteed to bite the bait, because there's no clause that stops him to do so. He can't take Zenou on, and he'll die. After that, Felix should pull ahead on the right side.

    I'll have to even the count until we can agree on the outcome. [felixng2015]

  17. #57
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    I demand a recount

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rihaku and Kouyoku beating Kaioku and Zenou even saying they can "push them back"
    Kouyoku might as well die in the first hour

    But Rihaku isn't losing to a court jester and an angry caveman.


  18. #58
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Kouyoku might as well die in the first hour

    But Rihaku isn't losing to a court jester and an angry caveman.
    That court jester has gotten nothing but praise. Do you really hold SHK's #2 in such low esteem? We've seen how good he was on the field at Sai. Zenou will break into his defense. Not as fast as Moubu, but he will. He has 5k of his men, while Moubu did it with peasants.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Kouyoku might as well die in the first hour

    But Rihaku isn't losing to a court jester and an angry caveman.
    He got crushed by an angry caveman using peasants to fight, sure Zenou isn't as strong as Moubu but he has regular troops not peasants and he has a good strategist to help as well.

    Kaioku is superior to Rihaku overall though Rihaku might be better purely on defense. Beating Rihaku's defense would be tough but with Zenou helping it should be no problem.

    Kaioku is one of the MVP's of the Sai arc and SHK's right hand man are you serious?

  20. #60
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    @Crispinianus;

    When put like that, I agree that left is a stalemate. But, I wouldn't be so keen on the middle and the right.
    Middle:
    At the start Felix has a 30k difference, and in a plain battle that is not really a small number. Not only that, he has better strategists and fighters. There's also the fact that Fuuki is offense oriented, and here he is forced to defend. I'm not really sure if he can hold the middle as good as you think he would.
    Right:
    While the numbers on the right are more even, I believe that the generals will make it for Felix.
    Let's start with SHK's #2 man, Kaioku. Thus far he was shown to be extremely skilled(playing a crucial role at Sai) as a strategist. He is certain to use Zenou to the best of his ability, and that is to kill the enemy officer.
    Kouyoku is a hothead, and he's guaranteed to bite the bait, because there's no clause that stops him to do so. He can't take Zenou on, and he'll die. After that, Felix should pull ahead on the right side.
    I'm addressing centre point. Genbou simply can't use his initial superiority all at once, because numbers are simply too high for such a commitment. If the commander in front of him has 25k men, Genbou won't move a colossus of 80k men right away. It's a waste of time, it's inefficient and it's strategically wrong. What he does is most likely sending two or three of his frontliners leading a total of 30-35k men tops, to not unbalance himself too much. Fuuki can deal with it just fine, until Rinko comes with his army and brings the first spin to the roulette.

    As for the rest, it's a difference of opinions, so... just vote for what you feel like it. You don't have to convince me to do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    He got crushed by an angry caveman using peasants to fight, sure Zenou isn't as strong as Moubu but he has regular troops not peasants and he has a good strategist to help as well.

    Kaioku is superior to Rihaku overall though Rihaku might be better purely on defense. Beating Rihaku's defense would be tough but with Zenou helping it should be no problem.

    Kaioku is one of the MVP's of the Sai arc and SHK's right hand man are you serious?
    It's not like Zenou isn't Moubu. Moubu is a great general, Zenou is not even a general. He's a captain or a chieftain, extremely versed in strength and charges. That's all. This is not a fright for Rihaku of Defense.

    Kaioku superior to Rihaku is just speculation. You have no basis to state this and I have no basis to negate it. So let's just leave it at that before I start calling that buffoon with his names.


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