I'll take a look at this later
I'm gonna add a battle sequence part by part, hope I get it right.
Battlefield at time 0:
The fighting start at stage 4, but I won't be making a sequence for that, because I might be biased. A neutral party can do it, if they have time for it.
Last edited by Zentos; 03-20-2017 at 09:43 PM.
I will take a better look at this tomorrow.
From what I can see now.
From what I can see Red Army will be completely and utterly destroyed. I will suffer little to no casualties doing this. They won't meet my army until they get to the point a little above where Zentos stated they would be. From there they either have to retreat (suicide) or continue (suicide). They will all die.
Mangoku, 10 K Archers, 20 K Heavy Infantry, 5000 Zombie Troops, Ranbihaku, 1 k Wei Chariots and 250 Wei Ballista
Kyouen, Ouhon+5k unit, Mouten+5k unit, 15k cavalry and 5k cavalry archers.
You winning that exchange is debatable, much less destroying them without casualties. Both Mouten and Ouken rape Mangoku worse than he rapes dead women, Ranbihaku would prove a good fight, but my army has the clause "Tell the army to be wary of and counter accordingly, Nord's generals/chariots/siege weaponry, and avoid duels(tag team them if possible).". That, and my whole Red army is mounted, which means that no one in your team can even catch up to them.
And even if your army was stronger, Mangoku has a clause "Don’t go into murdering a Qin unless they get close enough to murder them properly.", while my Red army has "In case that they are intercepted by an army that they can not fight, run in the way of the dotted arrows, otherwise proceed with guerilla warfare. ". Add onto that the fact that a 100k strong army is coming their way, and you'll soon find out that your Field 1 has been overrun with low diff.
As for your other armies, Field 2 and Field 3, which are 70k, 1k chariots and 120 ballistas strong completely missed their mark. They won't even engage an enemy, and if they do chase my team C, they'll find themselves in Keisha's trap and get wiped out.
@Aliasniamor; @Jjcb; @DoflaMihawk;
Don't be shy, join in on the fun.
Last edited by Zentos; 03-20-2017 at 11:23 PM.
You forgot the ballistics stationed at Mougou camp aimed at the place your red army is going to battle. You also forgot the archers Mougou have placed with the ballista's ready to rain down hell on the red army. Mougou can, and will probably send even more archers to assist because Keisha is tending to his campfire in the forest. You aren't even considering the defense that I have up around the different fields.
Also Red army goes first, and they doesn't wait.
Orange army is to far away to do anything. They are also very slow, crossing a forest, moving up only two siege towers. That will take an eternity. That's 100 K. Not your local boy scout club.
Also Chousou have this clause.
- Always keep close attention to where enemy troops are and react accordingly.
He can see everything. He is at the highest point. He is a smart man. He knows he won't be able to do much about Dark Blue Army and will return to HQ, joining up with Mougou and will do what he thinks is best.
@Void; You uploaded the unedited one. Mougou's second clause was a different one.
just a thought/feedback.
I really can't see how it's easier to see compared to general strategy paragraph with only the map/picture if it's like this.
what's your opinion on their maps vs mine for example?
If possible i really like if we add the general pics inside the picture so that we achieve what we want to change into this style of strats. it shouldn't be that hard since you have already prepare most of the generals' pic anyway
I didn't forget about them, it's that only Field 1 will be attacked. Everything you set up around Field 2 and Field 3 is useless.
Mougu can't attack my red army from HQ, he doesn't have infinite range. He'd be shooting at Mangoku.
Team A(red army) will not charge in and die.
Their clause is to perform guerilla warfare and if they can't, they are to run away. Do you take Ouhon/Mouten/Kyouen for idiots who would ride into their death when they have specific clauses not to do so? Not to mention that your army is behind walls, while mine are mounted and can escape easily.
Neither army is moving up with only the towers. They will use the towers to get up faster, but obviously some will climb the normal way. Team D(orange army) has all the time in the world, because of the clauses that team A(red army) have.
Chouso may be able to see team C, but he can't see teams B and D which are in forests on the other side of the map.
If Mougu and Chosou send soldiers to assist Mangoku, team C will take care of Kyuugen, and team B will get into your base.
If they don't, it's 30k+5k special+chariots and ballistas vs 120k+10k special, in my favour.
Last edited by Zentos; 03-21-2017 at 12:21 AM.
anyway this battle as a whole at a glance:
Chousou using 100 ballista vs blue team - they retreat
Mougou using ballistas vs chariots, Keisha and red team - they retreat/won't attack because they can't defeat something that high without any help to scale the cliff. arguably the siege tower (which will take ages to be brought there) will be wrecked quickly to even bother helping
Mangoku is ordered not to chase the enemy - will shooting red and orange with ballistas. Either orange and red team retreat or they got wrecked by ballistas from 2 position and got crush by Ranbihaku and Mangoku and the zombies
with that strats, Nord should be able to defend in 7 days (iirc that's the time limit isn't it?)
Zentos has too many clause saying they're to retreat while Nord pretty much has an easy way to attack them via ballistas. there's no opportunity to counter attacking like what Zentos hope from what i see
i'll see arguments before voting of course
Last edited by gn_x00; 03-21-2017 at 12:39 AM.
Mougou will order the other generals to return to HQ if the enemy doesn't appear, and isn't going to do so in the near future.
hard to say, what you're doing is different to what they're doing with their maps, in regards to strategy
We need to actually make a limit for war chariots and ballistas next time. 1,000 of those big boys is an obscene amount and is great for sieging and defense.
Its far from invincible but its tough to handle for sure.
Last edited by gn_x00; 03-21-2017 at 03:13 AM.
I'll say that your colored coded army spreads and pics look better visually than what Nord/Zentos have, but again ...
- - - Updated - - -
I'll say that your colored coded army spreads and pics look better visually than what Nord/Zentos have, but again ...
Only 2 of my teams have a clause to retreat, and that are the red and dark blue, which have 20k generic+10k special and 25k generical+5k special units. However, they won't sit out forever, because they also have clauses to join the orange and light blue armies, respectively.
The orange army will not take 7 days to get to Mangoku, that's just silly. As soon as they get there, the combined attacking force becomes 120k generic+10k special trrops. How in the hell is he supposed to stop that with 30k generic+5k slecial? The chariots and ballistas can not be stroger than 90k generic+5k special troops.
Mougu would have to send all of his 50k troops as well as all of Chouso's 40k troops to turn it 5k into Nord's favour, in which case my 80k generic+5k specual strong Keisha army enters his base and my dark blue army, which is 25k generic+5k special takes out Kyuugen and his 30k generic.
No matter how you look at it, as soon as orange gets there his left side is getting hit with an army that has 95k more men. If he doesn't react, Mangoku and Ranbihaku get trampled. If he does react, dark blue tramples Kyuugen, and Keisha has uncontested entry into the base. You are not stopping an 80k generic+5k special strong army with 650 ballistas.
Last edited by Zentos; 03-21-2017 at 04:05 AM.
Time for the Crusty corner!
Here we are at start of battle, Nord has most of his ballistas deployed as seen and (not pictured) he's used his siege tower walls to cover them from enemy fire. Chousou is moving up north and Kyuugen is moving to the east, both with help from siege towers one way or another. Mangoku and Ranbihak uwill move to the west to set up their own firing zone.
Zentos has split his army in two, one will move north from the west and the other will move from the opposite corner to the northeast.
Phase two: Mangoku and Ranbi are setting up shop at field one with their ballistas, Chousou and Kyuugen are climbing their respective cliffs and Mougou is chilling at his HQ (supposedly in a siege tower for vision).
Meanwhile, Zentos' left army is stagnated for the most part at the southwestern cliffs: he's made a good decision in letting the smaller army use the siege towers to climb the cliffs first and so Kyouen/Ouhon/Mouten begin their ascent while Junsou and Kaishibou wait. Keisha nad Kisui have knocked down the palisade walls and have made it to their preferred location in a forest in front of Nord's HQ. Hopefully they are out of range of the ballistas Heki and Bajio make their way northeast under the cover of the dust chariots.
Phase three: Kyouen's army has made it all the way up and are headed to their destination but wait! They come under fire from both sides by ballista bolts from Mangoku and Mougou's HQ. They rush to implement Zentos' contingency of luring enemies west to guerilla them but only to rush straight into Mangoku/Ranbi-chan's loving embrace ... and a second set of ballista fire. Meanwhile, Kaishibou and Junsou's army is climbing the mountain cliffs.
Keisha and Kisui are still chilling, waiting for info from their left army's progress.
The chariots complete their dust path while Heki/Bajio arrive to find ... Kyuugen waiting for them with a projectile orgy! Butt weight, Chousou's army and ballistas have captured one side of the cliffs of their field and see fit to fire upon Heki from above to aid Kyuugen. Heki and Bajio have no choice but to retreat back to Keisha as per Zentos' contingency.
Phase four: The misadventures of Heki and Bajio have resulted in significant losses of their army from the orgy, but they hope to lure the enemy back to Keisha to ambush? Well, Chousou's too busy getting the last cliff and while Kyuugen has no clauses, he doesn't strike me as an overeager guy that would chase after a retreating army while he is (seemingly) supposed to be defending his position. Ambush failed and Keisha gets impatient for no victim to entangle.
Oh boy, Kyouen's misadventures end in a more frightening and grim way: they get bitten by zombies after being made into pincushions and then they meet Ranbi the reaper. I don't think Ouhon, Kyouen, and Mouten can make it through this alive. Meanwhile, Kaishibou and Junsou finally get their huge army up the cliffs and are making it through the swamps/forests. All while the siege towers they abused are hurrying back to Keisha's position.
Let's say this takes place all within a day: Nord's forces are in relatively good form: they've taken the most strategic defensive positions and reinforced them well. If anything, Kyouen's forces could've gotten a lucky kill in in Mangoku but I doubt it. So we're left with a fresh 100k Junsou + Kaishibou army and 20 ballistas about to dance with the rapist and Ranbi-chan. Meanwhile, Keisha/Kisui have reunited with Heki/bajio but discover they cannot even approach the cliffs in the middle and northeast without tasting ballista bolts. They'll have to leg it to the west with Kaishibou's army to take down Nord's weakpoint at Mangoku. Can they take Mougou's HQ with in 7 days?
YOU DECIDE! DRAMA! ACTION! BLOODSHED!
@Void; as what i suggested last game, if possible tag everyone who is likely to vote after you posted corners and strats since some people might not check it.
ofc spectators can opt out of the tag if they wish so
anyway, your corners seems to be what i expected for this game, although i'm not really sure where Kyouen and co will actually go since there's too many arrows from Zentos' map. so either they managed to regroup with Kaishibou and Junsou or they'll die
Keisha's wouldn't be able to climb the cliffs since Nord has it fortified and guard it nicely with the ballistas. Kaishibou and Junsou will also under heavy fire from HQ, plus their the overall power of Ranbihaku and Mangoku (+ zombies are quite powerful vs Ouhon and Mouten).
Overall i see Zentos dividing his troops too much on hard to do quests. Had he have Ordo and the mountain men instead of Keisha, it will change things completely imo
Last edited by gn_x00; 03-21-2017 at 06:34 AM.
@Great Potato; @Crispinianus; @felixng2015; @Cyri; @Aliasniamor;
well, his contingency arrows for Kyouen's army all point in the location of where Mangoku is set up so ...
dunno about Ordo but if he did have Riboku's cavalry with Kaine as well as fast cavalry and Ordo, he could've rushed anywhere tbh: have the mountain men piggyback on the fast horses and deliver them straight to the edges of the cliffs. a big weakness of the wei ballistas is that they're not maneuverable on the Y axis so they can't shoot down on the people climbing. you'll take losses sure but rush with enough and you'll be able to get a good foothold
Nord kinda cover that nicely by specifying archers on his strats though.. still some ways to go around that ofc, but in this game atm Nord's position and strats is quite nice imo
Last edited by gn_x00; 03-21-2017 at 06:54 AM.
Not only are you ignoring my previous post, you are ignoring my clauses, which is far worse. I've drawn multiple dotted arrows for red team so you would underatand the general direction in which they are to head. I didn't draw just one to avoid this situation exactly, where you claim that it's too shallow/too die and they don't retreat or something. The clause is in the direction of arrows(left), not following the path of a single arrow.
You've also drawn Kyuugen wrong, because his are is marked by Nord to be before the forrest,so no, he won't be firing anything at my dark blue army, because he's sitting outside the forest.
They will either get into the forest safe and sound, or they will make it to Keisha after minimal loses suffred from Chosou(because he can only fire at the small patch before the forest).
And one more thing, we don't have a single feat of ballistas tearing apart units. In fact, the only ballista feat we have is hitting KP. And you claim they would kill 30k under kyouen/Ouhon/Mouten, who are all brilliant tactical minds. Where exactly does this ballista deadliness come from? They can be avoided with cavalry and they are freaking slow to reload. Talk about understimating my armies AND their CLAUSES. Why did I bother writing them, if you'll ignore them?
Also, Mougu can't help Mangoku when orange defends, you will NOT persuade me tha ballistas that aren't on a hill(no such thing between Mangoku and Mougu) can fire over an army of 35k soldiers to hit me, and not his allies.
You also ignored the fact that once red and orange join and hit Nord's 35k with 130k that they will get trampled, and if Mougu and Chouso help Mangoku, Keisha will climb the mountain with NO ONE to defend, while Bajio will either join him or fight Kyuugen with 25k generic+5k special vs 30k generic.
And one more thing; Gn lost a final because all of you claimed that Moubu can survive being turned into a pin cushion. So don't go killing of Ohhon/Mouten/Kyouen with a few archers and FEATLESS! ballistas, when they infinitely smarter and have a clause to not die like bloodthirsty idiots.
Nord has no answer for the overwhelming force that will hit him from the left. If he doesn't help them, they get trampled and die, exposing his base; if he does help them, Keisha climbs the mountain with no resistance.
Last edited by Zentos; 03-21-2017 at 08:15 AM.
that's why i haven't vote yet, since i haven't really address arguments.
i'm slacking off at work right now, so can't really do that time consuming process. gonna reply your posts in 2 - 3 hours.
Last edited by gn_x00; 03-21-2017 at 08:56 AM.