Of course one can just look at the results, check them off and praise or condemn based on this - like many kings would do, and the public.
Or one looks behind the victory/defeat of his general and asks whether it was bad luck, incompetence or even worse, betrayal. And accordingly keeps him up, demotes him or worse.
Hara has given us beautiful insight in the whole process Karin went through bids all over the arc... there were problems (see below), but we can see why Karin acted the way she did and why it was the best course going by what she knew. She has flaws, but she is a great general.
Plus SSK apparently never bothered to keep Karin and Kanmei in line. Actually, GHM had to keep Karin back when she was going after Ordo. So despite sending the biggest army of 150.000, Chu never managed to utilize them.
But you can't blame Karin for not telling the other commanders. Depsite it coming out of the blue, it was a very risky plan, the more people know about, the more likely they fuck up. And even if everyone kept their mouth shut, there was the risk of Ousen reading the plan by Ordo's reactions.
I wouldn't agree that she is a great general. She has great talent for strategy, that is true. But she lacks every other quality that makes a great general; communication, teamwork and raising morale, to name a few. She is wicked through and through, to the point where I'd gauge her to be worse than Kanki. At the very least, all the shit Kanki does is done to his enemies, not his allies. The only exception being him striking 2 of Zenou's soldiers, but that felt out of character for me and poorly written. How could they not know their bandit leader/general?
As for the information leaking, that is simply not true. She could've told only the 6 generals or in fact, only tell Ordo that he should move his army towards KP the moment he sees a smoke signal from there. He could tell them to move without prior warning, like what Ousen did in the current arc. Exactly one person except her could've know about it, and everything would be fine.
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Regarding communication and teamword. Her own troops reacted very well, moving in formations. It is with other generals where the problems lie. Again, Chu. I really hope Karin and Kouen can turn their state around.
Lets not play blame game here.
I fault neither Tou nor Karin for their performance in CA arc.
Tou had to defend against ridiculously large army with quite small of his own. We have been spoiled by outrageous feats that we have forgotten how difficult it actually is. Some fault him for failing to kill whatever that young Chu 5000 commander guys name was. But he is supposed to be Chu's Shin and a very fucked up Shin injured Houken of all people. So I can't fault Tou there. He did more than what was asked from him.
Karin also can't be faulted because she did better than Riboku did in there. She didn't communicate with Ordo because why the hell would she ? They didn't trust each other. Just because they coalition didn't mean they would become buddy with each other. For all she knew Ordo would have got captured by enemies and spilled the beans or worse defected to Qin.
She came closest to taking over KP. Seeing just end result is pretty narrow minded way of looking at things. Context matters.
So Tou was great and so was Karin.
Really Ordo was the only one who truly fucked up in CA arc.
And maybe Kanmei . They accomplished jack shit in war.
Took me a while to find Tou vs. Karin's numbers.
Chu vs. Qin started off 150.000 to 90.000 (ch. 278).
Final Moubu vs. Kanmei was 40.000 vs. 60.000 (ch. 309).
Final Tou vs. Karin: 30.000 vs. 60.000 (ch. 293).
So 120.000 vs. 70.000. Working together would have been better for Chu.
And The Duke survived with 120.000 - 40.000 and then slightly over 110.000 to 30.000 from second day, iirc.
Last edited by say-and-sing; 03-18-2017 at 08:36 PM.
Well this conversation went in a completely different direction.
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It's weird, I saw the same thing on Kissmanga but I could swear I read somewhere that Moubu had 45k that day and that with the remnants of Rinbukun army Karin had 75k
Can't remember what website I read that on
Weren't all armies the same size? 60k each with a grand total of 180k initially. So they'd have taken out 30k.
I don't think the Chu army surffered that much on the first day, Rinbukun was reached almost instantly by Rokuomi and then by Tou. The fight between Tou and Rinbukun felt rather short so I guess it depends on how long you feel the Rokuomi vs Rinbukun fight lasted
I'd say 30k with mild losses on the first day and low losses on the other when they were fighting conservatively doesn't seem too surprising
They were the same size, but each 50.000 -> total 150.000, see just ch. 278, where it is stated three times.
I don't think the fight lasted to long, but losing their general made Chu vulnerable to stabby-stabby.