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  1. #1

    If the current invasion fails

    If the current Qin invasion of Zhao fails, who's going to take the blame for it? Assume that right now, Ousen will take one of two routes (you can propose more if you can): continue the invasion but ultimately fail the grand objective of taking Gyou or continue invasion under his own grand plans and do as much as he can (not taking Gyou as per SHK's original grand objective) but ultimately retreat in the end.

    Will SHK's blunders demand his demotion(s) and maybe exile/execution?

  2. #2
    I don't think anyone blundered. Riboku is really good, and he'll put up a decent fight before Zhao's inevitable loss.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  3. #3
    Caves's Avatar
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    They'll blame Shoubunkun.

    It's been over A DECADE since that guy last fucked something up.

    "It doesn’t matter how many times you get knocked down. All that matters is you get up one more time than you were knocked down."

  4. #4
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Damn... damn, the invasion actually failing? Riboku seemed too worried back then...

    Now that would be an awesome twist and real shocker, depending on the sacrifice, Riboku (effortlessly) making Qin's three beasts turn tail. Sounds like Crispy's fantasy, aside Chu's palace getting struck by an earthquake.


    If it were to happen I don't think Qin/Ei Sei can punish anyone, let alone execute/exile. Without SHK, they have lost their planner in the back, and making Ousen step up would be as good as making Ousen king. Punishing Yotanwa is out of the question, Kanki is innocent (ha!) and Ousen? Good luck, next thing you know he works for another state.


  5. #5
    Sei doesn't seem like he's tolerate SHK being punished for a legitimate mistake.

    Really, it depends on why it fails.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    I don't think anyone blundered.
    They wasted a whole year, allowing Riboku to further pad the defenses of the west, just to come up with a highly risky plan with little chances of success. Not to mention it's heavily implied Riboku is somewhat ready for it and SHK gave Ousen the okay to completely disregard his plan so he has to take responsibility for whatever Ousen does after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    Damn... damn, the invasion actually failing? Riboku seemed too worried back then...

    Now that would be an awesome twist and real shocker, depending on the sacrifice, Riboku (effortlessly) making Qin's three beasts turn tail. Sounds like Crispy's fantasy, aside Chu's palace getting struck by an earthquake.


    If it were to happen I don't think Qin/Ei Sei can punish anyone, let alone execute/exile. Without SHK, they have lost their planner in the back, and making Ousen step up would be as good as making Ousen king. Punishing Yotanwa is out of the question, Kanki is innocent (ha!) and Ousen? Good luck, next thing you know he works for another state.
    they could exile SHK with possibility of return like Riboku was, Tou could step up in his place.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    They wasted a whole year, allowing Riboku to further pad the defenses of the west, just to come up with a highly risky plan with little chances of success. Not to mention it's heavily implied Riboku is somewhat ready for it and SHK gave Ousen the okay to completely disregard his plan so he has to take responsibility for whatever Ousen does after that.
    If SHK gets responsibility/credit for how the rest of the battle goes, then he'll be rewarded in the end.
    SHK's plan was the best one available. Everyone knew the risks and still went along with it.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    If SHK gets responsibility/credit for how the rest of the battle goes, then he'll be rewarded in the end.
    SHK's plan was the best one available. Everyone knew the risks and still went along with it.
    well, I said in the OP that this is the hypothetical failure route so ...

    Best one for invasion of Zhao at any cost yes, but best course of action overall? No, he got hotheaded after being baited by Riboku and instead of consolidating their hold on Central China (which was even said by Riboku to be the key to Qin's unification), he wants to take Riboku's bait and attack Zhao, knowing full well they're well defended in the west and the Gyou plan was shaky even if it was the best plan. That's another thing he'd have to take responsibility for.

  9. #9
    Depending on how bad they failed, then SHK should be executed or exiled

  10. #10
    Guoan's Avatar
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    If this were Zhao or any other state, SHK would probably be exiled but everyone in Qin should know that SHK is the best military strategist they have. To discard him after one failure would be the same as giving up the goal of unification of China.

  11. #11
    ^
    a military strategist who does something as risky as attacking Gyou?

    next time we see him, he might be thinking of attacking Yan while Zhao and Wei still exist

  12. #12
    Qin needs every talent that they have right now and are gathering more for the goal of unification.

    They wouldn't do anything to Shouheikun.




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  13. #13
    lol

    realisticly if this Zhao invasion plan fails (along with 300k soldiers and 3 GG level guys), then Qin won't be thinking of another invasion for 25 years or so

  14. #14
    Rampaging Beast Thdyingbreed's Avatar
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    SHK is far to vital for them to exile no one else in Qin is capable of planning the strategies required for overseeing the invasions of all the other states if anyone takes the blame it would probably be Ousen because he's in charge of this war.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Thdyingbreed View Post
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    SHK is far to vital for them to exile no one else in Qin is capable of planning the strategies required for overseeing the invasions of all the other states if anyone takes the blame it would probably be Ousen because he's in charge of this war.
    depending on how the fails went, it might actually be a good time to promote Ousen

  16. #16
    Cheif of Wisdom Amol's Avatar
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    If this invasion hypothetically fails then Sei can kiss his dream goodbye forever and Hara can close the manga.
    I don't think Sei would punish anyone. This is mission impossible from day 1. Sei knows that.
    He can't really blame SHK or Ousen for not accomplishing for which a miracle is needed.
    Not to mention Sei is a good guy.
    Now if this was Zhao King he definitely would have punished Riboku by executing him.

  17. #17
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Unless the whole Qin army gets surrounded and slaughtered, which is certainly not going to happen, I don't see how a failure would end Sei's dream.

    Going through the current western Zhao defense would take ten years, but unique/risky approaches would shorten this, as SHK explained. He did not say going for Gyou was their only hope, but extreme risks like going for Gyou are their only option.

    There are still Han and Wei to conquer. Which are both currently hold down only by Tou and Ouki's remnants. So apparently, Han's threat is non existent. So Qin can take those states and have a fresh go at Zhao from a different angle. Or just use Zhao's defensivness while striking at Chu.


  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    Unless the whole Qin army gets surrounded and slaughtered, which is certainly not going to happen, I don't see how a failure would end Sei's dream.
    1. the court won't be united because they will demand SHK to be executed and other shits because they want his position themselves. discontent will open up a lot of room to be spy/agent for other state.

    2. wealth and other shits needed to move 200k people in this war is enormous. not to mention the supplies

    3. morale damage to Qin's army as a whole, especially when they sent out 3 of Qin's best "6 GG level" generals

    4. Riboku will get enough credibility for Coalition #2. maybe not all, but at least Allying with Wei or Chu should be possible to wipe out Qin

  19. #19
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    1. the court won't be united because they will demand SHK to be executed and other shits because they want his position themselves. discontent will open up a lot of room to be spy/agent for other state.

    2. wealth and other shits needed to move 200k people in this war is enormous. not to mention the supplies

    3. morale damage to Qin's army as a whole, especially when they sent out 3 of Qin's best "6 GG level" generals

    4. Riboku will get enough credibility for Coalition #2. maybe not all, but at least Allying with Wei or Chu should be possible to wipe out Qin
    regarding 1.:
    - the court, which court? the guys who Rishi scolded in a nanosecond?
    - btw Rishi made a comeback
    - even crazy Zhao king let Riboku back after the coalition debacle
    - Ei Sei secretly smuggled out his two kids and I am not so sure how many know about his mother; so SHK -> adviser in tower ;)

    regarding 2.:
    - this was never an issue before (especially coalition/or was slightly hinted on KankivsKeisha); while I like how Hara now starts paying attention to it, it would be a rather weak excuse now

    regarding 3.:
    - Qin sent out Ouki (who had the standing of like uber-GG), Tou and Moubu against Riboku (and Houken) and got whopped - and at least since coalition, as Tou and Moubu displayed their might, Qin people should know this was more than just Riboku vs. Ouki back then; still Qin is alive and kicking
    - and tbf, this time around it IS a crazy plan; if Riboku was invading, three GH setting up their perfect defense and getting their asses kicked (again) then yes, I could see Qin being demoralised for years

    regarding 4.
    - a possibility; again, see three; invading and taking out Ouki and Gekishin on their hometurf (more or less) is one thing, stopping a crazy plan, while awesome, is not the same; and let's not forget Sai


  20. #20
    SHK will get brunt of the blame but they won't be executing him anytime soon.

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