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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    In a way we could scale Sasori who is superior to Chiyo who in turn was comparable to Hanzo, someone of such renown figure that gave Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade their legendary sannin titles and is known to be the strongest ninja of his era.

    Hanzou of the Salamander in his prime was so strong to point Prime Jiraiya had trouble fathoming someone to single-handedly defeat him in a fight.

    Just a thought.
    Sasori has a lot of hype outside of that as well, he was often spoken in the same breath as Orochi (who is one of the Sannin) and Deidara himself referred to him as master/or else spoke to him as his superior in most of the dialogue between the two. Which is pretty rare between members of the Akatsuki

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Lol what? Did you get dropped on your head or something? Literally no one else in the Akatsuki has produced a feat like that, not impressive my arse. The only one who could probably do something on that scale is pain.
    - How big is the country?
    - How many people were in it?
    - Were there any ninjas who defended against Sasori, or was it not a shinobi country at all?
    - How strong were the defenders and how many were there?
    - Exactly how did Sasori bring down the country? Did he take on its whole military force or did he just infiltrated the home of the rulers and destroyed them all?

    We know none of these things, so you're wanking as far as I'm concerned as the feat isn't enough to put him above where he's generally placed combat-wise.

    So whats your point? It isnt his speciality so clearly he has been nerfed in the fight with Sakura, the fact he has overcome his weakness to the point where he can overpower someone with Tsunade level strength whose movements where being controlled by a master puppeteer who had pretty near full intel on him speaks volumes of just how good a fighter he was.
    lolwut?

    Sasori is adept at fighting close-quarters as he weaponrized himself to be able to do so. If anything, Sakura is the one at the disadvantage here given the lethality of Sasori's poison, range of weaponry, and his far superior speed....compared to someone who can only just punch. No one is denying he's a deadly fighter, but I wouldn't put him above Kakuzu and Kisame.
    Last edited by Egress; 03-16-2017 at 02:36 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Egress View Post
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    - How big is the country?
    - How many people were in it?
    - Were there any ninjas who defended against Sasori, or was it not a shinobi country at all?
    - How strong were the defenders and how many were there?
    - Exactly how did Sasori bring down the country? Did he take on its whole military force or did he just infiltrated the home of the rulers and destroyed them all?

    We know none of these things, so you're wanking as far as I'm concerned as the feat isn't enough to put him above where he's generally placed combat-wise.


    lolwut?

    Sasori is adept at fighting close-quarters as he weaponrized himself to be able to do so. If anything, Sakura is the one at the disadvantage here given the lethality of Sasori's poison, range of weaponry, and his far superior speed....compared to someone who can only just punch. No one is denying he's a deadly fighter, but I wouldn't put him above Kakuzu and Kisame.
    What is your level of reading comprehension? Serious question here. From a storyline point of view we're clearly meant to see it as an incredible feat otherwise Kishimoto wouldnt have bothered to highlight. Who even cares about any of that stuff, no ninja has done something up to now on the level where they have sacked a freaking country. Like I'm legitimately questioning your intelligence here to not look at the bigger picture. No offence.

    So whats your point exactly? A puppet master is at his strongest in mid to short range combat and not in close quarters. So Sasori being able to fight like that in CQC against arguably one of the most deadly CQC opponents in the manga whose movements and reactions where nigh maxed out by a master puppeteer is an oustanding feat and far above what most Akatsuki have shown. Like Im having an aneurysm explaining this. Yes Sasori weaponised himself, but none of that changes that how adept his fighting style should be as a puppeteer from that distance.
    Last edited by Flair; 03-16-2017 at 10:01 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivecta View Post
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    Are people forgetting Itachi was swapping hand with Bijuu Naruto and his sasano can extra souls? He didn't even unlock the strongest version of his eye and he had.
    itachi is the strong but nagato is stronger

  5. #25
    Nagato is the strongest of the Akatsuki, no clue how you any of you think this is debatable.

    Rinnegan Tobi without his bijuu was no different from regular MS Obito. You need to actually adjust to it.

  6. #26
    Super Saiyan God Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genbu View Post
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    Nagato is the strongest of the Akatsuki, no clue how you any of you think this is debatable.

    Rinnegan Tobi without his bijuu was no different from regular MS Obito. You need to actually adjust to it.
    Nagato could barely handle the Kyuubi when Tobi, back when he was 16 years old, could completely control the 100% Kyuubi and fight against Minato at the same time.

    "The Lord of Death"

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    Nagato could barely handle the Kyuubi when Tobi, back when he was 16 years old, could completely control the 100% Kyuubi and fight against Minato at the same time.
    Sorry, I believe you mean an already exhausted and crippled (not referring to stamina here, as in his state of body) Nagato, could barely Kyuubi.

    Not impressed. Sharingan having mind control is one of its abilities and seems to be a lot more effective on Bijuu than it is high-level shinobi. That's not going to work on Rinnegan which has canon resistance to genjutsu and is a lot more varied and powerful in its capabilities.

    Minato without the Kyuubi was de-hyped in the war and his feats wouldn't even place him above a healthy Itachi. Nagato would destroy him too. Not to mention Obito arguably lost that fight to Minato.
    Last edited by Genbu; 03-18-2017 at 12:58 AM.

  8. #28
    Super Saiyan God Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genbu View Post
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    Sorry, I believe you mean an already exhausted and crippled (not referring to stamina here, as in his state of body) Nagato, could barely Kyuubi.

    Not impressed. Sharingan having mind control is one of its abilities and seems to be a lot more effective on Bijuu than it is high-level shinobi. That's not going to work on Rinnegan which has canon resistance to genjutsu and is a lot more varied and powerful in its capabilities.

    Minato without the Kyuubi was de-hyped in the war and his feats wouldn't even place him above a healthy Itachi. Nagato would destroy him too. Not to mention Obito arguably lost that fight to Minato.
    What do you think a full strength Nagato could do then? Kyuubi would still break out of the Chibaku Tensei, his strongest jutsu.

    Since when was it more effective on the Bijuus? It's not like Tobi's genjutsu could be compared to anyone other than Madara considering he's got both the Uchiha and Senju blood in him. Tobi's Kamui is far more versatile than Nagato's basic rinnegan abilties. All of it would be rendered useless against Tobi's kamui to slip through things.

    De-hyped? How? By getting destroyed by Juudara and Juubito? Sorry, but even if Itachi and Nagato fought together, they'll still get wrecked by the two. Minato is stronger than Tobi who in turn is stronger than Nagato and Itachi.

    "The Lord of Death"

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    What do you think a full strength Nagato could do then? Kyuubi would still break out of the Chibaku Tensei, his strongest jutsu.
    A full-powered Kyuubi is stronger than Nagato

    but what makes you think Obito, the guy who lost to Kakashi, is stronger than Kyuubi?

    Since when was it more effective on the Bijuus?
    Since we saw time and again that sharingan were used to control jinchuuriki, bijuu or defeated opponents alike but when do we see Sasuke using sharingan mind control to take down Raikage, Danzo, Bee or even Deidara? Why did nobody try this on Naruto who has practically zero experience combatting it?


    De-hyped? How? By getting destroyed by Juudara and Juubito?
    By accomplishing practically nothing.

    Sorry, but even if Itachi and Nagato fought together, they'll still get wrecked by the two. Minato is stronger than Tobi who in turn is stronger than Nagato and Itachi.
    Because you say so?

    Wrong, we go by feats here. The assorted abilities within the rinnegan and Itachi's MS prowess would destroy Minato and Tobi.

    How in the world is Kamui more versatile than Rinnegan? It has a single facet to its ability, and one that's damn exploitable. There's a reason why nearly all the most powerful characters in the story are rocking the rinnegan or some variation of it.
    Last edited by Genbu; 03-18-2017 at 01:17 AM.

  10. #30
    Super Saiyan God Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genbu View Post
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    A full-powered Kyuubi is stronger than Nagato

    but what makes you think Obito, the guy who lost to Kakashi, is stronger than Kyuubi?
    Did you actually forgot how Tobi took full control of the full power Kyuubi with a single glance!?


    Since we saw time and again that sharingan were used to control jinchuuriki, bijuu or defeated opponents alike but when do we see Sasuke using sharingan mind control to take down Raikage, Danzo, Bee or even Deidara? Why did nobody try this on Naruto who has practically zero experience combatting it?
    Sasuke tried it on Bee and Danzo and it worked. But to compare Sasuke's usage of it to Tobi's...

    Sasuke's genjutsu isn't even particularly strong compared to Itachi's or Tobi's. The only one to actually control the Bijuus with their sharingan are Tobi and Madara, as well as EoS Sasuke. That's it.

    By accomplishing practically nothing.

    Nagato and Itachi would accomplish even less than what Minato did. What will Nagato and Itachi do when Juubito fires off 4 bijuudama? Nothing. What will Nagato and Itachi do to support Naruto and Sasuke against Juubito? Absolutely nothing.

    Because you say so?

    Wrong, we go by feats here. The assorted abilities within the rinnegan and Itachi's MS prowess would destroy Minato and Tobi.

    How in the world is Kamui more versatile than Rinnegan? It has a single facet to its ability, and one that's damn exploitable. There's a reason why nearly all the most powerful characters in the story are rocking the rinnegan or some variation of it.
    Because the manga says so.

    We go by feats

    >Tobi would get rekt by Itachi and Nagato
    >lol

    Could you think before you post?

    Yeah, it's exploitable BECAUSE they happened to have Kakashi who also happen to have the same MS ability which allowed BM Naruto to actually land a single hit. Nagato didn't awaken the Rinnegan, he can't use it's full power and he only have access to the basic abilities of the Rinnegan.

    "The Lord of Death"

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    Did you actually forgot how Tobi took full control of the full power Kyuubi with a single glance!?
    Do I care?

    Obito can mind control a Bijuu. Big deal. Doesn't put him remotely on Nagato's tier because he's going about it with hax Kurama is susceptible to.

    Do you not understand how powerscaling works? Because you would have to be utterly deluded to think Obito's stronger than Kyuubi because that would make Minato stronger than Kyuubi and if you think that, I strongly suggest you re-read the entire manga from chapter 1.

    Obito's actual performance in combat is nothing special. He was pushed by Danzo's anbu, had to resort to Izanagi to beat Konan and lost to Kakashi.

    Even Pain would decimate these guys with a single maneuver if he was bloodlusted.


    Sasuke tried it on Bee and Danzo and it worked. But to compare Sasuke's usage of it to Tobi's...
    Uh no. He tried it on them and he failed, both times.

    That isn't even the kind of genjutsu I'm talking about here. Its mind-control which is a standard ability of even the regular sharingan. Danzo even said that Sasuke would be able to control the Kyuubi and he thought that was the reason Hiruzen put them both on the same team.

    Sasuke's genjutsu isn't even particularly strong compared to Itachi's or Obito
    Proof?

    Because all I'm seeing here is circular logic.

    Nagato and Itachi would accomplish even less than what Minato did. What will Nagato and Itachi do when Juubito fires off 4 bijuudama? Nothing. What will Nagato and Itachi do to support Naruto and Sasuke against Juubito? Absolutely nothing.
    lol.

    only reason Minato wasn't killed on the onset of Juubito's emergence was because Tobirama bailed his ass out.

    Because the manga says so.
    Scans where the manga calls Obito superior to Itachi and Nagato. I'll wait.

    Conversely, wasn't he the one who admitted Pain was invincible?

    Yeah, it's exploitable BECAUSE they happened to have Kakashi who also happen to have the same MS ability
    Uh no. Its exploitable because it has a glaring weakness in Obito needing to materialize in this dimension for him to use Kamui offensively which is fucking fatal.

    But I'm glad you're actually using your brain this time because compatibility actually matters in a fight. Who'd have thought?

    You know there's a reason why I've said Nagato is stronger than Obito and not made any attempt at Nagato vs Obito. Because that would be an outright stomp for Nagato who counters Obito hard with Shinra Tensei, multiple eyes/summons, Genjutsu resistance etc etc
    Nagato needs but a single thought to one-shot Obito. The latter on the other hand, needs to somehow get in his blind spot (hard as hell evidenced by Naruto vs Pain), materialize, grab him and then suck him in. All the while Nagato just needs to think Shinra Tensei.

    But unlike you, I'm not dumb enough to think who wins a fight = who is more powerful.

    Let's check the math?

    DC? Nagato by a mile
    Versatility? Nagato by a mile
    Intellect? Obito to a notable extent
    Speed? Equal for short distances. Obito for long ones due to facing the same opponents with comparable ease.
    Range? Nagato by an ungodly margin
    Stamina? LOL.

    On what planet is Obito superior?



    Nagato didn't awaken the Rinnegan, he can't use it's full power
    Proof that needing to possess the Rinnegan naturally means it can't be mastered? I mean, not like it matters because this is a strawman. The feats Nagato already possess make him stronger than Obito. Call me when Obito is good enough to take on almost the entire Leaf village solo in a far inferior body.
    Last edited by Genbu; 03-18-2017 at 03:37 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    What is your level of reading comprehension? Serious question here. From a storyline point of view we're clearly meant to see it as an incredible feat otherwise Kishimoto wouldnt have bothered to highlight. Who even cares about any of that stuff, no ninja has done something up to now on the level where they have sacked a freaking country. Like I'm legitimately questioning your intelligence here to not look at the bigger picture. No offence.
    Who cares? We're looking at their combat ability, specifically in terms of power, speed, versatility, etc. You believe that taking down an unknown country of an unknown military strength is a more impressive combat feat than people who have more tangible, on-panel feats which indicate better stats all-around. Plenty of people stronger than sasori can't take down a country like he can. You're going nowhere with your Sasori wank, and you clearly have no grasp over what's being debated here.

    So whats your point exactly? A puppet master is at his strongest in mid to short range combat and not in close quarters. So Sasori being able to fight like that in CQC against arguably one of the most deadly CQC opponents in the manga whose movements and reactions where nigh maxed out by a master puppeteer is an oustanding feat and far above what most Akatsuki have shown. Like Im having an aneurysm explaining this. Yes Sasori weaponised himself, but none of that changes that how adept his fighting style should be as a puppeteer from that distance.
    Such stupidity, and again no grasp over what's being debated here.

    First, Sasori never fought Sakura in CQC. It was always mid-to-long range and he was winning in that regard. Their only close encounters were when she shattered him into pieces
    and when he caught her off guard after displacing his heart to another puppet, forcing Sakura to take a poisoned strike meant for Chiyo

    Second, who cares about Sakura? Sasori beating her is only natural given how he has better range/AoE and poison...versus someone who can only punch. Your argument is completely based on Sasori beating someone who should have an ability advantage against him.... when in reality, it's Sasori who's a bad matchup for her. All you've proven is that he's more versatile than what you'd expect from a Kugutsu master. Beating Sakura who was controlled by Chiyo doesn't make Sasori a top-tier Akatsuki member. Sakura is shit in comparison to the guys who Kakuzu and Kisame faced, and those two do have better combat feats:

    Kakuzu was handling Kakashi, Ino, and Choji and it took a technique which could specifically split cells within cityblock AoE from Naruto aided by Yamato and Kakashi to take him out. Kakuzu is a veteran shinobi who can spam three huge-ass blasts from Raiton, Katon, and Fuuton, firepower well beyond what Sasori is capable of dishing out, and tanked hits from Nibi.

    Kisame defeated Roshi, nearly beat Bee, and it took gai to unleash the 7th gate to take him out. despite not having his sword. A Kisame clone only at 30% power forced Gai to release the Sixth Gate. Kisame reacted to V1 Bee who shits on Sasori in terms of speed, and can flood the area with a lake of water before shoving 1000 Shark Missiles up his target's ass.

    Feats showed that those two have better speed, dura, power, range, and are versatile themselves. Best I'll agree to is putting Sasori and Kakuzu on the same level, but even then the latter is stronger.
    Last edited by Egress; 03-18-2017 at 05:34 AM.

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