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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    He would be too prideful to run, and even if he did decide to run he doesn't know flame hare. He's dead on day 1.
    Imagine for a second he gets a jackpot on the luck scale and gets out alive. Think he'll regroup to burn the hill?
    I'm talking about martial might, we're comparing the two of them in fighting strength. Rinbunkun would sweep up the fodders and clown Kisui just as bad as Zenou did.

  2. #42
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    @Kanki;

    Tou knew who was coming, and he knew that he was already advancing from the left which can be seen here:


    On the next page we him retreating already and running in the opposite direction, when RBH attacks him.

    While he might have seen him in attack range already, he knew who was coming and how to react to him. But like I said in my previous post, we'll assume that Tou got surprised as well.

    As for Zenou's hit, we seem him in a resting position on this page:


    If you take a look at the next page, so you can see how little he moved in comparison to the previous panel:

    There is no way that such a little motion counts as a full powered swing.

    You too can answer the question from my previous post, regarding the strength to obliterate a 90str opponent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luffee View Post
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    How did Kisui jump to 90 in the first place?
    Did you even bother reading my post?

    It's a hypothetical number that accounts for the surprise factor, which I got from the Tou/RBH duel. It's nothing official, just me having some fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    I'm talking about martial might, we're comparing the two of them in fighting strength. Rinbunkun would sweep up the fodders and clown Kisui just as bad as Zenou did.
    Alright, you said in the arc so I responded to that. In just that clash, he might replicate Zenou's feats, I agree. So what str would you give Zenou?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    I wouldn't say a guy with a tragic past and a string of small scale battles under his belt has a "general's" weight. After all, he's more like their nanny and not a general that has the fates of tens of thousands of soldiers or even hundreds of thousands of civilians on his shoulders i.e. a whole state's fate riding on his battles. He's a big frog in a well whereas to have that general's weight, you'd have to be a big fish in an ocean imo.

    The people of Rigan are more of a burden on him as seen with Kanki than they are a source of strength for him.
    I'm not too sure about that. Having someone to protect has never been a burden, unless they are in immediate vicinity of the fight(he has to take hits for them or something).
    Either way, Zenou who doesn't bat an eye at Kanki killing some of his men certainly does not possess any weight at this moment. He is fueled by rage and blood thirst, nothing else. No noble pursuit, no greater goal. Just carnage.

  3. #43
    @Zentos;

    I didn't understand that bit of your post at first. But now I do

    I don't think you can can just add surprise factors to strength like that. Especially +4 is giant friggin difference. Zenou saw him coming far enough that I don't think it's that big of a advantage as you're making it out to be.


    Also i wouldn't add +2 to Tou's stat either. As Tou's parrying should already be a part of his 96 stat.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Alright, you said in the arc so I responded to that. In just that clash, he might replicate Zenou's feats, I agree. So what str would you give Zenou?
    It's hard to say, we don't have enough substantial feats to make a concrete guess. I'd probably peg him round 92-93 for now, physically above some other noteworthy destructive vassals like Rokuomi and Kaishibou, but needs to show more before I place him at Ranbihaku level.

  5. #45
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luffee View Post
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    @Zentos;

    I didn't understand that bit of your post at first. But now I do

    I don't think you can can just add surprise factors to strength like that. Especially +4 is giant friggin difference. Zenou saw him coming far enough that I don't think it's that big of a advantage as you're making it out to be.


    Also i wouldn't add +2 to Tou's stat either. As Tou's parrying should already be a part of his 96 stat.
    You are ruining all the fun.

    I was just being creative.
    But I still don't think parry counts to his 96. Everyone else parries as well, he has a special skill.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    @Kanki;

    Tou knew who was coming, and he knew that he was already advancing from the left which can be seen here:


    On the next page we him retreating already and running in the opposite direction, when RBH attacks him.

    While he might have seen him in attack range already, he knew who was coming and how to react to him. But like I said in my previous post, we'll assume that Tou got surprised as well.
    We can't do anything but assume that. We saw it due to the "hm?" from Tou. Sure he knew Wei would attack from the side (or he suspected it could), but he didn't expect Ranbihaku to be feet from him all of a sudden.

    If you actually compare the pages you linked with Zenou noticing Kisui to Tou and Ranbihaku you'll find that they're the same. The very next page (as in instantly) after the noticing, there is an instant clash. They basically had similar time to respond.

    Although I'm not exactly sure how we can compare the two given that Ranbihaku is 8 points higher than Kisui. A huge gap.
    As for Zenou's hit, we seem him in a resting position on this page:


    If you take a look at the next page, so you can see how little he moved in comparison to the previous panel:

    There is no way that such a little motion counts as a full powered swing.
    The eyes in Zenou tell you he was 100 bloodlust in that moment though. That's a huge difference from "zero effort whatsoever". Zenou has never shown the ability to hold back in any way. Btw I'm not doubting Zenou's physical strength - he can crush skulls with his bare hand. If anything my argument would be that his skill level with the mace is why he isn't above a 93.

    You too can answer the question from my previous post, regarding the strength to obliterate a 90str opponent.

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    What question?

  7. #47
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    I had my share of fun
    We'll see what Zenou has to show in the future. I just hope he doesn't get fodderized for plot/hype reasons.

    @Kanki;

    Never mind about the question, Luffee killed it.

  8. #48
    a bit late to join the party lol, but eh... Personally Zenou is 94 at most.

    for Kisui's "weight", I don't think we ever see weight as +4 or +5.. i thought we're usually using weight as +2 at most? and that's Ouki level GG weight.
    for Kisui himself, it's not really a weight lol... if it's a weight, then peasants in Sai have about more generals' weight than Kisui. It's more about morale and mentality of going all out since you can't lose

  9. #49
    Man of 1004 Gifts Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I'm not too sure about that. Having someone to protect has never been a burden, unless they are in immediate vicinity of the fight(he has to take hits for them or something).
    Either way, Zenou who doesn't bat an eye at Kanki killing some of his men certainly does not possess any weight at this moment. He is fueled by rage and blood thirst, nothing else. No noble pursuit, no greater goal. Just carnage.
    Kisui had to rush back the immediate moment he thought Kanki was headed to Rigan, therefore forfeiting the battle. Pretty much a burden there as he's worried about their well being and the past constantly haunts him.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    The eyes in Zenou tell you he was 100 bloodlust in that moment though. That's a huge difference from "zero effort whatsoever". Zenou has never shown the ability to hold back in any way. Btw I'm not doubting Zenou's physical strength - he can crush skulls with his bare hand. If anything my argument would be that his skill level with the mace is why he isn't above a 93.
    When was Zenou not bloodthirsty in all the panels he's appeared in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    a bit late to join the party lol, but eh... Personally Zenou is 94 at most.

    for Kisui's "weight", I don't think we ever see weight as +4 or +5.. i thought we're usually using weight as +2 at most? and that's Ouki level GG weight.
    for Kisui himself, it's not really a weight lol... if it's a weight, then peasants in Sai have about more generals' weight than Kisui. It's more about morale and mentality of going all out since you can't lose
    Ouki's Great General Weight is way more than +2

    Houken's strength is actually over 100 stated by Hara, he just doesn't like to list numbers over 100.



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  11. #51
    I do think Zenou is probably around 94-95 category and he is the strongest fighter in Kanki's army since kanki himself is sitting at 93, we can clearly see how beast he is when fighting side by side with Raido another 90 str fighter


    I agreed with Zentos about Zenou position when dealing with Kisui surprise attack. unlike Tou who already on the defense formation after caught glimpse what happen to his army, Zenou is on mission to kill Keisha and confined in a tight space plus with perfect momentum from the hill is giving Kisui much bigger advantage than Ranbihaku against Tou.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    When was Zenou not bloodthirsty in all the panels he's appeared in?

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    Look at the eyes. Basically shows Zenou was extra blood thirsty/serious at that moment.

  13. #53
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    Kisui had to rush back the immediate moment he thought Kanki was headed to Rigan, therefore forfeiting the battle. Pretty much a burden there as he's worried about their well being and the past constantly haunts him.
    That was post-battle and does not affect his combat strength. If anything, had he run into Kanki there, he himself might have been bloodthirsty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Look at the eyes. Basically shows Zenou was extra blood thirsty/serious at that moment.
    His eyes are always like that, doesn't make a difference here.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    His eyes are always like that, doesn't make a difference here.
    Look at your avatar!

  15. #55
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Look at your avatar!
    Sorry, but I fail to see the difference:


  16. #56
    kanki and zenou fighting against each other

  17. #57
    Man of 1004 Gifts Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    That was post-battle and does not affect his combat strength. If anything, had he run into Kanki there, he himself might have been bloodthirsty.
    it does when he's more worried about their safety than legitimately angry that Kanki would go after them. I highly doubt he'd be Ouki style mad if the Rigan people were killed, he's too soft imo
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Sorry, but I fail to see the difference:

    Look at the panel I posted when he actually hit Kisui. It went white, which is what Hara has always used when showing a character being deadly serious.

    I mean, do you really think Zenou held back at all? It's OOC for him to do so. He doesn't show mercy and he doesn't hold back. He's a brutal savage of a beast.

  19. #59
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Look at the panel I posted when he actually hit Kisui. It went white, which is what Hara has always used when showing a character being deadly serious.

    I mean, do you really think Zenou held back at all? It's OOC for him to do so. He doesn't show mercy and he doesn't hold back. He's a brutal savage of a beast.
    It's not about holding back, it's about being phisically unable to take a proper swing from that stance. He was forced to hit him with less than half a backhand. A full backhand or forehand, not to mention a downward swing, would blow Kisui to pieces.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    It's not about holding back, it's about being phisically unable to take a proper swing from that stance. He was forced to hit him with less than half a backhand. A full backhand or forehand, not to mention a downward swing, would blow Kisui to pieces.
    You said absolutely zero effort though, which isn't the case or the eyes wouldn't be like that. I wouldn't really expect Kisui to be able to tank a full on smash from Zenou anyway given the strength difference. Kisui would need to be much smarter and not let Zenou land any offensive blows (like how Tou was blitzing Rinbukun for much of it). Though he's not capable given he's an 86.

    It wouldn't be that surprising if Zenou is a mid 90's. My theory is that he simply has never shown anything to suggest we can put him up there.

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