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  1. #41
    it's not first come first serve you know

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  2. #42
    nah, it's a test game, so i don't really like overlap choice for myself.

    more things that can be test is better imo

  3. #43
    I feel like Wei is shit lol. How about making chariots and siege equipment half off?

    So 1 point for 200 chariots, 1 point for 40 ballistas, and whatever half price is for siege towers.

    How about for Yan:

    elite cap is double and half price. So 1 point for 2k elites and cap is double. So for Karin you can get 20k of her elites.

    Wei bonus:
    Mighty chariots- able to buy elite Wei chariots regardless if you have a general that has buyable chariot units
    Siege specialist- able to get siege weaponry for free (basic ballistas and siege towers, limit 10 and 2 respectively, you can buy more though)
    Last edited by felixng2015; 03-07-2017 at 01:51 AM.

  4. #44
    Eh, I just think the siege weapon will make it interesting because I need to change what I do to use them lol... Not saying it's great.

    Yan seems better valued, but it's too straight and doesn't change too much game play

  5. #45
    No Han bonus?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    I feel like Wei is shit lol. How about making chariots and siege equipment half off?

    So 1 point for 200 chariots, 1 point for 40 ballistas, and whatever half price is for siege towers.

    How about for Yan:

    elite cap is double and half price. So 1 point for 2k elites and cap is double. So for Karin you can get 20k of her elites.

    Wei bonus:
    Mighty chariots- able to buy elite Wei chariots regardless if you have a general that has buyable chariot units
    Siege specialist- able to get siege weaponry for free (basic ballistas and siege towers, limit 10 and 2 respectively, you can buy more though)
    i suggested some free starting chariots for wei at first, but Void says that it might be too overpowered

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    No Han bonus?
    we kinda don't have any idea for Han lol...
    Last edited by gn_x00; 03-07-2017 at 02:09 AM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    we kinda don't have any idea for Han lol...
    Han is a tough one, since it's only really shown one person of note. Maybe go for it's role in the story as the buffer zone of sorts, a state so puny that it's sort of protected by stronger guys. It's basically in the dead center of China and you can't attack Han without getting attacked yourself.

    Buffer Zone- Able to buy any elites regardless of whether or not you possess the appropriate generals
    External Support- Able to place a single general anywhere on the map as long as it's outside the opponent's starting area.

  8. #48
    gotta say that it's interesting

    it will definitely change the dynamic of the game while it's (probably) not that overpowered since it's only a single general


  9. #49
    How about this for Han:

    Outside Intervention: Choose one player to aid you that isn't yourself or the opponent you are facing and choose the location for them to be placed in.

    A random general caliber commander from their team(No GGs, or lower than general ranking commanders) will arrive to aid you with 20k troops(troop count can be less if this is imbalanced). They will act as your allies but will do their own thing and act in character.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    I feel like Wei is shit lol. How about making chariots and siege equipment half off?

    So 1 point for 200 chariots, 1 point for 40 ballistas, and whatever half price is for siege towers.

    How about for Yan:

    elite cap is double and half price. So 1 point for 2k elites and cap is double. So for Karin you can get 20k of her elites.

    Wei bonus:
    Mighty chariots- able to buy elite Wei chariots regardless if you have a general that has buyable chariot units
    Siege specialist- able to get siege weaponry for free (basic ballistas and siege towers, limit 10 and 2 respectively, you can buy more though)
    I'm down for half off Wei chariots


    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    Han is a tough one, since it's only really shown one person of note. Maybe go for it's role in the story as the buffer zone of sorts, a state so puny that it's sort of protected by stronger guys. It's basically in the dead center of China and you can't attack Han without getting attacked yourself.

    Buffer Zone- Able to buy any elites regardless of whether or not you possess the appropriate generals
    External Support- Able to place a single general anywhere on the map as long as it's outside the opponent's starting area.
    first one is way too overpowered, I'd feel like it'd be way too favorable in conventional matches, you could skimp out on paying a premium for Yotanwa/Gekishin/Riboku/Duke Hyou and get their elites to pair with your brutes to just slaughter whole teams.

    Second one sounds fun but what are the restrictions?

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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    first one is way too overpowered, I'd feel like it'd be way too favorable in conventional matches, you could skimp out on paying a premium for Yotanwa/Gekishin/Riboku/Duke Hyou and get their elites to pair with your brutes to just slaughter whole teams.

    Second one sounds fun but what are the restrictions?
    For first one, doubling the price for those elites without general would be good enough restriction imo.. or should we triple the points needed? triple would defeat the purpose though.. since it's very expensive

    2 points (or 3 points) for 1.000 elites (can't buy with 1 points)

    for 2nd one:
    - only 1 general
    - 50k troops max?
    Last edited by gn_x00; 03-07-2017 at 03:22 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    For first one, doubling the price for those elites without general would be good enough restriction imo.. or should we triple the points needed? triple would defeat the purpose though.. since it's very expensive

    2 points (or 3 points) for 1.000 elites (can't buy with 1 points)

    for 2nd one:
    - only 1 general
    - 50k troops max?
    I was thinking triple since it has to be expensive to offset the brokenness. You can still buy prep for 1 point a day but one is stupid if they get the Han bonus and don't leave themselves with enough budget left to exploit it.

    A potential third of an enemy army at your doorstep already? That's pretty scary, especially if it's fast cavalry/mountain men with Rinko or Ranbihaku. tfw ideas for the Han state bonus are more powerful than Han itself.

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  13. #53
    well... in a way Han is formidable lol... that's why this state hasn't been destroyed yet as of now

    anyway, after reading felix' idea what if we choose a Qi like approach?

    Outside Intervention
    use 3 prep days to get help from 1 general of other players (not your enemy) which is bought at 25 point or less (only 1 general per match maximum)

    External Support
    use 3 prep days to place a single general anywhere on the map as long as it's outside the opponent's starting area.
    restriction: 1 general + 25k troops

    obviously they need to buy ton of prep days if they want to use both per match

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    first one is way too overpowered, I'd feel like it'd be way too favorable in conventional matches, you could skimp out on paying a premium for Yotanwa/Gekishin/Riboku/Duke Hyou and get their elites to pair with your brutes to just slaughter whole teams.

    Second one sounds fun but what are the restrictions?
    There were no Yotanwa, Gekishin, Riboku, or Duke Hyou elites in any of the teams in the OP. It's things like mountain men, Mangoku zombies, HSU, and bandits which don't seem overpowered at all, the only ones who might turn the tides are the poison troops; but I wouldn't say that alone is a bigger advantage then Chu's bolstered numbers or just being able to get your standard elites 50% off. The elites are only good if paired with a monster, you can't just toss Duke Hyou elites onto Choutou and expect him to became an unstoppable force, he'd just get a marginal boost; I've yet to see the match where elites served as the big game-changer that turned around an otherwise losing strategy into a victory, at most they can just tip the scales of an otherwise even match which I figured was the point of these bonuses. This one is easy to find a limitation for anyways, just make it so that buying elites outside of your group is either more expensive or you get half the usual amount per point, then it's balanced again.

    The restriction on the second one was that only a single general can be placed outside of the opening territory. It means you can't just build an OP army anywhere, you can place a general in a strategic key position, but they would be isolated from all of their support and would have to wait for them to arrive before showing up. Which means you can't just plan an attack right in the enemies face since the lone dude would quickly get overwhelmed by the entire team. A further limitation would be putting a cap on the amount of soldiers the lone general could take with him, say a cap of 50k that one can take out of their boundaries in the setup phase, so they can't just bring the entire army outside the zone while leaving the generals in their territory bare. Say you fought gn_x, you could have had your GHM start across that river so that you wouldn't have to fight for it, but he would be at risk of being wiped out by the massive Karin army. Someone with Kanki could set him up closer to the enemy HQ for a good ambush later on, but if the enemy knows of his bonus then they could plan for this. I think the risk/reward factor could make it an interesting and useful perk without being overpowered.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    well... in a way Han is formidable lol... that's why this state hasn't been destroyed yet as of now

    anyway, after reading felix' idea what if we choose a Qi like approach?

    Outside Intervention
    use 3 prep days to get help from 1 general of other players (not your enemy) which is bought at 25 point or less (only 1 general per match maximum)

    External Support
    use 3 prep days to place a single general anywhere on the map as long as it's outside the opponent's starting area.
    restriction: 1 general + 25k troops

    obviously they need to buy ton of prep days if they want to use both per match
    Sounds interesting only reason im iffy on the 25 point thing is someone could get a really good general for cheap but since you say general there I am guessing that excludes ggs so that should be ok.
    Last edited by felixng2015; 03-07-2017 at 04:04 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    There were no Yotanwa, Gekishin, Riboku, or Duke Hyou elites in any of the teams in the OP. It's things like mountain men, Mangoku zombies, HSU, and bandits which don't seem overpowered at all, the only ones who might turn the tides are the poison troops; but I wouldn't say that alone is a bigger advantage then Chu's bolstered numbers or just being able to get your standard elites 50% off. The elites are only good if paired with a monster, you can't just toss Duke Hyou elites onto Choutou and expect him to became an unstoppable force, he'd just get a marginal boost; I've yet to see the match where elites served as the big game-changer that turned around an otherwise losing strategy into a victory, at most they can just tip the scales of an otherwise even match which I figured was the point of these bonuses. This one is easy to find a limitation for anyways, just make it so that buying elites outside of your group is either more expensive or you get half the usual amount per point, then it's balanced again.
    you said any, so I meant you were meaning any. But I was speaking in the sense of our traditional games as well.

    Bajio and Shunmen are in this mid tiers game, and I even forgot about Seikai.

    Very true but seeing as how this is a game for mid tiers and we've cut the 300k in half, I imagine elites could be a bigger difference maker here, especially with the other Han proposed bonus. And what made Duke Hyou's offense exceptional was his men, I imagine Choutou can't get much anywhere if he is countered right away with an officer that is 87+ martial but sic him and the Duke Hyou soldiers on forces led by pure strategists like Fuuki or what not and he'd wreck more havoc than one would think.

    The restriction on the second one was that only a single general can be placed outside of the opening territory. It means you can't just build an OP army anywhere, you can place a general in a strategic key position, but they would be isolated from all of their support and would have to wait for them to arrive before showing up. Which means you can't just plan an attack right in the enemies face since the lone dude would quickly get overwhelmed by the entire team. A further limitation would be putting a cap on the amount of soldiers the lone general could take with him, say a cap of 50k that one can take out of their boundaries in the setup phase, so they can't just bring the entire army outside the zone while leaving the generals in their territory bare. Say you fought gn_x, you could have had your GHM start across that river so that you wouldn't have to fight for it, but he would be at risk of being wiped out by the massive Karin army. Someone with Kanki could set him up closer to the enemy HQ for a good ambush later on, but if the enemy knows of his bonus then they could plan for this. I think the risk/reward factor could make it an interesting and useful perk without being overpowered.
    True, it'd be much easier to solo/fight if I put Moubu in the front right away or Ousen on a choice mountain and hill but in this case, someone like Ranbihaku or even worse, Rinko could still wreck havoc on an enemy as long as you give him the immediate back up to do so.

    I like the idea though but I say if we go with 50k cap, no elites are allowed to be deployed this way. It'll make it harder for someone with the best brutes to solo a team but he can still do damage. Now, do we allow prep clauses to be effective with this special deployment?

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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    Sounds interesting only reason im iffy on the 25 point thing is someone could get a really good general for cheap but since you say general there I am guessing that excludes ggs so that should be ok.
    well... it's their fault for buying them cheap lol.. in traditional game the best GGs that matter the most are sold at 50+ anyway. Even Ordo is sold at 40 last game. Gaimou was 42 too, at 25, IIRC it's Choutou level at best.

    oh, the CYK 4's super low price is ofc, a joke since it's crispy fault anyway

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    I'm down for half off Wei chariots



    first one is way too overpowered, I'd feel like it'd be way too favorable in conventional matches, you could skimp out on paying a premium for Yotanwa/Gekishin/Riboku/Duke Hyou and get their elites to pair with your brutes to just slaughter whole teams.

    Second one sounds fun but what are the restrictions?
    How about this:

    Wei comes with:

    Free:
    1k wei chariots (2k cap)
    2 siege towers (5 cap)
    40 ballistas (200 cap)

    Chariots are half price so its 1 point for 200, they can only go above the cap by buying a general who has war chariots who also has half off. I forgot the price of siege towers. Ballistas would be 1 point for 40 instead of 20.

    I don't think this is too game breaking tbh but maybe the numbers could be changed a bit.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    How about this:

    Wei comes with:

    Free:
    1k wei chariots (2k cap)
    2 siege towers (5 cap)
    40 ballistas (200 cap)

    Chariots are half price so its 1 point for 200, they can only go above the cap by buying a general who has war chariots who also has half off. I forgot the price of siege towers. Ballistas would be 1 point for 40 instead of 20.

    I don't think this is too game breaking tbh but maybe the numbers could be changed a bit.
    if they get 1k chariots for free already I don't see why they would be in a rush to get more more, even if it's cheaper. Mind you, we'd be playing attack versus defense and there's no guarantee all equal maps will be super flat.

    I'd rather we give what you're proposing for free, and come up with another bonus instead of the 1/2 off chariots. Something like being able to pick red/blue or attacking/defense on maps would work.

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    if they get 1k chariots for free already I don't see why they would be in a rush to get more more, even if it's cheaper. Mind you, we'd be playing attack versus defense and there's no guarantee all equal maps will be super flat.

    I'd rather we give what you're proposing for free, and come up with another bonus instead of the 1/2 off chariots. Something like being able to pick red/blue or attacking/defense on maps would work.
    True that isn't interesting how about:

    1) Wei Technology:
    1k wei chariots
    2 siege towers
    100 ballistas

    2) Stern Soldiers:
    Wei soldiers are virtually immune to morale dropping (except against very heinous acts and hopeless situations).
    They are able to bring out their full strength in almost every scenario.

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