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  1. #1

    Duke Hyou vs Keisha Rematch

    Location : Kokuyou
    75.000 vs 75.000
    No other notable officers for both sides, both sides have their own elites

    Objective is still taking central Hill, but taking the other general's head is of course another win condition

    With Duke experience on getting lead by Keisha in KP, would he do better in Kokuyou (and this time he's not outnumbered)?

    Scenario II
    Give Keisha all his line up in Kokuyou arc and give Duke HSU, Gaku ka, and Gyoku Hou Unit
    Last edited by gn_x00; 02-27-2017 at 12:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Duke destroys
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  3. #3
    Duke mid diff give keisha a lot more help.

    Give keisha kisui and co and his two subs and this is more fair

  4. #4
    Is it really that bad?

    Keisha completely control the battle with Duke in KP. The terrain here should be advantageous to Keisha, his overall style also advantageous to Duke while Duke Hyou without his own helper will need to throw away soldiers like in Dakan Plains?

    Wouldn't Keisha stomp Duke if we give him Kisui and all of their subordinates?
    Last edited by gn_x00; 02-27-2017 at 01:48 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Is it really that bad?

    Keisha completely control the battle with Duke in KP. The terrain here should be advantageous to Keisha, his overall style also advantageous to Duke while Duke Hyou without his own helper will need to throw away soldiers like in Dakan Plains?

    Wouldn't Keisha stomp Duke if we give him Kisui and all of their subordinates?
    Keisha controlled the battlefield when it was 120k vs 40k. He came in with three times his numbers and three generals serving beneath him while Duke only had the HSU.

    In this scenario you have them at equal numbers with no officers for either side, the battleground may be a bit better for Keisha here, but the conditions are far more favorable to the Duke this time around.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Is it really that bad?

    Keisha completely control the battle with Duke in KP. The terrain here should be advantageous to Keisha, his overall style also advantageous to Duke while Duke Hyou without his own helper will need to throw away soldiers like in Dakan Plains?

    Wouldn't Keisha stomp Duke if we give him Kisui and all of their subordinates?
    Keisha couldn't even stomp Duke with a 3:1 numbers advantage. I am not even sure if Kisui and those subs are enough but its certainly a start.

  7. #7
    on his defence it's not completely 3:1 since Riboku is sending all of his troops little by little, but eh, true enough

    i really wonder how Riboku lost to a scrub in their simulation game



    but if we add all of Kokuyou lineup it's still not enough to stop Duke?

  8. #8
    Taking the central hill huh? I think Duke Hyou will know that Keisha would rather have his forces flank Duke Hyou as he's climbing the hill to take it but I dunno how he would respond. I'll give Keisha the benefit of the doubt here.

    Duke Hyou takes scenario two though.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    on his defence it's not completely 3:1 since Riboku is sending all of his troops little by little, but eh, true enough

    i really wonder how Riboku lost to a scrub in their simulation game



    but if we add all of Kokuyou lineup it's still not enough to stop Duke?
    Its just a simulation game thats why. Far from the real thing. I could definitely see Keisha beating pretty much anyone in the series every once in a while in a simulation. It doesn't factor in a lot of things like leadership/martial and is just a board game.

  10. #10
    Rank 97 Spirit Master Chen Xin's Avatar
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    If you'd even entertain the idea of giving Keisha the benefit of the doubt over Duke Hyou, you need to check in at the nearest mental hospital.

    Even if this terrain is somehow advantageous to Keisha, do you really believe this pathetic bastard could defeat a full fledge Six Great General level Great General?

    Do you remember when Keisha came out to get a sniff at Kanki? He would lose his life pulling a stunt like that against Duke Hyou, who with his instincts, will predict his stuff. Remember guys, the placement of enemy soldiers is usually enough for Duke Hyou to get a read on what the commander is doing.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    Its just a simulation game thats why. Far from the real thing. I could definitely see Keisha beating pretty much anyone in the series every once in a while in a simulation. It doesn't factor in a lot of things like leadership/martial and is just a board game.
    well.. this is Riboku who is said to have 100 knowledge.

    on the strength counterpart, it's like comparing Houken to Shoumou lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    Do you remember when Keisha came out to get a sniff at Kanki? He would lose his life pulling a stunt like that against Duke Hyou, who with his instincts, will predict his stuff. Remember guys, the placement of enemy soldiers is usually enough for Duke Hyou to get a read on what the commander is doing.
    Keisha is only going down because he fell into Kanki's trap.

    in this case Keisha doesn't need to go down because Duke Hyou will, without a doubt, come to meet him.
    IMO, Keisha can actually destroy Duke's army, but there's not much he can do to put down the Duke himself
    Last edited by gn_x00; 02-27-2017 at 03:48 AM.

  12. #12
    Rank 97 Spirit Master Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Riboku takes the L all the time, its not surprising he took some in stimulation battles.

    His knowledge is more suited to a long thoughtout strategy.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    well.. this is Riboku who is said to have 100 knowledge.

    on the strength counterpart, it's like comparing Houken to Shoumou lol
    Its possible only because Riboku can't read him and probably gets surprised sometimes. Pure strategist types can't read instinct types at all.

    In a board game martial ability, leadership, troops are not factors and these are Duke's main advantages over Keisha.

  14. #14
    Rank 97 Spirit Master Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    well.. this is Riboku who is said to have 100 knowledge.

    on the strength counterpart, it's like comparing Houken to Shoumou lol



    Keisha is only going down because he fell into Kanki's trap.

    in this case Keisha doesn't need to go down because Duke Hyou will, without a doubt, come to meet him.
    IMO, Keisha can actually destroy Duke's army, but there's not much he can do to put down the Duke himself
    I'm saying an example, Keisha will have to sit in one location in a fight against Duke Hyou lest he loses his life again.

    Duke Hyou would conquer the hills one by one and there isn't anyone capable of even hindering him for a bit. Keisha destroying Duke Hyou's army is about as likely as Rihaku destroying Moubu.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Duke Hyou actually defeated Riboku's greatest shown tactic and would of won the battle if Riboku didn't have his Houken with him all the time.

  15. #15
    Nightfall checking in the thread in full force it seems

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    I'm saying an example, Keisha will have to sit in one location in a fight against Duke Hyou lest he loses his life again.

    Duke Hyou would conquer the hills one by one and there isn't anyone capable of even hindering him for a bit. Keisha destroying Duke Hyou's army is about as likely as Rihaku destroying Moubu.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Duke Hyou actually defeated Riboku's greatest shown tactic and would of won the battle if Riboku didn't have his Houken with him all the time.
    while i agree most of it, the bolded part is a joke..

    as seen with Kokuyou arc, 70.000 army is actually large enough to encompass a lot of area inside Kokuyou. Duke Hyou is just a single man, and without other notable generals, Keisha can put a dent to places where Duke isn't there at all

  17. #17
    Rank 97 Spirit Master Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    while i agree most of it, the bolded part is a joke..

    as seen with Kokuyou arc, 70.000 army is actually large enough to encompass a lot of area inside Kokuyou. Duke Hyou is just a single man, and without other notable generals, Keisha can put a dent to places where Duke isn't there at all
    Duke Hyou's soldiers are known to be stronger than Ouki's soldiers, who are all at a cracked level soldier.

    Keisha with his 88 strength isn't going to do much. Do you remember Shin trying to get into the royal capital when Duke Juuteki was blocking him? It'd be way worse than that. Keisha can't do shit.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chen Xin View Post
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    Duke Hyou's soldiers are known to be stronger than Ouki's soldiers, who are all at a cracked level soldier.

    Keisha with his 88 strength isn't going to do much. Do you remember Shin trying to get into the royal capital when Duke Juuteki was blocking him? It'd be way worse than that. Keisha can't do shit.
    uh.. you're assuming Duke Hyou got 75.000 elites?

    even the one that charges with him in Dakan Plains (Wei border, place where he's the most active, so his elites should all be there) is only 5.000 iirc

  19. #19
    Rank 97 Spirit Master Chen Xin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    uh.. you're assuming Duke Hyou got 75.000 elites?

    even the one that charges with him in Dakan Plains (Wei border, place where he's the most active, so his elites should all be there) is only 5.000 iirc
    I'm assuming he has more than Keisha's elite troops. A lot more in fact.

  20. #20
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    Duke destroys Keisha.
    This is one sided beatdown the way I see it.
    Keisha needed overwhelming advantage at KP to just stalemate Duke .
    That is how badly Duke outclasses him.
    With mere 5000 soldiers Duke destroyed Riboku's famed technique where he had 30000 soldiers.
    Duke will slice through Keisha's formation like hot knife through butter. Considering Keisha can't fight to save his life he is screwed here.
    Lower end of Mid diff is I guess will be the difficulty.

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