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Thread: Gokei vs Keisha

  1. #1

    Gokei vs Keisha

    80k vs 80k. Chouyou.

    Keisha has Gakuei and Kinmou.
    Gokei has Hakukisai, Kyuugen and the 10 bows dude. He also has 10 war chariots.

    Scenario 1: Gokei is attacking Keisha
    Scenario 2: Keisha is attacking Gokei

    Who wins?

  2. #2
    Gokei wins all scenarios mid-high. He simply outclasses keisha

  3. #3
    Nightfall's Avatar
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    Make no mistake, Gokei is a man respected by both Duke Hyou and Ouki.

    Keisha isn't winning this.




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  4. #4
    Ye ... ah Void's Avatar
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    Make no mistake, Gokei is a man respected by both Crispy and people that aren't Wei sympathists.


    Keisha isn't winning this.

  5. #5
    Yeah everyone is praising Gokei but dude lost aginst 5000 army when he had 45000 lol.

  6. #6
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesKurde View Post
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    Yeah everyone is praising Gokei but dude lost aginst 5000 army when he had 45000 lol.
    Lmao

    Yeah, and the enemy was the very same one that Keisha defeated in the kankoku pass plain, with worse odds.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Lmao
    Yeah, and the enemy was the very same one that Keisha defeated in the kankoku pass plain, with worse odds.
    You talking about Duke Hyou's nameless subordinate at the back of his charge? Because I don't think that guy was the one who beat Gokei. It was mainly Duke Hyou.
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  8. #8
    Gokei's biggest weakness is that he doesn't want to retreat against invader. so far that's the only reason Duke Hyou even managed to reach him in Dakan Plains.

    and sadly Keisha will probably die if he's trying to exploit that "weakness" of Gokei.

    and the fact that Gokei stat is pretty much superior to Keisha other than instinct, which Keisha doesn't have that much showing imo

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    You talking about Duke Hyou's nameless subordinate at the back of his charge? Because I don't think that guy was the one who beat Gokei. It was mainly Duke Hyou.
    I mean Duke Hyou, of course. I think it's safe to say that Duke Hyou was de facto defeated by Keisha on the first day, with most of his finest men dying and barely escaping death himself.

    This because Keisha, as an instinctual general who also makes use of tactics and strategy, had a better grasp of the situation than Gokei's ever had in the whole war.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On a serious note, I think Gokei is the better general but I see him greatly disadvantaged against Keisha.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The matchups between the vassals could be interesting though

  10. #10
    Scenario 1- I'd go with Keisha here. Chouyou is a naturally fortified land that's hard to crack from any angle, if Keisha turns this into a web then it's going to be difficult for Gokei to even step into it at all. I'm sure Gokei has a lot of offensive maneuvers at his disposal and the Wei chariots will be a great asset, but even with the Wei chariots I don't think he has the offensive needed to risk stepping into Keisha's web in such a location. Gokei is a pretty direct fighter so I certainly don't see him pulling any Kanki maneuvers to make Keisha leave his favorable position.

    Scenario 2- Keisha gets wrecked here, his entire style of warfare is to set up a web and have his opponent walk into it, he really has no business trying to tackle a natural stronghold held by one of the greatest defensive tacticians in all of China.

  11. #11
    btw where was Chouyou again?

    i was thinking the Tou vs GHM place, but the spelling is apparently different

  12. #12
    It should be the Tou vs GHM place.

  13. #13
    It's been retranslated to Chiyoyo or something iirc.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    Scenario 1- I'd go with Keisha here. Chouyou is a naturally fortified land that's hard to crack from any angle, if Keisha turns this into a web then it's going to be difficult for Gokei to even step into it at all. I'm sure Gokei has a lot of offensive maneuvers at his disposal and the Wei chariots will be a great asset, but even with the Wei chariots I don't think he has the offensive needed to risk stepping into Keisha's web in such a location. Gokei is a pretty direct fighter so I certainly don't see him pulling any Kanki maneuvers to make Keisha leave his favorable position.

    Scenario 2- Keisha gets wrecked here, his entire style of warfare is to set up a web and have his opponent walk into it, he really has no business trying to tackle a natural stronghold held by one of the greatest defensive tacticians in all of China.


    I think you are wrong about Keisha's web ability. The man predicts his opponent;s future moves and uses them to entrap the armies. its not about using fortifications or whatever. Gokei would see an opening and want to exploit and Keisha would use it to entrap him,using his stench instinct ability. In short just read the beginning of the kokuyou arc again. No offence.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Caesar View Post
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    I think you are wrong about Keisha's web ability. The man predicts his opponent;s future moves and uses them to entrap the armies. its not about using fortifications or whatever. Gokei would see an opening and want to exploit and Keisha would use it to entrap him,using his stench instinct ability. In short just read the beginning of the kokuyou arc again. No offence.
    Nah, it's strategic generals who predict their opponent's future moves, instinctual generals are reactionary and adapt on the fly.

    When I said it's going to be difficult for Wei to step into the web, I wasn't talking about fortifications, I saw talking about him and his men stepping into the traps. It's going to be difficult for them to push very far in when Keisha's made the playing field into one of his webs, the natural fortifications of the land are just going to make his webs even more effective.

  16. #16
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    Nah, it's strategic generals who predict their opponent's future moves, instinctual generals are reactionary and adapt on the fly.
    The entire Duke Hyou vs Keisha battle is about Keisha predicting Duke Hyou's actions and using this knowledge to prepare a death trap.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    The entire Duke Hyou vs Keisha battle is about Keisha predicting Duke Hyou's actions and using this knowledge to prepare a death trap.
    It doesn't exactly take a Riboku to predict that the berserker charging towards your army is probably planning to tear into your army. He can make plans but as a general he reads the very pulse of the battlefield and acts accordingly, that's what instinctual generals do, it's why his traps are so effective.

  18. #18
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    It doesn't exactly take a Riboku to predict that the berserker charging towards your army is probably planning to tear into your army. He can make plans but as a general he reads the very pulse of the battlefield and acts accordingly, that's what instinctual generals do, it's why his traps are so effective.
    Ok, go reread that chapter as well

    jokes aside, no. Telling rihaku to not adopt an iron defense stance is prep, moving Kousonryuu to bait Duke Hyou there is a pure prediction based on instinct, sending Mangoku to reap the elites in the rear is another prediction, more strategical if you want. On that battle, Keisha shows everything you need to know about him.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    Nah, it's strategic generals who predict their opponent's future moves, instinctual generals are reactionary and adapt on the fly.

    When I said it's going to be difficult for Wei to step into the web, I wasn't talking about fortifications, I saw talking about him and his men stepping into the traps. It's going to be difficult for them to push very far in when Keisha's made the playing field into one of his webs, the natural fortifications of the land are just going to make his webs even more effective.
    I am afraid crispi already summarized the main points I have against your arguments above. I rather think keisha underestimated a lot on these forums. he was not considered the closest to the third great heaven candidate for nothing. The fact that Gokei is pure strategic and his methods are relatively well known would make it easier more him to win. He can and would outpredict and outplay Gokei. the only way someone can outdo him is by being and fighting like an absolute outlier like Kanki.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Ok, go reread that chapter as well

    jokes aside, no. Telling rihaku to not adopt an iron defense stance is prep, moving Kousonryuu to bait Duke Hyou there is a pure prediction based on instinct, sending Mangoku to reap the elites in the rear is another prediction, more strategical if you want. On that battle, Keisha shows everything you need to know about him.
    I never said Keisha was incapable of prep, just that instinctual types are best at reacting and adapting on the fly be reading the pulse of the battle, he knew that Duke was a fellow instinct type so he knew how to properly respond to his movements. Kousonryuu and Mangoku's movements were predictions of Keisha? What does that even mean? He was the one that ordered those movements.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Caesar View Post
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    I am afraid crispi already summarized the main points I have against your arguments above. I rather think keisha underestimated a lot on these forums. he was not considered the closest to the third great heaven candidate for nothing. The fact that Gokei is pure strategic and his methods are relatively well known would make it easier more him to win. He can and would outpredict and outplay Gokei. the only way someone can outdo him is by being and fighting like an absolute outlier like Kanki.
    I'm one of the few people who said Keisha wins the first round, not sure why you're targeting my post for underestimating him.

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