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  1. #1

    How many men for Keisha to beat Moubu?

    Same scenario as Duke vs Keisha. Moubu has 40k but doesn't have the HSU. Keisha has Mangoku, Kousonryuu and Rihaku. Start with 120k vs 40k - who wins? And if it's Moubu, what number would Keisha need to stop him smashing through the 'web'?


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  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Keisha can beat Moubu with those numbers but he can't do it with the same setup he used against Duke Hyou.

  4. #4
    He could bring all of China and it wouldn't make a difference.

  5. #5
    He could bring all of Asia and it wouldn't make a difference.

  6. #6
    Its possible for keisha to win with that huge of an advantage but moubu could still take his head possibly

  7. #7
    Keisha can only stop and "trap" Duke because Duke's offensive isn't as strong as Moubu. Moubu will clear path and do a direct line to Keisha, so it doesn't matter how many troops that Keisha has in plains battle like in that kankoku pass area IMO

    or he can do what he did to Rihaku and slowly eat the whole army every day

  8. #8
    Dont know why people are looking down on Keisha, Ten even said Kanki wouldnt be able to beat him if he was able to return to the top of the hill

    What would a brute like Moubu do? He'd get eaten alive by him

  9. #9
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    He could bring all of Eurasia and it wouldn't mean shit.

    "In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."

  10. #10
    ^
    ^

    at that point Keisha can be alive and do whatever shit he will do and Kanki will still take the hill at the same time. There will only be a difference of casualties (both sides have more casualites)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Keisha can only stop and "trap" Duke because Duke's offensive isn't as strong as Moubu. Moubu will clear path and do a direct line to Keisha, so it doesn't matter how many troops that Keisha has in plains battle like in that kankoku pass area IMO

    or he can do what he did to Rihaku and slowly eat the whole army every day
    it was because he knew Duke Hyou needed to see the intentions of the enemy to use his instinct. Moubu doesn't need that so he can charge right in but if we are to believe Moubu matured, he shouldn't do something so reckless against those numbers unless the path is Keisha is clear as it was with Kanmei. Also, their offenses are rather comparable imo, what makes Moubu strong is that he leads from the front and creates a path for his soldiers, whereas Duke Hyou has as his backup the best soldiers in Qin.

    Moubu and attrition warfare while it's 120k versus 40k? Surely you jest.

  12. #12
    it's not attrition warfare since Moubu will just crush Keisha head within a day of battle

  13. #13
    or he can do what he did to Rihaku and slowly eat the whole army every day
    Ah-ah!

    If that's not attrition warfare then I don't know what is.

  14. #14
    there was an "or" there. aren't you talking about the first one?

    for the 2nd one though. if army of peasant can be used by Moubu to decimate Zhao's normal forces when he is "trapped" in Rihaku's formation. then I'm not sure how it's impossible for Moubu to do the same thing with Keisha.
    it's in plains and formation doesn't matter much for Moubu if the enemy general isn't outstanding enough.

    change the location to kokuyou and Keisha has a chance
    Last edited by gn_x00; 01-10-2017 at 04:39 AM.

  15. #15
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    Keisha can beat Moubu with those numbers but he can't do it with the same setup he used against Duke Hyou.
    this

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Dont know why people are looking down on Keisha, Ten even said Kanki wouldnt be able to beat him if he was able to return to the top of the hill

    What would a brute like Moubu do? He'd get eaten alive by him
    and this

  16. #16
    Keisha wins. An army of 120,000 is too big to get through with a single charge, and on top of that Keisha can always move his HQ if it's really necessary. Remember that Moubu needed SHK's strategy to make it through an army half that size to reach a general who actually wanted to fight him.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  17. #17
    Yeah gotta admit my initial reaction was Moubu but now I think Keisha wins. If the odds were 20k vs 70k, then I'd fancy Moubu to win. But the odds are just too great and the larger Moubu's army is, the less effective per person the charge is.

    Tou's the only GG of Qin capable of achieving what Duke did.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Keisha wins. An army of 120,000 is too big to get through with a single charge, and on top of that Keisha can always move his HQ if it's really necessary. Remember that Moubu needed SHK's strategy to make it through an army half that size to reach a general who actually wanted to fight him.
    The strategy wasn't just about getting Moubu through the enemy lines, it was about getting him through while still preserving enough strength to win a duel against a man famed as the strongest in China. Moubu won't need to worry about preserving strength against Keisha since he can just swat him like a bug if they cross paths.

    Kanmei's army is also much more powerful than Keisha's army. He's basically the Chu version of Moubu, used to blowing through and crushing any resistance that stood against them, they chose the straight line formation because they were so prideful of their strength. His defense is going to be far more ferocious and tough to break through than someone like Kousonryuu, who Moubu can decimate in his sleep.

    Rihaku and Kousonryuu will probably get PTSD remembering how hard Moubu wrecked them and will flee from the battlefield with their tails between their legs.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    ^
    ^

    at that point Keisha can be alive and do whatever shit he will do and Kanki will still take the hill at the same time. There will only be a difference of casualties (both sides have more casualites)
    If Kanki didnt pull one of his upsets he would have lost to Keisha in a conventional battle, its as simple as that. There is a reason why the Duke struggled so much against him

    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    it's not attrition warfare since Moubu will just crush Keisha head within a day of battle
    And how do you think would go exactly? There is an 80,000 man margin of difference between the two, I dont care how tough Moubos troops are Keisha wont be no slouches either and they would become physically exhausted long before they reached their HQ if Moubo tried to defeat an army of 120,000 in a single day of battle. Keisha would easily see what Moubo was trying to do as well, and could lay traps to ensnare him just like he ensnared Duke. Moubo isnt invincible, I know a lot of people like to think he is but he isnt.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    If Kanki didnt pull one of his upsets he would have lost to Keisha in a conventional battle, its as simple as that.
    Kanki doesn't fight conventional battles, his entire style is based around being as unconventional and unorthodox as possible.

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