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  1. #21
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    wasn't it Kanmei and Chu's court?
    Nah, trouble in Yan court as well:

    also it was Ordo who talked the Yan king into it.



    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    wasn't he guess it by the fact that only spies in that place got killed/caught/lost contact? it was quite reasonable judgement IMO
    I was exaggerating. And I have forgotten about Ryuuka, ch. 500, so why not.
    Though I don't quite get how taking this info into account doesn't cost Zhao anything, as Shunsuiju states. If this is the case, why the whole operation in the first place.


  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    I feel a bit like gn_x00. I'm a bit disappointed with Riboku. Granted, clearly he was blowing smoke when he challenged Qin to "send everyone", since he knew Qin could never afford to do that. But now they send three GG (prompting him to call nearly everybody) and with Yan moving *the horror!* he seems to be caught offguard. Pray Karin never gets too bored.


    Luckily, Riboku got Shunsuiju from out-of-nowhere who can (nearly) deduce a plan encompassing hundreds of thousands of soldiers by watching some Qin soldier passing gas irregularly. You're really growing on me, duncy Though it screws Ousen.
    I don't see why Riboku wouldn't be surprised at Yan attacking. Zhao don't have the embarrassment of riches that Qin have who can attack with 3 Great Generals and send another two to simply guard. Not only that but the timing of this Yan invasion is unique. Zhao are still working on a plan to handle the Qin invasion. It'd be a little bit different if the Qin/Zhao war was in full stride and all the pieces were clear. Now a total rethink is in order. I wouldn't expect (and it'd be underwhelming) if Riboku's reaction was simply "eh it was obvious it would happen" also. Riboku isn't in total panic mode, he's surprised. As I'd expect. Now he'll calmly react to it.

    Plus...this is Kingdom. Everyone reacts to everything


    Btw. has Ordo already been GG of Yan by CW?
    Yep. I can't remember if he was called a GG by title in the CW, but he's called a Great General in the databook (so is Seikai btw). Leading 120k soldiers + being close enough to the king to change his opinion on revenge over Gekishin + to join the coalition would imply he's a Great General also.

  3. #23
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I don't see why Riboku wouldn't be surprised at Yan attacking. Zhao don't have the embarrassment of riches that Qin have who can attack with 3 Great Generals and send another two to simply guard. Not only that but the timing of this Yan invasion is unique. Zhao are still working on a plan to handle the Qin invasion. It'd be a little bit different if the Qin/Zhao war was in full stride and all the pieces were clear. Now a total rethink is in order. I wouldn't expect (and it'd be underwhelming) if Riboku's reaction was simply "eh it was obvious it would happen" also. Riboku isn't in total panic mode, he's surprised. As I'd expect. Now he'll calmly react to it.
    There is a Yan-Qin alliance I can hardly believe Zhao is unaware of (ch. 494). Ordo called Riboku the greatest enemy of Yan (ch. 269) and since then, we have no intel on Kouen/Qi/random tribes attacking Yan, changing anything about that. It also doesn't help for Yan's attitude that Riboku and Qi king traveled around. Although Riboku should be wary about Qi now, not counting on them to keep Yan away, as Riboku did not witness Qi king/Sei interaction. Or did they stage something I have forgotten.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Plus...this is Kingdom. Everyone reacts to everything
    Hurray for reaction shots.


  4. #24
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    Sooo how did Ousen predict rain when nobody else could?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    There is a Yan-Qin alliance I can hardly believe Zhao is unaware of (ch. 494). Ordo called Riboku the greatest enemy of Yan (ch. 269) and since then, we have no intel on Kouen/Qi/random tribes attacking Yan, changing anything about that. It also doesn't help for Yan's attitude that Riboku and Qi king traveled around. Although Riboku should be wary about Qi now, not counting on them to keep Yan away, as Riboku did not witness Qi king/Sei interaction. Or did they stage something I have forgotten.
    I just-read the chapter. Riboku doesn't really react. The main (over)reactions are from Futei and Kaine:http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kingdom/C...1?id=342592#14
    Kinmou also soils himself a little whilst Batei/Kisui are a bit stunned. Look at Riboku's expression and context though: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kingdom/C...1?id=342592#15

    He isn't saying "How can this be possible?", he's saying "Shit this is bad". Because now he has 4 Great Generals on his doorstep from two directions worth hundreds of thousands. That is the exact type of reaction you'd expect from anybody.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Sooo how did Ousen predict rain when nobody else could?
    I get the feeling more than Ousen probably knew about the rain, but only Ousen was worrying about the effect it would have on the troops. Not everybody, mind you, but I'm sure more than Ousen knew since a lot of these people used to be farmers or mountain people.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Sooo how did Ousen predict rain when nobody else could?
    Ousen has little birds everywhere

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    I get the feeling more than Ousen probably knew about the rain, but only Ousen was worrying about the effect it would have on the troops. Not everybody, mind you, but I'm sure more than Ousen knew since a lot of these people used to be farmers or mountain people.
    Seems like even Mouten didn't know it was gonna rain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Ousen has little birds everywhere
    Even in the sky?!?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I just-read the chapter. Riboku doesn't really react. The main (over)reactions are from Futei and Kaine:http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kingdom/C...1?id=342592#14
    Kinmou also soils himself a little whilst Batei/Kisui are a bit stunned. Look at Riboku's expression and context though: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Kingdom/C...1?id=342592#15
    And now look at Bananji who looks completely unfazed, making Riboku in team with the shocked guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    He isn't saying "How can this be possible?", he's saying "Shit this is bad". Because now he has 4 Great Generals on his doorstep from two directions worth hundreds of thousands. That is the exact type of reaction you'd expect from anybody.
    "of all possible days, he chose now. *squeeze* for that man in the east to make a move now"

    Granted, if you read it favorably, it says that Riboku was well expecting Yan to move, but hoping they would take their sweet time until Qin/Zhao are kneedeep entangled in the west, while Riboku hides a spare one in the east/finishes west first... maybe I would accept it easier if Riboku had gotten Duncy's message first, opening a new possibility Riboku had to take into account AND then getting the new message of Ordo attacking, complicating things even more.

    I guess for now we have to wait for the next chapter to see how well Riboku prepared for Yan or if they really got with his pants down.


  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    anyway, now Ousen is confirmed to be zhuge liang of kingdom since apparently he managed to read weather too



    that meet up is really sad with Kinmou and Batei lol
    Zhao really dont have many noteworthy generals. Without Riboku they would be a han level state

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    Zhao really dont have many noteworthy generals. Without Riboku they would be a han level state
    Although they keep getting new guys on every turn. Kinmou and pal, Kisui, Ryu, Batei... then Banaji, Duncy and Kochou... and Seikaun.
    Last edited by say-and-sing; 01-08-2017 at 06:25 PM.


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    Although they keep getting new guys on every turn. Kinmou and pal, Kisui, Ryu, Batei... then Banaji, Duncy and Koshou... and there's still the bow left, iirc.
    None of those guys are even keisha level not really noteworthy. Only kisui has some worth but he isnt that great either

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixng2015 View Post
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    None of those guys are even keisha level not really noteworthy. Only kisui has some worth but he isnt that great either
    So little hope? Even for Kochou and Riboku's new pals?


  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    So little hope? Even for Kochou and Riboku's new pals?
    4 HK level tops and thats being generous. At best yan lvl without riboku i guess which is weak.

  15. #35


    Just noticed that Kyoukai could also read the weather.

  16. #36
    Good chapter, Riboku is fucked no matter how you slice it. If Ordo's smart, he'd take his cities and not risk decisive pitched battles with anyone Zhao sends.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    anyway, now Ousen is confirmed to be zhuge liang of kingdom since apparently he managed to read weather too
    legend is, Kong Ming prayed for the wind himself

    But Ousen has yet to reach his level because he can't read (not confirmed yet) the stars to predict freak events like the southeastern winds of Red Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Sooo how did Ousen predict rain when nobody else could?
    A great strategist accounts for everything, even weather. Seeing as he's the only pure one here and by far the best one, it's reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Seems like even Mouten didn't know it was gonna rain.


    Even in the sky?!?
    Mouten was raised by the book in a academy, he's still wet behind the ears if you know what I mean.

    That's where birds fly you dingus

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    And now look at Bananji who looks completely unfazed, making Riboku in team with the shocked guys.
    Why does this reflect badly on Riboku? Riboku isn't in total shock - he's worried.


    "of all possible days, he chose now. *squeeze* for that man in the east to make a move now"

    Granted, if you read it favorably, it says that Riboku was well expecting Yan to move, but hoping they would take their sweet time until Qin/Zhao are kneedeep entangled in the west, while Riboku hides a spare one in the east/finishes west first... maybe I would accept it easier if Riboku had gotten Duncy's message first, opening a new possibility Riboku had to take into account AND then getting the new message of Ordo attacking, complicating things even more.
    He doesn't expect a move - nobody expects a move. But he isn't surprised by the move (at least beyond the initial split second interruption by the messenger) - he is greatly concerned by it though. There's a huge difference. Riboku evidently knew there was a possibility of a Yan invasion at some point but the timing is a huge issue. Remember Riboku's words before the Coalition War when he said something to the effect of multiple state attacks on the same day are even more dangerous because they paralyse the opponents with shock? Same effect here. The timing of Ordo's attack is a nightmare.



    I guess for now we have to wait for the next chapter to see how well Riboku prepared for Yan or if they really got with his pants down.
    Depends how strong Zhao actually are. We can't compare them to Qin who have 5 top tiers (and elites beneath) ready to intercept a state. You could argue "Zhao should have left Kisui at Yan just in case" but that just means they'd be left bare and you'd be knocking Riboku for underestimating the greatest threat; Kanki/Ousen/Yotanwa + 200k Qin soldiers.

    Time will tell as you said though. I wonder if Ordo is intending to defeat Zhao or whether he's only there to be a distraction

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    Mouten was raised by the book in a academy, he's still wet behind the ears if you know what I mean.

    That's where birds fly you dingus
    Thanks to Ousen, no he's not.

    Little birds can mean spies, I was taking it literally as a joke!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Thanks to Ousen, no he's not.

    Little birds can mean spies, I was taking it literally as a joke!
    now he knows

    spies aren't all human

  20. #40
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Why does this reflect badly on Riboku? Riboku isn't in total shock - he's worried.
    Because it splits the group into at least one part that is unfazed. If it was Batei one could argue he just arrived and is not able to grasp the situation so fast, but Bananji is (should be) competent enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    He doesn't expect a move - nobody expects a move. But he isn't surprised by the move (at least beyond the initial split second interruption by the messenger) - he is greatly concerned by it though. There's a huge difference. Riboku evidently knew there was a possibility of a Yan invasion at some point but the timing is a huge issue. Remember Riboku's words before the Coalition War when he said something to the effect of multiple state attacks on the same day are even more dangerous because they paralyse the opponents with shock? Same effect here. The timing of Ordo's attack is a nightmare.
    It is because of Riboku knowing & even explaining how important such a rate of successive attacks is that makes me wonder why he is so surprised, or, concerned. He screwed Yan/Qin by killing their heroes, went into Qin court, challenged everyone and their gradmother, spent a year fortifying the western front and now gets cold feet with Ordo stepping by from the east? For the smartest person and god of prep this seems rather odd. Even while sharing a border with everyone and having poor personal.

    To make a long story short: Yan seeking revenge should have been taken well into account. If it was Karin at the doorstep, suddenly deciding rather to snack Zhao than keep Qin in check, I would cut Riboku some slack.
    Last edited by say-and-sing; 01-08-2017 at 07:08 PM.


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