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  1. #41
    Knight of Elegance Aliasniamor's Avatar
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    Riboku will eat them alive, finally showing why he's the greatest strategist. But he'll lose becaue of the far greater arsenal Qin has at its disposal. Rip Kanki incoming though

  2. #42
    I hope we see this war from multiple different angles. It's a war afterall, not just a battle. concentrating too much on a single battle wouldn't be good IMO.

  3. #43
    This war will show the gap between Riboku and SHK. I admit I thought they were close before. Now not so much.

  4. #44
    Nothing had changed. It's simply harder to attack a state that is delicating to their defenses while trying to stall for time.




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  5. #45
    dunno... but if it's like this, isn't it better to attack Wei or Han instead?

    as in... trying to bait Zhou's force to invade Qin and crush them in Qin border instead (thus an easier time to go conquering a gimped Zhou).

    although it does indeed open a hostile relationship with some state, but might be better than a suicide attack imo

  6. #46
    Why are Qin taking out Zhao first? It was specifically said (by Riboku no less) that Qin needed to cripple Zhao + Wei first and then take out Han completely. Wei have already been crippled (Sanyou + Chouyou), Zhao have been damaged (Kokuyou) and the alliance with Yan can surely keep Zhao from interfering?

    I guess Zhao could go first though which makes this arc so hyped for me. Hara has basically told us a million times that Riboku is the star of the era and the number 1 General right now (backed up by Ouki, Renpa and Ouken) but I do agree with those who say he's not exactly shown it yet (tho some exaggerate it IMO). Can't wait to see Riboku going all out showing everyone what he can do

  7. #47
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    I've got a strong feeling that this will not go according to Shouheikun's plan. Qin will probably take out some Zhao generals worth of note, but in the end they'll lose. At least that's how I see it.

  8. #48
    No Shave November Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Why are Qin taking out Zhao first? It was specifically said (by Riboku no less) that Qin needed to cripple Zhao + Wei first and then take out Han completely. Wei have already been crippled (Sanyou + Chouyou), Zhao have been damaged (Kokuyou) and the alliance with Yan can surely keep Zhao from interfering?
    Exactly, it's retarded. Riboku is banking on Qin heavily investing in attacking Zhao while the other states attack Qin if there's an opening. If they wanted to attack Zhao before the fortifications were done I would understand but why would you do this now? Hara



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  9. #49
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    Yeah it is strange. They need at least two high-caliber generals to pull this off or else the feint or the inland attack would not work. Yet they still need to scare off Wei and Chu (and Han). So pretty much they have to ask Yotanwa? But why should she agree (even for the feint). Unless SHK deploys himself to one of the smaller states, but this seems out of the question.

    Also I am amazed how many people Zhao has left even after Hakuki. They can build defenses in the west to keep Qin busy for ten years while protecting their capital with elite units AND keep out Yan/Qi? Or has Riboku pulled some strings with other states?
    Gotta wonder how many soldiers Chu has... or Hara goes with the "well, they were not so powerful for their size".


  10. #50
    I think Qin will win in a very close way, however they will lose a lot of soldiers and generals, probably even more than zhao, but I'm sure in the end they will reach and control gyou, and with this, riboku will have to make some cautious and conservative moves even taking into account that zhao will have superior numbers. In other words, to me even although this is a war in long term the time and timing will be one of the keys.

    PS: yes, attack on wei makes much more sense in different ways.
    1. strategy, wei isn't in the same league as qin, chu and zhao. they are lacking in GGs and generals.
    2. position and defenses, the state seems rather easier to conquer.

    3. series, zhao is much more interesting as state and army, and have much better characters.
    Last edited by Ares; 11-01-2016 at 06:44 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    Yeah it is strange. They need at least two high-caliber generals to pull this off or else the feint or the inland attack would not work. Yet they still need to scare off Wei and Chu (and Han). So pretty much they have to ask Yotanwa? But why should she agree (even for the feint). Unless SHK deploys himself to one of the smaller states, but this seems out of the question.

    Also I am amazed how many people Zhao has left even after Hakuki. They can build defenses in the west to keep Qin busy for ten years while protecting their capital with elite units AND keep out Yan/Qi? Or has Riboku pulled some strings with other states?
    Gotta wonder how many soldiers Chu has... or Hara goes with the "well, they were not so powerful for their size".
    The lack of troops is why riboku can only play defensive here tbh. He should be able to hold off even with a big numbers disadvantage

  12. #52
    No Shave November Void's Avatar
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    Numbers have always been a convenient thing for hara, he's free to hand wave and make them up as he goes.

    And Riboku's defense does look like a more complex version of ghm's Choyou system, but the weakness is that it doesn't have GGs to defend it



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  13. #53
    Rampaging Beast Thdyingbreed's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty hilarious that after all of Riboku's big talk of crushing Qin he instead opts for attrition warfare instead of taking the fight to Qin and is this going to be the longest war in the series I can't remember if any other war was over a year in length and hopefully this is the war where the trio or at least Shin/Ouhon become generals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Honestly, I thought this chapter was going to be talking about utilizing Yotanwa when the talk about mountains started.

    "Yotanwa conquers regional mountain tribes and invades city."
    That's what I was thinking I would figure they were going to have Yontanwa invade while Shin and co act as a distraction but Riboku would look like a fool if he didn't consider them coming especially after Yontanwa cost him the Coalition war.

  14. #54
    say-and-sing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    And Riboku's defense does look like a more complex version of ghm's Choyou system, but the weakness is that it doesn't have GGs to defend it
    With GGs, it would crumble like poor GHM's. He needs 5 Bateis and it will be impassable. Maybe Gakujo will return as well

    Aynway, anything they do will play into Aizen's Riboku's hand.


  15. #55
    No Shave November Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thdyingbreed View Post
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    I think it's pretty hilarious that after all of Riboku's big talk of crushing Qin he instead opts for attrition warfare instead of taking the fight to Qin and is this going to be the longest war in the series I can't remember if any other war was over a year in length and hopefully this is the war where the trio or at least Shin/Ouhon become generals.
    He did choose his words wisely, he said he could solo anybody Qin sends as long as he lures them deep into Zhao to crush them.

    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    With GGs, it would crumble like poor GHM's. He needs 5 Bateis and it will be impassable. Maybe Gakujo will return as well

    Aynway, anything they do will play into Aizen's Riboku's hand.
    GHM's biggest flaw was that he had three offensive GGs do whatever they pleased. Give Riboku 3-4 Mougous with micromanagement/prep and Zhao would be impenetrable.



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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    GHM's biggest flaw was that he had three offensive GGs do whatever they pleased. Give Riboku 3-4 Mougous with micromanagement/prep and Zhao would be impenetrable.
    I'd rather give him 3-4 Moutens so we have something to look at

    The question being whether Dunce&Bananji are waiting at the western front or at home. They give off an rather offensive vibe.


  17. #57
    Would Houken be at Gyou? Doesn't seem like the fortress defense type to me.

  18. #58
    No Shave November Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by say-and-sing View Post
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    I'd rather give him 3-4 Moutens so we have something to look at

    The question being whether Dunce&Bananji are waiting at the western front or at home. They give off an rather offensive vibe.
    No, Mouten is Qin!

    Egg face looks to be all rounder while Banana looks to be a hardcore defensive veteran or a grizzled offensive powerhouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold View Post
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    Would Houken be at Gyou? Doesn't seem like the fortress defense type to me.
    He'll obviously be right behind Riboku. And Riboku is always at the most convenient spot.



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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    No, Mouten is Qin!
    So we believed until the clones separated twins kicked in. Mouten(Qin) x Mouten(Zhao) - fantastic!

    Kousonryuu is already an allrounder. Banana can be a powerhouse beneath Gaimou, Shin's next step. Batei can scram.


  20. #60
    @Gold;

    I think houken will not be in zhao camping unless that riboku thinks the situation is really dangerous. This war against zhao is big but isn't a definitive war, probably qin and zhao will fight at least 2 wars more until zhao fails. Even if qin wins this war only means get some good position in zhao, like we saw with wei.

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