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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    noticed you took out the qin-wei allied war against chu in 235bc or maybe i just read about that somewhere else

    does that event not actually happen?
    Thanks for pointing that out! The war wasn't recorded in Annals of Qin Shi Huang but I double checked in Aristocratic Family of Chu and it was recorded there. Added that back in now.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by magaxking View Post
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    Thanks for pointing that out! The war wasn't recorded in Annals of Qin Shi Huang but I double checked in Aristocratic Family of Chu and it was recorded there. Added that back in now.
    I have a question about the Mountain people. Judging from their geographical location, I'd say historically the equivalent should be the Qiang people, at least that's how it was during the Three Kingdoms period. Is that correct, or where there different tribes living in that area during the Warring States?

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    I have a question about the Mountain people. Judging from their geographical location, I'd say historically the equivalent should be the Qiang people, at least that's how it was during the Three Kingdoms period. Is that correct, or where there different tribes living in that area during the Warring States?
    I would say the Qin people are more associated with the Western Rong people of its time, i.e. the Quanrong people that YTW is fighting in this arc.

    The beginning of Qin was tied to the Zhou king promising an unspecified area of land to the western region where the old Zhou capital was. The land was invaded by the Quanrong, bringing an end to the western Zhou dynasty. After moving eastwards and settling down in a new capital, the Zhou king promised the ruler of the Qin people that he can have as much land as he can recover from the Quanrong. This gave Qin the motivation to conquer as much land as possible to the west and built its state. You can read up a bit of it over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_(state)#Foundation

    Due to the state of Qin being located in the west where the Quanrong once was, many states in the central plains view the Qin people as people without proper manners and traditions. While true to a certain extent, this gave Qin the freedom to craft practical policies as they are not bound by traditions or rules of the people central plains.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by magaxking View Post
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    I would say the Qin people are more associated with the Western Rong people of its time, i.e. the Quanrong people that YTW is fighting in this arc.

    The beginning of Qin was tied to the Zhou king promising an unspecified area of land to the western region where the old Zhou capital was. The land was invaded by the Quanrong, bringing an end to the western Zhou dynasty. After moving eastwards and settling down in a new capital, the Zhou king promised the ruler of the Qin people that he can have as much land as he can recover from the Quanrong. This gave Qin the motivation to conquer as much land as possible to the west and built its state. You can read up a bit of it over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_(state)#Foundation

    Due to the state of Qin being located in the west where the Quanrong once was, many states in the central plains view the Qin people as people without proper manners and traditions. While true to a certain extent, this gave Qin the freedom to craft practical policies as they are not bound by traditions or rules of the people central plains.
    The Quanrong are classified as Qiang people's too, according to wikipedia, and the Qiang were part of the "barbarians" knows as the Xirong. If they are Qiang, the famous general Ma Chao is descended from them haha, that's some interesting trivia. I wonder if there's records of Qin using them as mercenaries/soldiers (like other dynasties like Cao Wei did), or it's just Hara's invention.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    The Quanrong are classified as Qiang people's too, according to wikipedia, and the Qiang were part of the "barbarians" knows as the Xirong. If they are Qiang, the famous general Ma Chao is descended from them haha, that's some interesting trivia. I wonder if there's records of Qin using them as mercenaries/soldiers (like other dynasties like Cao Wei did), or it's just Hara's invention.
    Xirong or Western Rong is a broad term used to identify all barbarians(i.e. people not from the central plains) from the west of China. Qiang tribes are mainly from the northwest region of modern China so you can classify them as Xirong. I looked up a bit on Ma Chao on wikipedia and he is interestingly a descendant of Ma Yuan, who is the descendant of Zhao She, or Chou Sha, one of the original 3GH in Kingdom and a prominent general of Zhao in history.

    If I remember correct, both Qin and Zhao did use non-Chinese mercenaries during that era but it probably wasn't well documented.

  6. #266
    The Fire Dragons arc and the Kokuyou arc were fictional wars made up by Hara.
    OMG this makes the FD arc even more infuriating, Hara could have easily made Qin lose that campaign no problem instead of humiliating the supposedly "great" FDs and reducing the Wei state to the status of joke.

  7. #267
    King updated the timeline on his website btw.

  8. #268
    So I'm currently reading a book about the Shang dynasty (the one that ruled before the Zhou, so around 1000 years before the late Warring States period) and apparently there were two recorded female generals, Fu Hao and Fu Jing, both wives of king Wu Ding. Apparently it was also common back then for wives and consorts of important aristocrats to handle important administrative duties and participating in military expeditions, so female generals in the Warring States period doesn't seem so crazy now



    Though of course YTW and Kyoukai being female is doubtful since something exceptional like that would have been recorded, I'm just talking about the possibility of their existence.

  9. #269
    If we're to assume that the current gen of GH will die when Zhao officially goes down (Houken/Riboku + soon to be SBS), will Hara do the state of Dai stuff? I'm thinking because Futei's goal of GH shouldn't really be wasted, so maybe Dai vs Qin could be a case of Futei + SSJ fighting for Dai with the carrot of a 3rd generation of Great Heaven above?

  10. #270
    Something I just found...maybe of interest, maybe nothing...

    - Den Rimi (from Ousen army) is called Tian Li Wei in Chinese.
    - One of the Qi Generals sent to stop the coalition was called 'Den Kaku'.
    - The historical monster from Qi who saved the state during the first Coalition was called 'Tian Dian'.

    If Tian in Japanese = Den in Chinese, perhaps he's related? Probably not, but who knows?

  11. #271
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    @magaxking;

    noticed a possible mistake in your blog talking about li xin's invasion of chu, here:

    https://magaxking.wordpress.com/2018...hu-in-history/

    here you note that li xin's defeat happened in 226 b.c., 21st year of ying zheng's rule. however, in both wikipedia, and another blog of yours "an investigation of qin general li xin" note that this occurred in either 225 b.c., 22nd year of ying zheng's rule or 224 b.c. 23rd year of ying zheng's rule.

    latter which is also more in line with hara's meng wu one-shot, and the "theory" that lord changping's potential betrayal of qin led to li xin's defeat; since it's noted there that he returned to chu after relinquishing his position in qin in 225 b.c, or 1 year before qin captured chu's capital in 224 b.c.

    -

    so seems like hara has it that shk betrayed qin in 225 b.c.

    the same year you previously recorded li xin's defeat to chu, and a year before wikipedia said he was defeated.

    just wondering which year is most accurate, i guess. since there's conflicting articles on your site, and elsewhere. 226 b.c., 225 b.c., or 224 b.c.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams
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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    @magaxking;

    noticed a possible mistake in your blog talking about li xin's invasion of chu, here:

    https://magaxking.wordpress.com/2018...hu-in-history/

    here you note that li xin's defeat happened in 226 b.c., 21st year of ying zheng's rule. however, in both wikipedia, and another blog of yours "an investigation of qin general li xin" note that this occurred in either 225 b.c., 22nd year of ying zheng's rule or 224 b.c. 23rd year of ying zheng's rule.

    latter which is also more in line with hara's meng wu one-shot, and the "theory" that lord changping's potential betrayal of qin led to li xin's defeat; since it's noted there that he returned to chu after relinquishing his position in qin in 225 b.c, or 1 year before qin captured chu's capital in 224 b.c.

    -

    so seems like hara has it that shk betrayed qin in 225 b.c.

    the same year you previously recorded li xin's defeat to chu, and a year before wikipedia said he was defeated.

    just wondering which year is most accurate, i guess. since there's conflicting articles on your site, and elsewhere. 226 b.c., 225 b.c., or 224 b.c.
    Sorry for the late reply and thanks for pointing out the mistakes, was busy recently and didn't really check Kingdom stuff regularly.

    I did some checks again and to be frank, there wasn't a clear indication of when exactly was Li Xin's defeat in Biographies of Bai Qi and Wang Jian. Li Xin's defeat wasn't even mentioned in Annals of Qin Shi Huang at all. What we can do is guess it through deduction.

    From Annals of Qin Shi Huang, it was clearly recorded that Wang Jian retired in 21st year of QSH's rule(226 BC). We can assume that his retirement was due to him losing the 200k vs 600k debate with Li Xin. So we can assume that the debate happened in 226 BC. This happened after the fall of the Yan capital, death of Crown Prince Dan and before Lord Changping's "migration" to Ying.

    Wang Ben flooded the Wei capital in the 22nd year of QSH's rule (225 BC) and Wang Jian was resummoned in the 23rd year(224BC) to start the final invasion of Chu, and later finally defeating Chu in the 24th year(223 BC). These events were all clearly recorded in Annals of Qin Shi Huang. However, Li Xin's invasion of Chu, or in fact even Li Xin's name, wasn't even recorded in Annals of Qin Shi Huang.

    In my post about Li Xin's invasion of Chu in history, my assumption is that Li Xin set off immidiately in 226 BC after winning the debate against Wang JIan. Maybe i will just remove that line to avoid confusion. The debate could have happaned near the end of the year and they may have also took some time to prepare for the invasion, which could have started in 225 BC instead. Can't find any hard evidence on that.

    For the translated article, i translated what the original author wrote. He didn't quote any source for the year of Li Xin's invasion of Chu so I wouldn't say he is right or wrong.

    For wikipedia, i wouldn't really trust it as anybody could've edited it with unreliable sources.

    Hope I sort of answered your question even though there isn't a sure answer to it.

  13. #273
    Speaking of SHK's betrayal, I wonder when we will start to see hints of what is to come?

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Speaking of SHK's betrayal, I wonder when we will start to see hints of what is to come?
    Naked outside of Moubu's house while crying on a rainy day

  15. #275
    we will probably see SHK's part when we are close to Chu arc, especially if Hara gonna use a similar reason to the one shot

  16. #276
    Hara version of SHK betrayal situation is better than 1000 fanfics by kingdom fanboys about him backstabbing Qin during Shin's campaign in Chu.

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