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  1. #41
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rIKI View Post
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    i mean let's just say you would have far fewer complaints if you made your seeding and brackets public knowledge from the beginning
    Complaints?

    But there are no brackets, I shuffle everything every time a round finishes. As for the seeding, it was nothing structured, just something to avoid 10 potential finalists to fall into the same group.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Complaints?
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/show...=1#post1161924

    probably more but too lazy to search

    also i didn't participate much in it but i seem to remember ppl saying similar stuff when u ran that character tournament a while back

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    But there are no brackets, I shuffle everything every time a round finishes. As for the seeding, it was nothing structured, just something to avoid 10 potential finalists to fall into the same group.
    that is the entire problem

  3. #43
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    You should have clear brackets like the Poster Tournament

  4. #44
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rIKI View Post
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    http://www.millenniumforums.com/show...=1#post1161924

    probably more but too lazy to search

    also i didn't participate much in it but i seem to remember ppl saying similar stuff when u ran that character tournament a while back



    that is the entire problem
    In the tournament you mentioned there were public brackets though. Did it stop the complaints about it being rigged? No. And it's just natural: if I had the intention to rig the matchups I could do it with or without brackets.

  5. #45
    which is also why i said you should make it clear how you seeded the groups initially

  6. #46
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rIKI View Post
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    which is also why i said you should make it clear how you seeded the groups initially
    Again, I used no seeding for the 32-entries tournament. It's randomness. How am I supposed to prove beyond any doubt it is randomness and not my caprices to build the matchups? There's no way.

  7. #47
    that's just more proof that random seeding sucks :>

    if by 32-entry tournament you mean this one, then you could easily come up with an arbitrary seeding system like % total votes in their group or something like that

    it's probably somewhat representative of how successful an entry will be and it's also easy to do and hard to argue against

    - - - Updated - - -

    also you can't argue that randomizing the matchups every round significantly increases the likelihood of bias

  8. #48
    The Illest Villain The Bald Headed Negro's Avatar
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    Oh look, Crispy cant run a tournament


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rIKI View Post
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    that's just more proof that random seeding sucks :>

    if by 32-entry tournament you mean this one, then you could easily come up with an arbitrary seeding system like % total votes in their group or something like that

    it's probably somewhat representative of how successful an entry will be and it's also easy to do and hard to argue against
    I am well aware you're a fan of seeding. Actually, seeding makes sense sometimes, but in most cases like the 32-entries tournaments randomness makes it less predictable, more interesting and overall crazier. Seeding generally grants a more realistic final 8 / final 4 phase, but with the price of the 80% of the matches being boring as hell and no real chance to get unplanned excitement.

    also you can't argue that randomizing the matchups every round significantly increases the likelihood of bias
    This is very true, I had... experienced that on my own skin

    I accepted the fact of being often target of some critics to guarantee more exciting tourneys using the randomness factor. I think it's worth it.

    I can make brackets for the next rounds but there won't be any seeding, as it has really no reason to exist in a 8-entries tournament, which would be what this tourney will become after the end of this round.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    I am well aware you're a fan of seeding. Actually, seeding makes sense sometimes, but in most cases like the 32-entries tournaments randomness makes it less predictable, more interesting and overall crazier. Seeding generally grants a more realistic final 8 / final 4 phase, but with the price of the 80% of the matches being boring as hell and no real chance to get unplanned excitement.
    but you yourself said you moved some entries around in the group stage

    how do you do that while disliking seeding for this reason

    also seeds don't have to be representative of strength, you could seed them by the order they were nominated and it would still be better than doing it randomly

  11. #51
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rIKI View Post
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    but you yourself said you moved some entries around in the group stage

    how do you do that while disliking seeding for this reason

    also seeds don't have to be representative of strength, you could seed them by the order they were nominated and it would still be better than doing it randomly
    The group phase had 10 entries per group of which only 3 or 4 could pass. Have 6 top tier games in one group and you've done a terrible omelette. Those are supposed to be prelims, not the real thing, just to determine the actual best 32 entries to have them brawling between each other in a more scenic way. That's why I never told you I dislike seeding, I find it useful but only under certain circumstances.

    Using an algorithm that builds matchup with criteria that are fundamentally random-looking but can block the host from moving stuff around? I used something like that in some Kingdom stuff where I wanted to avoid getting accused at all costs, it's an interesting way to save barrack and puppets at the same time but sure it requires a bit of effort.

  12. #52
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    You could have seeded them by Metacritic score or something.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
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    You could have seeded them by Metacritic score or something.
    Yeah, that or even votes gotten in the prelims, like Riki said. There are plenty of ways to seed them but I don't want to do that in first place.

  14. #54

  15. #55
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Phantom Pain, Witcher 3, Melee, Okami, Shadow of the Colossus, Bloodborne and Snake Eater get to the final 8.

    Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, having tied, are both eliminated.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, having tied, are both eliminated.
    T-they're both out? That only leaves seven.

    I would've removed my WW vote if I knew that would happen

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    T-they're both out? That only leaves seven.

    I would've removed my WW vote if I knew that would happen
    What are you saying General? 2 great enemies of Okami wiped eachother out. This is victory!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangsta View Post
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    What are you saying General? 2 great enemies of Okami wiped eachother out. This is victory!
    I suppose. I guess I have a soft spot for WW.

    But it doesn't matter now, please forgive me

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    I suppose. I guess I have a soft spot for WW.

    But it doesn't matter now, please forgive me
    We all have soft spot for Zelda. It's fine, but the General should never show hesitation.

  20. #60

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