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  1. #21
    I already held the cat and the dog in high-esteem, so this didn't change much for me.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    I already held the cat and the dog in high-esteem, so this didn't change much for me.
    Agreed it didn't change anything for me, only reinforced what I believed about their strength.

  3. #23
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
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    For someone who is all about reading between the lines and portrayal you seem to be missing the obvious point Oda was trying to make. That Capone is outside his ballpark, Nekomamushi is on another level. No way is Capone giving him high.

    He also didn't seem blood-lusted to me and remember he was still very injured and recovering.
    By that point Capone was already established as a character who'd rather not get his hands dirty. Why would he pick a battle he has no chance of winning when he's on a vital mission? We should be past the point of underestimating the representatives of the Worst Generation. None of the Supernovas are pipsqueaks to Inuarashi and Nekomamushi.

    Sorry, but I'm not falling for Oda's false hype again. Especially with these arc allies. Remember the whole Kyros thing? People were saying he was Luffy/Zoro/Law level during Dressrosa. I believed it too, but look how that turned out.

  4. #24
    But unlike Kyros, we got solid feats for both the Dukes right off the bat.

    We were shown with their flashback fighting against a Yonkou's top three. A man with a billion bounty on his head. Clearly a different case compared to the past arc allies. These two have been receiving a lot of hype with feats backing them up.



  5. #25
    bode expiatório Kaang's Avatar
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    people are really blowing this out of proportion. Capone was reacting to how monstrous Neku was. his apperance, his aura everything about him is intimidating. He wasn't scared of neku. he would be useless to big mam if he scared that easily.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night of Darkness View Post
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    But unlike Kyros, we got solid feats for both the Dukes right off the bat.

    We were shown with their flashback fighting against a Yonkou's top three. A man with a billion bounty on his head. Clearly a different case compared to the past arc allies. These two have been receiving a lot of hype with feats backing them up.
    You honestly think Kid and Law couldn't have put up a fight against Base/Mammoth Jack? All he was doing was swinging around his trunk and hacking away with his sickles. You're not giving the top Supernovas enough respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaang View Post
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    people are really blowing this out of proportion. Capone was reacting to how monstrous Neku was. his apperance, his aura everything about him is intimidating. He wasn't scared of neku. he would be useless to big mam if he scared that easily.
    Can't believe I'm agreeing with Kaang here.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by M View Post
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    By that point Capone was already established as a character who'd rather not get his hands dirty. Why would he pick a battle he has no chance of winning when he's on a vital mission? We should be past the point of underestimating the representatives of the Worst Generation. None of the Supernovas are pipsqueaks to Inuarashi and Nekomamushi.

    Sorry, but I'm not falling for Oda's false hype again. Especially with these arc allies. Remember the whole Kyros thing? People were saying he was Luffy/Zoro/Law level during Dressrosa. I believed it too, but look how that turned out.
    You keep failing to see the point. The emphasis wasn't on Capone being caught off guard or him not wanting to get his hands dirty. What was emphasized was very clear. That Nekomamushi is crazy strong. Simply from the strength Capone gauged he started sweating profusely and then proceeded to high tail it out of there in a comedic way that invoked a villain cartoonishly and cowardly running away. It was a no comparison, that Nekomamushi plays a completely different ball game than Capone.

    But Nekomamushi is NOT Kyros and it's not the same story always. Kyros can still give someone like Law a respectable fight though and I think he can push Sanji quite far so him being M3 level isn't far-fetched and never was, to me anyways. Also don't mention the Hyouzou situation because Oda is going out of his way to reinforce Nekomamushi being super duper strong twice now, meaning it isn't some outlier or PIS like with Hyouzou. And also with his feat against Jack.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by M View Post
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    You honestly think Kid and Law couldn't have put up a fight against Base/Mammoth Jack? All he was doing was swinging around his trunk and hacking away with his sickles. You're not giving the top Supernovas enough respect.

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    Can't believe I'm agreeing with Kaang here.
    For 12 hours straight? With just scuffle marks and huffing? Nah.

    I do give the top Supernovas their credit but the two Dukes are just too strong right now in my eyes.

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    If the two Dukes do happened to be shown weaker than Luffy/Zoro/Law in the future, it could also be because of their lost limbs recently.



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night of Darkness View Post
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    If the two Dukes do happened to be shown weaker than Luffy/Zoro/Law in the future, it could also be because of their lost limbs recently.
    Good point. They probably went down a sub-tier or something from their lost limbs.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
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    You keep failing to see the point. The emphasis wasn't on Capone being caught off guard or him not wanting to get his hands dirty. What was emphasized was very clear. That Nekomamushi is crazy strong. Simply from the strength Capone gauged he started sweating profusely and then proceeded to high tail it out of there in a comedic way that invoked a villain cartoonishly and cowardly running away. It was a no comparison, that Nekomamushi plays a completely different ball game to Capone.
    I'm not even disagreeing with the notion that the Dukes are monsters... but so are the Supernovas. I'm just sick of people downplaying them, when it's clear how big of a deal they are. We're never gonna see the fabled "Silver Medalists" that Chinjao and Croc mentioned.

    Capone is Big Mom's strongest ally as far as I'm concerned. He's the one who's gonna get the most prominence and focus. Just as Drake is Kaido's strongest ally.

    But Nekomamushi is NOT Kyros and it's not the same story always. Kyros can still give someone like Law a respectable fight though and I think he can push Sanji quite far so him being M3 level isn't far-fetched and never was, to me anyways. Also don't mention the Hyouzou situation because Oda is going out of his way to reinforce Nekomamushi being super duper strong twice now, meaning it isn't some outlier or PIS like with Hyouzou. And also with his feat against Jack.
    But there's a precedent... If Oda can do it one arc ago with Kyros, he can do it again. Obviously he won't do it to such a degree, but the Dukes aren't as strong as Luffy or Zoro. I'm being safe and placing them with the other top Supernovas. Nothing they did struck me as out-of-this-world or beyond the scope of what Law and Kid can do.

    Tell me you can't see the top of the Worst Generation giving Base/Mammoth Jack a respectable high-diff fight. And THEN once he goes Hybrid he proceeds to mid-diff them, or even low-diff them with Awakening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Night of Darkness View Post
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    For 12 hours straight? With just scuffle marks and huffing? Nah.

    I do give the top Supernovas their credit but the two Dukes are just too strong right now in my eyes.

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    If the two Dukes do happened to be shown weaker than Luffy/Zoro/Law in the future, it could also be because of their lost limbs recently.


    Did you see what Law went through in Dressrosa? He has insane endurance. Of course I can see him and Kid lasting 12 hours against a defensive fighter like Jack.

  11. #31
    Jack isn't really a defensive fighter.



  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night of Darkness View Post
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    Jack isn't really a defensive fighter.
    He's not really an offensive fighter either.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by M View Post
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    He's not really an offensive fighter either.
    Pretty sure he is.

    He uses his trunk in his mammoth form and his two sickles in his human form.



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night of Darkness View Post
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    Pretty sure he is.

    He uses his trunk in his mammoth form and his two sickles in his human form.
    Neither of those are gonna take out a top Supernova in 12 hours.

  15. #35
    bode expiatório Kaang's Avatar
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    Neku is strong so is Inu. My impressionis that are both about as strong or stronger than Doflamingo. What people don't understand is that Luffy is only the first Supernova to surpass Dofla. The rest will soon follow. Also that for the supernova beating jack still isn't a posibilty. It's one thing to be powerful, it's a whole nother thing to be as strong and as fast as certain characters.

    People like to look at law like he's all hax with diminished physical attributes. Though in honesty comparing his childhood to Luffy's Law is a beast in all aspects on top of his hax. Capone might be as powerful as neku but when it comes to just pure brute strenght he's no match. I mean pure brute strenght is one thing and it's easy to get around that but once it gets a hold of you it's no joke. I mean there are certain characters who are strong because they are strong and characters who are powerful on top of being strong.

    Just like how Ace was a monster even before he got his DF. He was just as much as a monster as sabo even more. After he got his DF was he still physically as threatening as sabo without it? Who knows thats up to Oda to decide. probably not. So many people attribute strenght to characters like Zoro they hold it exclusively to him without realizing their are tons of characters that exceed in physical abitly. I know i'm not making a whole lot of sense but what i'm saying is you can't stereotype One Piece characters attributes.

    Saying Law is sick and weakly because it goes with his apperance.For all you know Capone or Bonney could be the third strongest physically. Luffy might not be the fastest. Regardless of where Capone stands with Neku he is in fact very strong. Strong enough to escape the minks.

  16. #36
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    I haven't been willing to place them above Zoro so quickly and I'm still not. They're super hyped and extremely strong but this is Zoro we're talking about. The man who made a laughing stock of a man the size of a mountain and sliced said mountainous forms in half with a single attack. The man who tried with the world's strongest swordsman for two years, training that should be comparable to that of the main character himself who has become outrageously strong through his. The man who despite the above hasn't even been pushed in the slightest by anyone other than an Admiral, whom he was still completely confident in his ability to fight at a later point. The man who is consistently one of the most consistently respected characters in the entire series for his strength that doesn't look bad standing next to the MC's own. The man who given that will almost certainly look nothing short of absolutely insanely impressive once Oda finally lets him go all-out. It's quite possible that he is a man who will beat a Calamity of Kaido by himself in just a few arcs time, given the way the story is going, his lack of being pushed even in the slightest and the fact even an Admiral respected his power and he was confident to fight one.

    Am I ready to put Inuarashi and Nekomamushi so readily above that man? No. I'm not. While I could agree they would probably have the initial advantage and such, it's not a fight I could agree Zoro would lose for certain. It's a fight that would push him to his limits and we know that's the kind of fight Zoro excels at. And given what those limits may be, given Zoro's showings up until now, I think they're quite a high bar.

  17. #37
    The Indomitable Spirit The Shogun of Shoguns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I haven't been willing to place them above Zoro so quickly and I'm still not. They're super hyped and extremely strong but this is Zoro we're talking about. The man who made a laughing stock of a man the size of a mountain and sliced said mountainous forms in half with a single attack. The man who tried with the world's strongest swordsman for two years, training that should be comparable to that of the main character himself who has become outrageously strong through his. The man who despite the above hasn't even been pushed in the slightest by anyone other than an Admiral, whom he was still completely confident in his ability to fight at a later point. The man who is consistently one of the most consistently respected characters in the entire series for his strength that doesn't look bad standing next to the MC's own. The man who given that will almost certainly look nothing short of absolutely insanely impressive once Oda finally lets him go all-out. It's quite possible that he is a man who will beat a Calamity of Kaido by himself in just a few arcs time, given the way the story is going, his lack of being pushed even in the slightest and the fact even an Admiral respected his power and he was confident to fight one.

    Am I ready to put Inuarashi and Nekomamushi so readily above that man? No. I'm not. While I could agree they would probably have the initial advantage and such, it's not a fight I could agree Zoro would lose for certain. It's a fight that would push him to his limits and we know that's the kind of fight Zoro excels at. And given what those limits may be, given Zoro's showings up until now, I think they're quite a high bar.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
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    So do people still think they're only Law level at best?? Or are they Doflamingo level? Or somewhere between Yonkou's top mates and Doflamingo? And why?
    Yonkou's top mates
    Doffy
    Inu/Neko
    Law

    That's how I rate them. It's just that after DressRosa and all the hype and feats Doflamingo was given, I don't think Oda would immediately introduce two characters stronger than him when they probably won't play much of a role outside of the current arc.

  19. #39
    I think they are slightly under Doffy at best.


  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    Yonkou's top mates
    Doffy
    Inu/Neko
    Law

    That's how I rate them. It's just that after DressRosa and all the hype and feats Doflamingo was given, I don't think Oda would immediately introduce two characters stronger than him when they probably won't play much of a role outside of the current arc.
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