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Thread: Fairy Tail

  1. #26541
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    numinous and mak already told you why the fish example doesn't work

    the mael calc isn't comparable, either.
    No, using the time period for a fish dying isn't compatible.

    Using it for the VITALITY/STAMINA of a fish is fine.

    We're always been fine using real life averages for scalings and calcs. Just look at using generic person height or 1/120 for blitzing normal humans



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  2. #26542
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Obviously average height should not have been used either by you because you abused the heck of it and made the FT world appear like a giant one. Nobody will forget the multiple hundred meter big Acnologia and the giant Natsu you were pulling out





  3. #26543
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Hell, we've used average sizes for tons of things in calcs

    Trees, windows, animal/people heights, temperatures for water, types of rock/material destroyed

    Tons of averaged out stuff for generic purposes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Obviously average height should not have been used either by you because you abused the heck of it and made the FT world appear like a giant one. Nobody will forget the multiple hundred meter big Acnologia and the giant Natsu you were pulling out

    Acnologia was MUCH bigger when he was first introduced. That's factual. His head was multiple times taller than people like Freed.

    But as we've already discussed the size of dragons were inconsistent until the GMG arc.

    Plus the FT planet is huge. Most fictional shonen planets have been so far



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  4. #26544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    Hell, we've used average sizes for tons of things in calcs

    Trees, windows, animal/people heights, temperatures for water, types of rock/material destroyed

    Tons of averaged out stuff for generic purposes

    - - - Updated - - -




    Acnologia was MUCH bigger when he was first introduced. That's factual. His head was multiple times taller than people like Freed.

    But as we've already discussed the size of dragons were inconsistent until the GMG arc.

    Plus the FT planet is huge. Most fictional shonen planets have been so far
    Planet being big means that Natsu is a giant ?





  5. #26545
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    No. Stay on topic please.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I recall The WB quake calc assumes the boat is at least as fast as an IRL boat to get a massive amount of things



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  6. #26546
    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    Generic ass fish.

    Should fit fine into the Le Average Fish Numbers
    There's multiple species of generic ass fish that are perfectly fine for hours out of water.

    Regardless if you have to assume the fish type and assume the duration of it's exposure to air then it's an assumed timeframe and KE won't be used.
    Was the fish exposed for 3 seconds? 10seconds? seconds? If you can't prove it, you can't use it.

  7. #26547
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numinous One View Post
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    There's multiple species of generic ass fish that are perfectly fine for hours out of water.

    Regardless if you have to assume the fish type and assume the duration of it's exposure to air then it's an assumed timeframe and KE won't be used.
    Was the fish exposed for 3 seconds? 10seconds? seconds? If you can't prove it, you can't use it.
    Irrelevant. We're using the average. Not specifics.

    Thusly, the fish falls under the average we're using.

    And it's NOT assumed. It's a minimum.

    It's UP TO 30s, that being the end area of them being out of water doesn't cause risk to mortality or loss in stamina/vitality. We're using the MAX of the average for fish out of water. You already agreed to it

    It's absolutely bullshit to suddenly claim animal averages and basises are suddenly not something that are used in calcs and scaling when suddenly it benefits FT, just like how no one EVER questions the translations unless it's FT then it's look up the Kanji

    This is using a minimum, which is allowed. Even in the Mael feat recently you guys were fine using a minimum



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  8. #26548
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Again, the fish statement was made for how fishermen handle it and it only stated there was no significant risk of mortality under 30 seconds. It made zero mention of mortality risk over 30 seconds and made zero comments about fish "vitality" at all.


    If you guys want to argue about what some wildlife experts recorded watching anglers do and claim it as some sort of timeframe, please take it to the UBD.

  9. #26549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Again, the fish statement was made for how fishermen handle it and it only stated there was no significant risk of mortality under 30 seconds. It made zero mention of mortality risk over 30 seconds and made zero comments about fish "vitality" at all.


    If you guys want to argue about what some wildlife experts recorded watching anglers do and claim it as some sort of timeframe, please take it to the UBD.

    https://tetonvalleylodge.com/hold-trout-out-of-water/

    How long Idaho anglers hold trout out of water: 26 seconds on average.
    Researchers found anglers really don’t put any more stress on fish than hooking and landing them does. The majority of studies show there is no substantial mortality to fish exposed to air for less than 30 seconds.



    Meaning on average under 30 seconds is fine, which is also not including the stress and strain put upon them by the upshift of water.

    This also carries along with the feat itself happening in a clear short span.



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  10. #26550
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    https://tetonvalleylodge.com/hold-trout-out-of-water/

    How long Idaho anglers hold trout out of water: 26 seconds on average.
    Researchers found anglers really don’t put any more stress on fish than hooking and landing them does. The majority of studies show there is no substantial mortality to fish exposed to air for less than 30 seconds.



    Meaning on average under 30 seconds is fine, which is also not including the stress and strain put upon them by the upshift of water.

    This also carries along with the feat itself happening in a clear short span.
    Again, it talks about how there's no significant mortality for fish under thirty seconds. Never mentions how, or if, it goes up after 30 seconds. And talks nothing about the vitality. Especially as a quick google search will have swathes of actual anglers talking about how fish are fine for minutes or hours after capture, and several experts talking about how fish fighting or quality of water changing these numbers dramatically, with the higher quality water giving them a significant boost of time. I'm all for interpretation, but wholesale invention of what someone is saying isn't something I'm comfortable with here.

    Double again, this thread isn't for talking about UBD matters. So if that's what people want to do take it to the appropriate subforum. So if you want to continue this conversation with someone? Make a thread there. It's not appropriate for the general FT thread.

  11. #26551
    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    Irrelevant. We're using the average. Not specifics.

    Thusly, the fish falls under the average we're using.

    And it's NOT assumed. It's a minimum.

    It's UP TO 30s, that being the end area of them being out of water doesn't cause risk to mortality or loss in stamina/vitality. We're using the MAX of the average for fish out of water. You already agreed to it

    It's absolutely bullshit to suddenly claim animal averages and basises are suddenly not something that are used in calcs and scaling when suddenly it benefits FT, just like how no one EVER questions the translations unless it's FT then it's look up the Kanji

    This is using a minimum, which is allowed. Even in the Mael feat recently you guys were fine using a minimum
    I never agreed to it lol

    Average fish can survive for minutes to hours outside of water unless under massive stress from fighting for their life and bleeding out the mouth and gills from being on the end of a fishing line. That's the context of the "average" you're pushing for, an average for fish under immense stress being removed from the water. Which doesn't apply in any way to this fish.
    Stop being pissy when people look at shit without bias.

    It doesn't matter what the series is, if something is in doubt you should defer to the raw, rather than rely on possible mistranslations.

    Others were fine using the minimum because others hadn't figured out how to find a timeframe without assumptions. I wasn't, so I looked for an actual timeframe and then calculated it.
    Fuck off with your victim bullshit and try to be objective for once in your life.

  12. #26552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Again, it talks about how there's no significant mortality for fish under thirty seconds. Never mentions how, or if, it goes up after 30 seconds. And talks nothing about the vitality. Especially as a quick google search will have swathes of actual anglers talking about how fish are fine for minutes or hours after capture, and several experts talking about how fish fighting or quality of water changing these numbers dramatically, with the higher quality water giving them a significant boost of time. I'm all for interpretation, but wholesale invention of what someone is saying isn't something I'm comfortable with here.

    Double again, this thread isn't for talking about UBD matters. So if that's what people want to do take it to the appropriate subforum. So if you want to continue this conversation with someone? Make a thread there. It's not appropriate for the general FT thread.

    Yes, specific fish.

    We're talking about the average of a fish.

    Yeah sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'll take it to the UBD then

    Gotta have to in a different thread until the for some reason meta dome ban I got goes away



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  13. #26553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    No. Stay on topic please.

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    I recall The WB quake calc assumes the boat is at least as fast as an IRL boat to get a massive amount of things
    Wait, did the WB calc really assume the boat's speed to find the distance? How was it ever accepted..?

  14. #26554
    From what I see everyone keeps saying it took longer than a few/30s, which is wrong and biggest assumption.The moment he rose out the water all the water came up with him (at the same time) in a matter of sec. You assume that areas of water from where Merc is, was lifted much slower than the water at his location or it took him longer to do it. It was clearly within 10(to me)-30s like rax said. Nothings shows that it's as slow going as most are making out to be. That panel was just a way of show immediate effects after he lifted the sea. Trying to slap a over extended time frame to something that happened in a instant like this is what leads to all the confusion.

  15. #26555
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    I was also gonna mention a possible time frame of smoke dispersion if anyone is interested



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  16. #26556
    Dai Don Dedede's Avatar
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    What's the point of calcing a magical feat anyway?

    It's not like it means he's able to lift that amount of weight in any case no matter what time frame you want to choose.
    And the speed at which he raises it tells you nothing of the potency of the attack that follows

    Though I'll agree that assuming they just stayed there and stared at him slowly lifting water up for 30 seconds before even commenting is kinda silly especially with how their reactions were portrayed.

  17. #26557
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    But it does



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