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  1. #21
    ★Super★ Franky's Avatar
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    Great Potato I'm happy you see it my way :jirou

  2. #22
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    -So Kuma charges his Ursus shock and launches it, but it crashes against the barrier. This is the most crucial part of the match for me, the one deciding the winner, is if Bartolomeo's barrier is equipped to deal with such an attack. Bartolomeo's barrier is pretty much invincible to straightforward attacks, but the Ursus Shock expands outwards in an omnidirectional blast that covers a very large AoE. Now the blast should collide against the barrier and explode, I suppose I can give Blackbeard some benefit of being safe directly behind it, but at this point I'd say he's at least 25 meters away from his team who are liable to be caught in the blast.

    So I'm going to go with my gut and say a 15m x 15m barrier isn't going to stop this.


    -If the blast goes off then Ultra's bag of fodder will be caught in it, which is pretty much game over because Teach's battle plan from this point on completely relies on the abilities gained from the shadows.

    [Franky]

    It feels like an iffy call here, but if Ultra's bag is taken out then so is the rest of his strategy.
    - Kuma's prep at Thriller Bark took quite a while. It's not like he can spam these things. Perhaps he can produce them more quickly than he's shown, but for Kuma to take out my bag of fodder in the small window where blackbeard is using his barrier requires quick preparation and execution.

    - And I mean quick, because Teach is only using the barrier for as long as it takes him to soru 87m straight ahead.

    - On top of this, Ursus shock is an expanding shockwave. Even Teach is using the barrier at a distance in front of them, as long as they're aligned on the same plane, theoretically it should protect the back of my team too. Assuming the barrier blocks the part of Ursus Shock that hits it, that part of the expanding bubble should be cancelled out for the rest of the distance behind it, too.

    - Why would Ursus Shock undo a tied bag?

  3. #23
    ★Super★ Franky's Avatar
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    Why should a tied bag protect you from Ursa Shock?

    Also, my understanding is although it expands it engulfs things and crushes uses the compressed air. As in it would engulf the barrier and your team and surround you on all sides with compressed air.

  4. #24
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
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    Why should a tied bag protect you from Ursa Shock?

    Also, my understanding is although it expands it engulfs things and crushes uses the compressed air. As in it would engulf the barrier and your team and surround you on all sides with compressed air.
    Ursus shock didn't kill anybody on TB, so the only real danger to my fodder is if it unties the bag and exposes them to light.

    But if the compressed air directly in front of me is blocked, I should be fine. The shockwave expands outwards, the part that isn't blocked by the barrier isn't going to do any harm it'll just keep going.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MK Ultra View Post
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    - Kuma's prep at Thriller Bark took quite a while. It's not like he can spam these things. Perhaps he can produce them more quickly than he's shown, but for Kuma to take out my bag of fodder in the small window where blackbeard is using his barrier requires quick preparation and execution.

    - And I mean quick, because Teach is only using the barrier for as long as it takes him to soru 87m straight ahead.
    You act as though Blackbeard's going to zip off right at the start of the match. Your team first has to prepare the seastone for Blackbeard to use, and have Moria transfer the shadows, in the time it takes you to do that the Ursus Shock will be prepared.

    -On top of this, Ursus shock is an expanding shockwave. Even Teach is using the barrier at a distance in front of them, as long as they're aligned on the same plane, theoretically it should protect the back of my team too. Assuming the barrier blocks the part of Ursus Shock that hits it, that part of the expanding bubble should be cancelled out for the rest of the distance behind it, too.
    Theoretically it should. But Oda chooses to portray the attack as some kind of expanding bubble that's not phased by physical obstacles, the thing even has fingers on it.

    -Why would Ursus Shock undo a tied bag?
    It won't untie the bag, but if the people inside the bag die from the attack then their shadows will be rendered inert. An attack like that could very well tear the bag open regardless.



    Where exactly are you guys located on this island anyways? It's not exactly a leveled playing field.

  6. #26
    ★Super★ Franky's Avatar
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    The thing didn't kill them... but it sure as fuck knocked them out. Again, if Bartolomeo goes down then so does the rest of your team.

  7. #27
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    You act as though Blackbeard's going to zip off right at the start of the match. Your team first has to prepare the seastone for Blackbeard to use, and have Moria transfer the shadows, in the time it takes you to do that the Ursus Shock will be prepared.



    Theoretically it should. But Oda chooses to portray the attack as some kind of expanding bubble that's not phased by physical obstacles, the thing even has fingers on it.



    It won't untie the bag, but if the people inside the bag die from the attack then their shadows will be rendered inert.



    Where exactly are you guys located on this island anyways? It's not exactly a leveled playing field.
    What if Kuma gets off an Ursus right when my team finished prepping? Then he'll have to make another one within the window of Teach's execution. The prep could help me, in that case. It could also hurt me too, potentially. It's not something that you can exactly determine. However, I think the situation is more likely in my favor since there's not a huge window where my team will be unprotected. In a situation like this you can only weigh the odds against each other. And I don't believe the odds of me hit are as high.

    Ursus shock goes through rubble, but that's quite different than going through Bart's barrier. Also, the scrubbiest of scrubs at TB didn't die from Ursus, why should my bagged team?

    As for where we're placed...idk. I'd assume the lowest level of the island.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
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    The thing didn't kill them... but it sure as fuck knocked them out. Again, if Bartolomeo goes down then so does the rest of your team.
    Shadowless fodder are already unconscious.

  8. #28
    ★Super★ Franky's Avatar
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    On NF it's always been that huge low level of the island.


    Also, again, the Ursa shock sure as hell knocked them all out. The issue is that if Bart goes down you have no protection from all of my shit flying at you, not to mention my underground team taking out your sleeping fodder.

  9. #29
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
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    On NF it's always been that huge low level of the island.


    Also, again, the Ursa shock sure as hell knocked them all out. The issue is that if Bart goes down you have no protection from all of my shit flying at you, not to mention my underground team taking out your sleeping fodder.
    Barts the only one who will definitely be protected, lol.

  10. #30
    I don't think the actual shock should by pass the barrier but it should be able to quickly fill the area behind it due to the rapid expansion of compressed air.

    Im leaning towards franky, Ursus shock is definitely the biggest deal for your team.

  11. #31
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V View Post
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    I don't think the actual shock should by pass the barrier but it should be able to quickly fill the area behind it due to the rapid expansion of compressed air.

    Im leaning towards franky, Ursus shock is definitely the biggest deal for your team.
    Fair enough. But if you consider how long Ursus Shock takes to prep and that Teach's use of the barrier won't take long, I'd say the odds or more towards Ursus not hitting at that exact time.

    Especially since he'll probably already throw one out right as I'm done prepping, and would need to prep a second one in time.

    Also it's not going to kill who's in the bag anyway.
    Last edited by Ultra; 08-19-2015 at 12:23 AM.

  12. #32
    Definitely but there are a lot more projectiles being spammed in the direction to buy the time necessary, it also doesn't take that long to prep one of these.

  13. #33
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V View Post
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    Definitely but there are a lot more projectiles being spammed in the direction to buy the time necessary, it also doesn't take that long to prep one of these.
    Like I said, him finishing one should coincide with me finishing my prep, just about.

    So when Kuma fires off the first one my team should be perfectly safe.

    Then he'll be prepping the 2nd one while BB sets up, and I doubt he can get it off before I recall the barrier.

    Othe projectiles he's firing won't help him, since he's just stationary spamming I should be protected by the barrier from everything but potentially Ursus.

    And again I stress - Ursus Shock didn't kill anyone at TB. It knocked weaker people out - but my team in the sack is already unconscious. If it didn't even knock out Zoro at low health nobody in the sack should die to just 1.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @V; is that all you're not sold on? Like do you think I could win if it weren't for this.
    Last edited by Ultra; 08-19-2015 at 01:07 AM.

  14. #34
    Nobody really dies outside of flashbacks in One Piece, it's the kind of PIS I like to ignore in these types of things because then we can just throw out stuff like Pagaya surviving El Thor or Pell and the bomb, among several other instances. But regardless of that it's just a blanket you've thrown on them, which is something that can get easily torn up in the blast regardless if it's tied or not.

  15. #35
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    Nobody really dies outside of flashbacks in One Piece, it's the kind of PIS I like to ignore in these types of things because then we can just throw out stuff like Pagaya surviving El Thor or Pell and the bomb, among several other instances. But regardless of that it's just a blanket you've thrown on them, which is something that can get easily torn up in the blast regardless if it's tied or not.
    But we have the empirical proof; an exhausted Zoro wasn't even knocked out. So nobody in the sack should die, they're all strong enough to take at least one.

    So Ursus shock bypasses physical objects but would tear up the bag to shreds? Why? TB's flag wasn't shredded by it.

    Also, why are you so confident the timing of Ursus will coincide with the moment I'm vulnerable? How long do you think Kuma takes to prep ursus vs how long I'm vulnerable?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by MK Ultra View Post
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    But we have the empirical proof; an exhausted Zoro wasn't even knocked out. So nobody in the sack should die, they're all strong enough to take at least one.

    So Ursus shock bypasses physical objects but would tear up the bag to shreds? Why? TB's flag wasn't shredded by it.

    Also, why are you so confident the timing of Ursus will coincide with the moment I'm vulnerable? How long do you think Kuma takes to prep ursus vs how long I'm vulnerable?
    Right, okay then.

    I'll withdraw my vote for now.

  17. #37
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    So you think that people who were just knocked out are of Zoro's Calibur? Like, taking their Shadow already knocks them out, they aren't like bracing themselves or anything. Not to mention, the lasers that Teach doesn't block with the 15m by 15m barrier will likely fly by and strike them, have you not considered this? If Teach and Bart are completely focused on blocking everything that COULD hit their fodder then my underground team has plenty of time to go and stab them or whatever on their own.

  18. #38
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    So I'd like to point out how everyone seems to forget Blueno is pelting Bart and co with Muggy Balls from above as well

  19. #39
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Guess it's sudden death, now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
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    So you think that people who were just knocked out are of Zoro's Calibur? Like, taking their Shadow already knocks them out, they aren't like bracing themselves or anything. Not to mention, the lasers that Teach doesn't block with the 15m by 15m barrier will likely fly by and strike them, have you not considered this? If Teach and Bart are completely focused on blocking everything that COULD hit their fodder then my underground team has plenty of time to go and stab them or whatever on their own.
    How will the lasers strike my team directly behind the barrier? You haven't instructed Franky to reposition himself.

    Teach isn't focused on blocking once the barriers recalled, he'll destroy your underground team very easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
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    So I'd like to point out how everyone seems to forget Blueno is pelting Bart and co with Muggy Balls from above as well
    If Blueno has to go into the doa dimension, travel all the way to our side, and then get in the air to drop them his time will be almost out. He's very easy to guard against and take care of.

    Muggy balls

  20. #40
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    @Great Potato;

    What do you think the odds of me winning are if Ursus doesn't fuck me up in that window of time? If you think my odds of winning are high if that goes smoothly, then you should vote for me.

    Even if you think Ursus does have the potential to fuck me up, not only do you have to weigh the odds of it killing my fodder vs not killing it, you have to weigh the strats against each other too. For example if you think Ursus has 50% chance of fucking me up like you described, but if assuming everything goes right my strat > his, then you can't say for sure what the outcome is but you can determine that I'm the more likely victor.

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