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  1. #1
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Is the Rindou a real thing?

    I've been asking myself since I saw it the first time. Is the Rindou realistically possible in real warfare?

    At first, I thought that its impact would have been realistic, but a perfect execution was so difficult that nobody could emulate it correctly. But it seems that at least the first phase is something that is possible and it has been used in battle too.

    Recently, I happened to discover a mongol/eastern european tactic, which has two wings of cavalry archers performing two circles in motion, in front of the enemy lines. The idea is to let the mounted archers fire constantly at the enemy, and I'm sure it has is pretty big impact on the opponents morale.

    Apparently, it's the same as here:


    This tactic usually ends with the enemy advancing forward to engage the cavalry archers, and they flee instead. But they don't retreat backwards: both the circles break and the left wing escapes towards the left, and the other to the right. This way, they can keep firing arrows across the whole enemy line while withdrawing, covering an eventual ally melee force coming forward.

    Instead, the Rindou is not a covering tactic, but quite the opposite, a break-through move. Now, the mechanics are pretty well explained in the manga, but how far can we go with those notions? First, the two giant wheels of elite cavalry. Then, the effect of making the enemy centre lighter. And finally, the strike right in the centre.



    I want to know your opinion about the matter. More specifically:
    _ Can the Rindou work?
    _ If so, is it truly that devastating?
    _ If so, is the damage worth the effort?


  2. #2
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    I don't know much about tactics like this but I imagine it is an original tactic devised by Hara with some basis in the real world. The fact that Rindou shares a character with Rinko kinda lends some proof for my point.

    The tactic in and of itself doesn't seem realistic to me though. Getting a headstart and having some distance would be beneficial to a cavalry charge but cavalry charges don't work the same way as a flail on a chain. I may be wrong though.

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  3. #3
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    I don't know much about tactics like this but I imagine it is an original tactic devised by Hara with some basis in the real world. The fact that Rindou shares a character with Rinko kinda lends some proof for my point.

    The tactic in and of itself doesn't seem realistic to me though. Getting a headstart and having some distance would be beneficial to a cavalry charge but cavalry charges don't work the same way as a flail on a chain. I may be wrong though.
    Aye aye, it is definitely invented by Hara, I wasn't implying it was a real-warfare tactic. I just wondered about how much can it be realistically possible to do it and eventually if it's that dangerous.

    I'm not sure I got your opinion. Do you think real cavalry charges are not as powerful as shown in the manga?


  4. #4
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    I'm not sure I got your opinion. Do you think real cavalry charges are not as powerful as shown in the manga?
    My opinion is that I think the Rindou doesn't necessarily strengthen a cavalry charge like that in real life. You swing a flail and it'll get stronger because of the force of spinning and increasing speed (physics in not my strong point) but I'm sure you can't really replicate that irl with horses and men riding in a circle. And yes, real life cavalry charges aren't as powerful because Rinko is near superhuman himself.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    My opinion is that I think the Rindou doesn't necessarily strengthen a cavalry charge like that in real life. You swing a flail and it'll get stronger because of the force of spinning and increasing speed (physics in not my strong point) but I'm sure you can't really replicate that irl with horses and men riding in a circle. And yes, real life cavalry charges aren't as powerful because Rinko is near superhuman himself.
    The wedge seems stronger than it actually is, because the Rindou weaken the centre of the enemy army before striking it. But still, I think that a cavalry unit must be compact to be truly devastating, and I dunno how compact can that wedge be, since it's made by tho wings uniting in the middle of a charge.
    As for the charges in general, well, I think they are actually more powerful than one would expect, so probably about the manga level. But again, there's an unrealistic point and that is the presumed invulnerability of the vanguard (Rinko, Duke Hyou, Shin... they all seem invincible when they're leading a charge).


  6. #6
    Without reading the OP post yes it's real. I talked with some ancient history buffs and they told me that while Hara frequently misunderstands what the techniques are for, all of them existed at some point in history. I just forgot the english term for rindou.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirito View Post
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    Without reading the OP post yes it's real. I talked with some ancient history buffs and they told me that while Hara frequently misunderstands what the techniques are for, all of them existed at some point in history. I just forgot the english term for rindou.
    This surprises me if I think of the Ryuudou, or the Gouriki...!


  8. #8
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    This surprises me if I think of the Ryuudou, or the Gouriki...!
    What was this again?

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  9. #9
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    What was this again?


  10. #10
    It seems to have a similar principle as the echelon (which is a real tactic) assault formation, as it pushes the enemy back diagonally except it's done in two directions. I can only see it being effective on defensive enemies as a means of breaking through or opening up a wall formation. It seems effective and potentially even be used as a distraction.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashah View Post
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    It seems to have a similar principle as the echelon (which is a real tactic) assault formation, as it pushes the enemy back diagonally except it's done in two directions. I can only see it being effective on defensive enemies as a means of breaking through or opening up a wall formation. It seems effective and potentially even be used as a distraction.
    You think the Rindou can also make the centre more vulnerable in its first phase? In the manga, the thing it's done because of a mechanic principle and also because commanders are inclined to fortify the lines right in front of the two wheels.


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    You think the Rindou can also make the centre more vulnerable in its first phase? In the manga, the thing it's done because of a mechanic principle and also because commanders are inclined to fortify the lines right in front of the two wheels.
    Potentially. As long as the momentum is maintained. The scary thing is, as a defender it's not just the initially enemy you have to defend against but the proceeding ones.

  13. #13
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    Reread the arc today, one of the most dangerous things I find about it is it forces the enemy troops to split in reaction to the turning motion of the Rindou. Rinko then takes advantage of the gap created. I don't know if that's a realistic response to the Rindou though.

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  14. #14
    I used it just the other day to cut to the front of the line at my local supermarket.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    I used it just the other day to cut to the front of the line at my local supermarket.
    I'd like to see it


  16. #16
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    good bump


  17. #17
    I've learned that mongols used a "ring" formation just like the rindou for sport hunting. They gathered the animals in the centre then start to ride around them and shooting.

    Dont know if they actually used circles in battle, more like lines in movement if I remember well.

    btw read Conqueror series by Conn Iggulden

  18. #18
    well, well, if it's not the legendary ancient tactic known to rape millions of lives...

    Just kidding, it might be real but it's not 100% practical at all. My issue is with the actual circular motion generated by the cavalry; it requires an imaginable level of coordination and agility, even more, for simultaneously throwing arrows while they're at it, a top-tier of proficiency in archery and horsemanship is absolutely mandatory. Needless to mention, they should also react in coordination to any potential counter from the enemy.

    Hard to think the enemy would even give them the luxury to initiate the move right in front of them, and to initiate it fare enough and move in circles is a pain on its own.


    Hara comes up with a more realistic tactic than the Europeans, basically.
    Last edited by DreX; 07-07-2018 at 08:32 AM.


  19. #19
    Of course it isn't real nor realistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold View Post
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    Without reading the OP post yes it's real. I talked with some ancient history buffs and they told me that while Hara frequently misunderstands what the techniques are for, all of them existed at some point in history. I just forgot the english term for rindou.
    Haha, yeah right. Some history buffs they were if they think all the tactics in Kingdom existed at some point.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    well, well, if it's not the legendary ancient tactic known to rape millions of lives...

    Just kidding, it might be real but it's not 100% practical at all. The issue is with the circular motion generated by the cavalry; it requires an imaginable level of coordination and agility, even more, for simultaneously throwing arrows while they're at it, a top-tier proficiency in archery and horsemanship is needed. Needless to mention, they should also react in coordination to any potential counter from the enemy.

    Hard to think the enemy would even give them the luxury to initiate the move right in front of them, and to initiate it fare enough and move in circles is a pain on its own.


    Hara comes up with a more realistic tactic than the Europeans, basically.
    Basically: any mongol teenager of that era

    Well, obviously the speed in which is performed in the manga is an exaggeration

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