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  1. #81
    Omega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Listen, buddy View Post
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    Are you starting soon?

    I may finish my red cliff analysis later today.

    But starting on the tv show the Adviser Alliance. One of the smartest written chinese show in recent years. I feel it borrow so much from ravages of time. Especially the bitter rivalry between Sima Yi and Yang Xiu. To Shan Wuling killing someone to save Sima Yi. The pacing is great, the cinematography is very good also.

    It also told from the perspective of Sima Yi. And highlighted stuffs, like Cao Cao burning the list of insiders that plan to betray him to Yuan Shao. Or even Xun Yu going back and forth between being a Han loyalist to a Cao loyalist.
    I just started Kingdom. I might start Ravages of time too, I just don't want then to get mixed with each other.

    Although he's dead, his body doesn't collapse! And the way he mowed down enemies with wounds all over his body...was certainly monstrous! The number of sword wounds he received is indeed two hundred sixty-seven! The number of gun wounds: a hundred and fifty-two! And he was shot by cannons forty-six times! Yet, on his proud back...or in his whole pirate life, there is no scar he got while running away!

  2. #82
    火鳳燎原 Saki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Listen, buddy View Post
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    @Void, Sima Yi should have less screen time than Zhao Yun. Zhao Yun is active early on during the three kingdoms. Where as early on in Wei camp, Cao Cao have multiple advisors and Sima Yi didn't contribute as much as others. After Red Cliff, Sima Yi is more involved especially in the Cao Pi and Cao Zhi conflict. Pretty much after Xun Yu die and Jia Xu getting too old (he is way way older than the other 7), Sima Yi becoming the main strategist for Wei. And continue to be so afterward long after Zhao Yun die. And I think that is why the author choose Sima Yi as a view point character because early on his contribution is not as defined as others, hence the author can be more creative.

    @Saki, I probably not gonna finish this post in this sitting, but first we have to summarize the events. Then from there, I will you my disagreement. Since this series can be extremely confusing.

    Initial Stage
    -Guo Jia died. But he installed spies and traitors in Jingzhou (including the Cai clan), and have Zhuge Liang continuous monitored.
    -Zhuge Liang send Xu Shu to aid Liu Bei in the conflict with Cai Mao. Cai Mao lost influences.
    -Pang Tong was send to persuades Gan Ning. Which led Wu to defeat Huang Zu (main Liu Qi's supporter). Liu Qi was send to be the military commander of Xiakou (who is now the main ally of Liu Bei).
    -Guo Jia's plan of using the flood to entered Jingzhou. The force led by Xiahou Dun and Jia Xu.
    -Zhuge Liang/Xu Shu also figure out the funding was from Sima Yi. And confront Zhao Yun about possible future murder.
    -Zhuge Liang joined Liu Bei and prepare Liu Bei's forces for the incoming invasion. *Liao Hua killed all of the assassins send by Guo Jia. Also Hua Tuo get kidnapped by Zhuge Liang at some point here*
    -Both Wu and Liu Beiís forces were well prepare for the coming invasion. Zhou Yu stalled Jia Xu in the river. While Xu Shu/Liao Hua stalled Wei forces on land using Zhang Feiís maps. However, since Xiahou Dun already get to Jingzhou, he basically took over with Kuai and Cai clans support (Liu Biao died).
    -Liu Bei began his retreat and takes in the civilians (with Zhuge Liang and Zhang Feiís approval). They did the same thing at Jingzhou. However, at Jingzhou, the Caoís forces spies and assassins mix in with the crowd.
    -Liu Da and his assassins tried to recruit Zhao Yun to assassinate Liu Bei, Zhuge Liang, Liu Beiís wives, and kid. Zhao Yun was indecisive but ultimately loyal to Liu Bei. Zhao Yun cuts tie with Sima Yi.
    -Zhuge Liang met up with Zhou Yu delivers the citizens to Wu. Wu retreated from Jingzhou waters letting Cao Pi taking control of the waterway supply route. Cao Pi also hint this is a favor from Sima Yi.
    -Zhang Fei blocked Caoís force at Chang Bang bridge, allowing Zhao Yun to escape. Using fire and ambush, Zhang Fei stalled Cao forces for 2 days and let Liu Bei forces successfully withdraw back to Xiakou.
    -Sima Yi kidnapped Xu Shuís mother. Xu Shu leaved Liuís camp for Cao, suggesting some sort of alliance-ish between Sima Yi and Zhuge Liang. While Zhuge Liang in Wu, Lu Su is send over to try to enforce what Wu/Zhou Yuís plan for Liu Bei forces.

    1) Is Zhuge Liang and Zhang Fei that smart? Knowing let the infiltrators into the crowd and letting Zhao Yun have free range. That almost cost Liu Bei an heir. Not to mentioned, it could have fuck them up majorly for other reason. Was they certain zhao Yun will not betray them? Zhao Yun certainly didnít know it and need some convincing himself. Zhang Fei was also uncertain because when he headed to Changbang, he was entertain the possibility that Zhao Yun betrayed them.
    2) And all of that for what reward? To give Wu, all of those citizens??? How is that benefits Liu Bei forces in anyway. I guess, the only thing was Zhou Yu enable them a better chance of retreat. And allow Zhuge Liang to go to Wu to cement the alliance. But Wu would want Liu Bei as an ally either way in their own interest. Such risks do not equate to the rewards.
    3) Is Sima Yi working with Zhuge Liang in this stage? Certainly killing Liu Beiís wives and only heir is not helping Liu Bei in anyway shape or form. So why then, is the author imply some corporation. Especially Zhuge Liang delivers the refugees, Zhou Yu transport the refugees, and Sima Yi earned the credit for Wu withdrawal.
    Woa that's a lot o.o I'd have to reread the manhua (and red cliff arc) to answer all the points. I just faintly remember that one of the key points to Zhuge's success was the fact the "sleeping" dragon was never asleep. He has monitored that region for 11+ years and knows the weather in and out, including the unusual weather change every 11 years.

    1.) Liu Bei is a good judge of character in the manhua and it never failed him, so his underlings, Zhuge & Zhang must have kept it in mind. Although...I must admit, Zhang Fei has doubted the first brother a lot and finds him too naive.

    2.) This is a little blurry to me as I only read the manhua one time, but didn't Zhou Yu hold Zhuge Liang "hostage" and the citizens were practically a trade? If so, then Zhuge is worth more than 100.000 citizens

    Would have to brush up on the manhua to actually engage in an intelligent discussion. I plan on rereading it, I promise!

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Tigerclaw View Post
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    There's a manga about the Three Kingdoms? That's interesting. How do you guys rate it so far?
    I read One piece and it was among my top 3, read Kingdom after it and it pushed down One piece, then I read The Ravages of Time and it did to Kingdom what Kingdom did to One piece. But currently, I prefer Kingdom's latest arc to the not-so-good RoT one.

    RoT is a very intelligent manga, you can actually learn from it. The manhua emphasizes strategy. It's like a brilliant chess game of intended baiting, intentionally falling for the bait while preparing an ambush, falling for the ambush while having it as a part of the strategy, a counter ambush to get out of it and turn the tide with something the opposite side wouldn't possibly have accounted for (such as a decade of preparation for a potential something)...inbetween that, throw the weather, supplies, potential supplies, reinforcements and treason in the mix!

    It gets a solid 9/10 from me and I'm not well versed in RotTK.

    p.s the only downside to your reading experience might be a drop in scan quality here and there, but most of them have been patched up.

  3. #83
    Omega's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback

    Although he's dead, his body doesn't collapse! And the way he mowed down enemies with wounds all over his body...was certainly monstrous! The number of sword wounds he received is indeed two hundred sixty-seven! The number of gun wounds: a hundred and fifty-two! And he was shot by cannons forty-six times! Yet, on his proud back...or in his whole pirate life, there is no scar he got while running away!

  4. #84
    火鳳燎原 Saki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Listen, buddy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    @Void, Sima Yi should have less screen time than Zhao Yun. Zhao Yun is active early on during the three kingdoms. Where as early on in Wei camp, Cao Cao have multiple advisors and Sima Yi didn't contribute as much as others. After Red Cliff, Sima Yi is more involved especially in the Cao Pi and Cao Zhi conflict. Pretty much after Xun Yu die and Jia Xu getting too old (he is way way older than the other 7), Sima Yi becoming the main strategist for Wei. And continue to be so afterward long after Zhao Yun die. And I think that is why the author choose Sima Yi as a view point character because early on his contribution is not as defined as others, hence the author can be more creative.

    @Saki, I probably not gonna finish this post in this sitting, but first we have to summarize the events. Then from there, I will you my disagreement. Since this series can be extremely confusing.

    Initial Stage
    -Guo Jia died. But he installed spies and traitors in Jingzhou (including the Cai clan), and have Zhuge Liang continuous monitored.
    -Zhuge Liang send Xu Shu to aid Liu Bei in the conflict with Cai Mao. Cai Mao lost influences.
    -Pang Tong was send to persuades Gan Ning. Which led Wu to defeat Huang Zu (main Liu Qi's supporter). Liu Qi was send to be the military commander of Xiakou (who is now the main ally of Liu Bei).
    -Guo Jia's plan of using the flood to entered Jingzhou. The force led by Xiahou Dun and Jia Xu.
    -Zhuge Liang/Xu Shu also figure out the funding was from Sima Yi. And confront Zhao Yun about possible future murder.
    -Zhuge Liang joined Liu Bei and prepare Liu Bei's forces for the incoming invasion. *Liao Hua killed all of the assassins send by Guo Jia. Also Hua Tuo get kidnapped by Zhuge Liang at some point here*
    -Both Wu and Liu Bei’s forces were well prepare for the coming invasion. Zhou Yu stalled Jia Xu in the river. While Xu Shu/Liao Hua stalled Wei forces on land using Zhang Fei’s maps. However, since Xiahou Dun already get to Jingzhou, he basically took over with Kuai and Cai clans support (Liu Biao died).
    -Liu Bei began his retreat and takes in the civilians (with Zhuge Liang and Zhang Fei’s approval). They did the same thing at Jingzhou. However, at Jingzhou, the Cao’s forces spies and assassins mix in with the crowd.
    -Liu Da and his assassins tried to recruit Zhao Yun to assassinate Liu Bei, Zhuge Liang, Liu Bei’s wives, and kid. Zhao Yun was indecisive but ultimately loyal to Liu Bei. Zhao Yun cuts tie with Sima Yi.
    -Zhuge Liang met up with Zhou Yu delivers the citizens to Wu. Wu retreated from Jingzhou waters letting Cao Pi taking control of the waterway supply route. Cao Pi also hint this is a favor from Sima Yi.
    -Zhang Fei blocked Cao’s force at Chang Bang bridge, allowing Zhao Yun to escape. Using fire and ambush, Zhang Fei stalled Cao forces for 2 days and let Liu Bei forces successfully withdraw back to Xiakou.
    -Sima Yi kidnapped Xu Shu’s mother. Xu Shu leaved Liu’s camp for Cao, suggesting some sort of alliance-ish between Sima Yi and Zhuge Liang. While Zhuge Liang in Wu, Lu Su is send over to try to enforce what Wu/Zhou Yu’s plan for Liu Bei forces.

    1) Is Zhuge Liang and Zhang Fei that smart? Knowing let the infiltrators into the crowd and letting Zhao Yun have free range. That almost cost Liu Bei an heir. Not to mentioned, it could have fuck them up majorly for other reason. Was they certain zhao Yun will not betray them? Zhao Yun certainly didn’t know it and need some convincing himself. Zhang Fei was also uncertain because when he headed to Changbang, he was entertain the possibility that Zhao Yun betrayed them.
    2) And all of that for what reward? To give Wu, all of those citizens??? How is that benefits Liu Bei forces in anyway. I guess, the only thing was Zhou Yu enable them a better chance of retreat. And allow Zhuge Liang to go to Wu to cement the alliance. But Wu would want Liu Bei as an ally either way in their own interest. Such risks do not equate to the rewards.
    3) Is Sima Yi working with Zhuge Liang in this stage? Certainly killing Liu Bei’s wives and only heir is not helping Liu Bei in anyway shape or form. So why then, is the author imply some corporation. Especially Zhuge Liang delivers the refugees, Zhou Yu transport the refugees, and Sima Yi earned the credit for Wu withdrawal.
    Woa that's a lot o.o I'd have to reread the manhua (and red cliff arc) to answer all the points. I just faintly remember that one of the key points to Zhuge's success was the fact the "sleeping" dragon was never asleep. He has monitored that region for 11+ years and knows the weather in and out, including the unusual weather change every 11 years.

    1.) Liu Bei is a good judge of character in the manhua and it never failed him, so his underlings, Zhuge & Zhang must have kept it in mind. Although...I must admit, Zhang Fei has doubted the first brother a lot and finds him too naive.

    2.) This is a little blurry to me as I only read the manhua one time, but didn't Zhou Yu hold Zhuge Liang "hostage" and the citizens were practically a trade? If so, then Zhuge is worth more than 100.000 citizens

    Would have to brush up on the manhua to actually engage in an intelligent discussion. I plan on rereading it, I promise!

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Tigerclaw View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's a manga about the Three Kingdoms? That's interesting. How do you guys rate it so far?
    I read One piece and it was among my top 3, read Kingdom after it and it pushed down One piece, then I read The Ravages of Time and it did to Kingdom what Kingdom did to One piece. But currently, I prefer Kingdom's latest arc to the not-so-good RoT one.

    RoT is a very intelligent manga, you can actually learn from it. The manhua emphasizes strategy. It's like a brilliant chess game of intended baiting, intentionally falling for the bait while preparing an ambush, falling for the ambush while having it as a part of the strategy, a counter ambush to get out of it and turn the tide with something the opposite side wouldn't possibly have accounted for (such as a decade of preparation for a potential something)...inbetween that, throw the weather, supplies, potential supplies, reinforcements and treason in the mix!

    It gets a solid 9/10 from me and I'm not well versed in RotTK.

    p.s the only downside to your reading experience might be a drop in scan quality here and there, but most of them have been patched up.

    p.p.s I went to grab a few pages that I remember to be impressive back at the earlier arcs:






    Old man Chen Gong
    Last edited by Saki; 08-16-2017 at 09:13 PM.

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