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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I don't see any reason why differences have to be super small. I would expect G2 Luffy to have clearly superior combat speed to most if not all Supernovas or Zoro but they can still have high/extreme diff fights with one another because they have strengths in other areas. There is no reason why speed should become an essentially nonexistent factor in battles when other stats don't.

    Combat speed is attack + reaction speed. WB has great reflexes but doesn't focus on fast attacks like Kizaru to do, or expectedly being extremely fast in CQC like Garp.
    okay, i view combat speed being most dependant on reaction speed then, i.e if you give arlong kizarus df he would still be inferior to sai in combat speed because of the difference in reflexes/skill.

    As i said, aside from absolutely terrible matchups, unless your combat speed is at least relatively close to that of your opponent you wont win the fight, which is why i regard it as the pre-requisite attribute

    In the case of luffy vs sn g2 attacks might be faster than those of others but id attribute their ability to keep up with similar combat(reactive) speed. Such fights imo are determined by the differences in power, raw strength and haki mastery with the winners edging out the losers.

  2. #42
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    You can't just take the ability to "keep up" to mean identical combat speed. Why would speed be a non-stat at higher levels? There is literally no good reason for it. Some people can attack, move and maneuver faster than others. They have higher speed. They have an easier time landing attacks and others will be more pressured to consistently react to them. G2 Luffy is a prime example. By your logic either Luffy is inherently much slower than all other people on his tier and needs G2 to get on their level, or G2 has no effect on his speed stat despite being a speed-focused power-up. I'm sure you can see how that makes no sense.

    As defined by Dayum in the opening post a difference of 0.5 is one that will only become noticeable after extended fighting. G2's speed would be more noticeable than that in nearly every case so it obviously needs to have an edge of 1 or more unless the opponent also has a lean towrad speed/reactions.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    You can't just take the ability to "keep up" to mean identical combat speed. Why would speed be a non-stat at higher levels? There is literally no good reason for it. Some people can attack, move and maneuver faster than others. They have higher speed. They have an easier time landing attacks and others will be more pressured to consistently react to them. G2 Luffy is a prime example. By your logic either Luffy is inherently much slower than all other people on his tier and needs G2 to get on their level, or G2 has no effect on his speed stat despite being a speed-focused power-up. I'm sure you can see how that makes no sense.

    As defined by Dayum in the opening post a difference of 0.5 is one that will only become noticeable after extended fighting. G2's speed would be more noticeable than that in nearly every case so it obviously needs to have an edge of 1 or more unless the opponent also has a lean towrad speed/reactions.
    No id argue that other physical fighting sn like drake/zoro/hawkins have similar base stats but like luffy get boosted when using their df. Law/Kid/Apoos "combat speed" is more associated with the use of their df so their base stats dont get the same boost.

    To law it out

    Base Stats of Physically fighting SN=DF Reliant SN
    When at full power, the base stats of physical sn are boosted whereas those of df reliant sn- kid/law/apoo remain the same and their df lethality gets a boost, accounting for the luffy dilemma you brought up

  4. #44
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    That makes no sense whatsoever. How do Zoro or Hawkins get a speed boost? Their power-ups have nothing to do with speed, Zoro doesn't even have a DF =/ Drake's Zoan fruit should have more to do with power than speed and at any rate G2 was a bigger boost to speed than even a Leopard Zoan, so it makes no sense for it to go Drake=Luffy in base speed and Zoan Drake=G2 Luffy in speed. Other SNs like Law or Apoo have nothing to do with speed either besides Law's teleportation.

    It's like you're using combat speed as a universal stat that includes everything anyone does in a fight or something. That doesn't make any sense, it's just one base stat out of many. For example G2 Luffy may beat Zoan Drake in combat speed but Zoan Drake wins over Luffy in lethality & strength. Thus it evens out overall but Luffy's combat speed is indubitably superior. Law's hax is far beyond Luffy's but Luffy counters it with higher speed to evade the hax and land blows.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    That makes no sense whatsoever. How do Zoro or Hawkins get a speed boost? Their power-ups have nothing to do with speed, Zoro doesn't even have a DF =/ Drake's Zoan fruit should have more to do with power than speed and at any rate G2 was a bigger boost to speed than even a Leopard Zoan, so it makes no sense for it to go Drake=Luffy in base speed and Zoan Drake=G2 Luffy in speed. Other SNs like Law or Apoo have nothing to do with speed either besides Law's teleportation.

    It's like you're using combat speed as a universal stat that includes everything anyone does in a fight or something. That doesn't make any sense, it's just one base stat out of many. For example G2 Luffy may beat Zoan Drake in combat speed but Zoan Drake wins over Luffy in lethality & strength. Thus it evens out overall but Luffy's combat speed is indubitably superior. Law's hax is far beyond Luffy's but Luffy counters it with higher speed to evade the hax and land blows.
    Im referring to combat speed. I fully accept that movement speed varies between them as it does amongst all tiers of fighters, because strength isnt as dependannt on your movement speed as it is combat speed

    But it doesnt "even out" like that unless theres a very small difference. You can be 10 times as physically strong as your opponent but if you cant respond to or land your attacks then it wont contribute to much. Combat speed is THE most important thing to strength and with the exception of haki is the only attribute without which at high levels you cannot be top notch. Whereas to be the strongest you dont HAVE to be top class in speed/physical strength/durability/endurance etc
    Last edited by ReXDrake; 11-23-2014 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #46
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    No you're clearly not. Combat speed as defined in the OP includes attack speed and ability to react to attacks. G2 makes Luffy's attack speed much, much faster. It also speeds up his reactions. Why would people like Zoro or Hawkins get any boosts to these areas by using their power-ups? Ashura has absolutely nothing to do with speed and we certainly don't have any reason to believe that Hawkins' scarecrow form does let alone nearly as much as G2. These suggestions are complete nonsense. Drake has a Zoan fruit but it was already displayed in Luffy vs. Lucci that G2 Luffy > Zoan Lucci > base Lucci > base Luffy in combat speed. G2's boost is clearly bigger than that from a Zoan in terms of combat speed.

    Yes, yes it does. If Luffy can land 3 hits for every 1 hit Drake lands but Drake's hits do around 3x more damage - then they even out. It's really not a complicated concept. Luffy's attacks move faster than Law's and he can react to attacks more quickly than Law in G2. His combat speed is higher. Law's ability to finish Luffy with a single attack, disorient and debilitate him, as well as manipulate and freely control the battlefield are all factors that make up for his lower combat speed.

    Stop using combat speed as some kind of all-inclusive stat. That makes no sense. It's just one stat out of many. Luffy's primary power-up pertains specifically to speed so why would people whose power-ups revolve around entirely different attributes and abilities randomly get the same speed boost? Rather than the logical effect of Luffy having higher speed than them while they make up for it with strengths in other areas?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    No you're clearly not. Combat speed as defined in the OP includes attack speed and ability to react to attacks. G2 makes Luffy's attack speed much, much faster. It also speeds up his reactions. Why would people like Zoro or Hawkins get any boosts to these areas by using their power-ups? Ashura has absolutely nothing to do with speed and we certainly don't have any reason to believe that Hawkins' scarecrow form does let alone nearly as much as G2. These suggestions are complete nonsense. Drake has a Zoan fruit but it was already displayed in Luffy vs. Lucci that G2 Luffy > Zoan Lucci > base Lucci > base Luffy in combat speed. G2's boost is clearly bigger than that from a Zoan in terms of combat speed.

    Yes, yes it does. If Luffy can land 3 hits for every 1 hit Drake lands but Drake's hits do around 3x more damage - then they even out. It's really not a complicated concept. Luffy's attacks move faster than Law's and he can react to attacks more quickly than Law in G2. His combat speed is higher. Law's ability to finish Luffy with a single attack, disorient and debilitate him, as well as manipulate and freely control the battlefield are all factors that make up for his lower combat speed.

    Stop using combat speed as some kind of all-inclusive stat. That makes no sense. It's just one stat out of many. Luffy's primary power-up pertains specifically to speed so why would people whose power-ups revolve around entirely different attributes and abilities randomly get the same speed boost? Rather than the logical effect of Luffy having higher speed than them while they make up for it with strengths in other areas?
    but that doesnt represent a major difference in combat speed does it.

  8. #48
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    I don't know what you mean by major and I'm not here to banter about semantics. Read the OP. A 0.5 point difference represents one that would only become apparent after an extended period of fighting. G2 is clearly much more than that. So it should give Luffy at least 1 point over people on his general tier unless they too have specific speed-focused power-ups. That's really all that's necessary to say.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I don't know what you mean by major and I'm not here to banter about semantics. Read the OP. A 0.5 point difference represents one that would only become apparent after an extended period of fighting. G2 is clearly much more than that. So it should give Luffy at least 1 point over people on his general tier unless they too have specific speed-focused power-ups. That's really all that's necessary to say.
    In your analogy, 3 for 1 still represents a small gap in terms of combat speed- they are close unlike what you were saying

    Im getting tired of this shit, stop appealing to semantics to avoid my points
    Last edited by ReXDrake; 11-23-2014 at 04:43 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Riki View Post
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    on brief skim -

    is Rayleigh's 3 in Special solely because of his Haki? why do Mihawk and Garp have 1 in Special?

    - - - Updated - - -

    the lowest value for Defense was 3

    you might need to make your scale more strict for that stat

    - - - Updated - - -

    actually same thing for most of the stats
    Top tiers were really for fun. Not much thought put into most. Do believe Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, and possibly Dragon are the Haki masters of the series. Shanks cracked a ship with is presence alone. Unless Oda goes nowhere with that(which he may) I expect crazy stuff from him and similar from Rayleigh. I expect their CoO to actually be like Coby&Enel too. Rayleigh is also the last person we actually saw do the force push/shield Haki move that no one has done post skip. So he got a three because I think the extent of haki will be shown through them.

    Mihawk and Garp have shown nothing. Hardening and homing vision but I can't imagine what else. Both probably should be raised either way but to what extent I don't know. I also don't like assuming every top tier(or Doffy level people) have Sandersonia&Enel level CoO.

    Few stats lower than three because I don't think any of our known Top Tiers are Average. They are the strongest people in the world. Any stats below three will come from future 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Yonkou mates, weaker SN when/if they break into top tier, and maybe EoS Coby and Franky. If Three Eyes is a top tier version of Sugar/Perona her too instead of up there with other first mates.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    My idea of some top-tiers. "Special" pretty much includes lethality/debilitation here because I couldn't think of a better way to distinguish between DC and damage-dealing capabilities. I'm also not sure if Marco's regeneration should fit under defense or toughness but for me toughness is more like the Luffy esque capability to keep coming whereas defense should be the ability to shrug off hits that connect whether it's done by regen or just high durability.


    Aokiji
    Strength: 3
    Power: 3
    Defense: 3.5
    Combat speed: 3.5
    Toughness: 4
    Mobility: 3
    Grace: 3.5
    Adeptness: 3.5
    Special: 5
    Intellect: 3.5

    Kizaru
    Strength: 3.5
    Power: 4
    Defense: 3.5
    Combat speed: 4
    Toughness: 3
    Mobility: 3.5
    Grace: 3.5
    Adeptness: 4
    Special: 3
    Intellect: 2.5

    Akainu
    Strength: 4
    Power: 3.5
    Defense: 4
    Combat speed: 3.5
    Toughness: 4.5
    Mobility: 2.5
    Grace: 3
    Adeptness: 3.5
    Special: 4
    Intellect: 3.5

    Marco
    Strength: 3
    Power: 2.5
    Defense: 5
    Combat speed: 3.5
    Toughness: 3
    Mobility: 4
    Grace: 3.5
    Adeptness: 3.5
    Special: 2
    Intellect: 3

    Jozu
    Strength: 4
    Power: 2.5
    Defense: 4.5
    Combat speed: 3
    Toughness: 3
    Mobility: 1.5
    Grace: 2.5
    Adeptness: 3.5
    Special: 0
    Intellect: 3

    Sabo
    Strength: 2.5
    Power: 3
    Defense: 2.5
    Combat speed: 3.5
    Toughness: 3.5
    Mobility: 3
    Grace: 4
    Adeptness: 4
    Special: 2
    Intellect: 3.5

    Whitebeard (prime stats in parenthesis)
    Strength: 4.5 (5)
    Power: 5
    Defense: 3.5
    Combat speed: 3.5 (4)
    Toughness: 5
    Mobility: 2.5 (3)
    Grace: 3 (3.5)
    Adeptness: 3.5
    Special: 1 (2 - point removed for sickness)
    Intellect: 3.5

    Garp
    Strength: 4.5 (5)
    Power: 3.5 (4)
    Defense: 4
    Combat speed: 4 (4.5)
    Toughness: 4.5
    Mobility: 3.5
    Grace: 3.5
    Adeptness: 4.5
    Special: 1
    Intellect: 2.5

    Rayleigh
    Strength: 3 (4)
    Power: 3 (4)
    Defense: 3 (3.5)
    Combat speed: 4 (4.5)
    Toughness: 4.5
    Mobility: 3
    Grace: 4.5
    Adeptness: 4.5
    Special: 3
    Intellect: 4
    Marco's regeneration is definitely Defense. It completely cancels out any damage he receives in Pheonix form. His toughness would be his ability to keep moving despite taking Kizaru's lasers after being shackled and and taking Garp's punch.

    I actually agree with Rex. When has Kizaru shown intense Combat speed in close quarters. He actually fights a bit like Enel or Kuma. Fastest he's ever moved consecutively was swordfighing Rayleigh. He is extremely mobile but combat speed seems no better or worse than every other top tier.
    Last edited by Dayum; 02-03-2015 at 06:25 PM.

  11. #51
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    I give Kizaru points for the speed of his lasers and his kicks. His trademark one-liner is not for nothing. Any OP fan of the street would tell you Kizaru is the fast Admiral. Your OP says it includes attack speed. If Kizaru's reactions are on par with his fellow Admirals then the speed of his attacks definitely pushes him a cut above them. It's not just lightspeed movement.

    In your analogy, 3 for 1 still represents a small gap in terms of combat speed- they are close unlike what you were saying

    Im getting tired of this shit, stop appealing to semantics to avoid my points
    It's just an analogy. An illustrative example. Jesus. I have no idea how many hits Luffy would land for every one of Drake's but I can tell you logic dictates Luffy being superior to Drake in combat speed since he has a power-up specifically about speed and the latter does not. And I have been trying to.

    G2 Luffy should have a clear significant gap over say Zoro in combat speed. That is not only logical it is an absolute necessity. If they are on par in speed then Zoro being far more lethal is going to result in him beating Luffy. It's the natural balance of things: the more lethal attacks a person has the worse they have to be at landing them. It sounds crass when put like that but it's how things work in practice. Garp is not as lethal as Akainu but you can be sure he'll land his punches easier: i.e. higher CS. Aokiji is the most lethal of the Admirals so if his attack speed was as high as Kizaru's he'd break the balance. That does not mean his reactions i.e. his ability to handle fast enemy attacks are any worse.

    What on earth set you off here? The one with the semantics problem seems to be you.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I give Kizaru points for the speed of his lasers and his kicks. His trademark one-liner is not for nothing. Any OP fan of the street would tell you Kizaru is the fast Admiral. Your OP says it includes attack speed. If Kizaru's reactions are on par with his fellow Admirals then the speed of his attacks definitely pushes him a cut above them. It's not just lightspeed movement.



    It's just an analogy. An illustrative example. Jesus. I have no idea how many hits Luffy would land for every one of Drake's but I can tell you logic dictates Luffy being superior to Drake in combat speed since he has a power-up specifically about speed and the latter does not. And I have been trying to.

    G2 Luffy should have a clear significant gap over say Zoro in combat speed. That is not only logical it is an absolute necessity. If they are on par in speed then Zoro being far more lethal is going to result in him beating Luffy. It's the natural balance of things: the more lethal attacks a person has the worse they have to be at landing them. It sounds crass when put like that but it's how things work in practice. Garp is not as lethal as Akainu but you can be sure he'll land his punches easier: i.e. higher CS. Aokiji is the most lethal of the Admirals so if his attack speed was as high as Kizaru's he'd break the balance. That does not mean his reactions i.e. his ability to handle fast enemy attacks are any worse.

    What on earth set you off here? The one with the semantics problem seems to be you.
    no, youre confusing combat speed with movement speed. They can respond to other at virtually the same pace, but luffys quicker zipping speeds accounts for zoros lethality. I dont think youd argue that luffy is going to land more hits in against zoro

    Aokiji exceeds akainu in the speed department, but is inferior in lethality, damage etc- so their combat speed can realistically remain the same while its other factors that even them out

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I give Kizaru points for the speed of his lasers and his kicks. His trademark one-liner is not for nothing. Any OP fan of the street would tell you Kizaru is the fast Admiral. Your OP says it includes attack speed. If Kizaru's reactions are on par with his fellow Admirals then the speed of his attacks definitely pushes him a cut above them. It's not just lightspeed movement.
    What you're doing is more like scaling his speed to the speed of his projectiles. Kizaru's lasers have a charge time, he has to get into position for his kicks, charges his big laser, and has to set-up his teleportation move. How is that any different than saying Enel&Kuma have high combat speed because their paw blasts and lighting are very fast. Everything Kizaru does, besides his two finger laser arrow he used on Hawkins and moving lightspeed short distances, has a small window before they actually go off.
    Last edited by Dayum; 11-24-2014 at 08:04 PM.

  14. #54
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    Well what do you call projectile/attack speed then? It obviously doesn't fit under movement. Sure he doesn't execute his initial attacks faster than other people but once he has executed them, they move faster, so all else equal he is faster in attack speed. If Aokiji and Kizaru kicked each other they would launch each of their kicks at the same time but Kizaru's kick would land before Aokiji's could. That's a clear case of higher effective combat speed to me. Doesn't really fit a turn-based RPG definition but it would fit within the realm of actual fighting.

    no, youre confusing combat speed with movement speed. They can respond to other at virtually the same pace, but luffys quicker zipping speeds accounts for zoros lethality.
    No man. YOU'RE confusing combat speed with movement speed. Take a step back, look at what G2 does. It doesn't only boost his movement speed. It never has. It gives a HUGE boost to ATTACK speed - you know why the sonic boom effect accompanies all his punches right? How can he go from having equal combat speed to Zoro without it to still having equal combat speed with it? How does that make any kind of sense to you? And that's not enough. It also boosts his REACTIONS. Which is a part of combat speed. So that's TWO areas of combat speed he gets a power up in and Zoro has none. How can now their combat speeds be equal if they were equal before?

    You can not have A=1 and B=1, then add 2 to A and none to B and suddenly get A=3 and B=3.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    Well what do you call projectile/attack speed then? It obviously doesn't fit under movement. Sure he doesn't execute his initial attacks faster than other people but once he has executed them, they move faster, so all else equal he is faster in attack speed. If Aokiji and Kizaru kicked each other they would launch each of their kicks at the same time but Kizaru's kick would land before Aokiji's could. That's a clear case of higher effective combat speed to me. Doesn't really fit a turn-based RPG definition but it would fit within the realm of actual fighting.



    No man. YOU'RE confusing combat speed with movement speed. Take a step back, look at what G2 does. It doesn't only boost his movement speed. It never has. It gives a HUGE boost to ATTACK speed - you know why the sonic boom effect accompanies all his punches right? How can he go from having equal combat speed to Zoro without it to still having equal combat speed with it? How does that make any kind of sense to you? And that's not enough. It also boosts his REACTIONS. Which is a part of combat speed. So that's TWO areas of combat speed he gets a power up in and Zoro has none. How can now their combat speeds be equal if they were equal before?

    You can not have A=1 and B=1, then add 2 to A and none to B and suddenly get A=3 and B=3.
    Jesus
    My point is that people with negligible differences in strength can RESPOND to each other at virtually the same rate

    Zoro beats base Luffy because he simply overwhelms him in other stats. Utilizing G2/G3 levels the playing field. I don't see any inconsistencies with combat speed remaining the same

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    Well what do you call projectile/attack speed then? It obviously doesn't fit under movement. Sure he doesn't execute his initial attacks faster than other people but once he has executed them, they move faster, so all else equal he is faster in attack speed. If Aokiji and Kizaru kicked each other they would launch each of their kicks at the same time but Kizaru's kick would land before Aokiji's could. That's a clear case of higher effective combat speed to me. Doesn't really fit a turn-based RPG definition but it would fit within the realm of actual fighting.
    I was never going to rate that. How could we? All we know is Light/>Paws>Lightning>Everything else. We can't rate how fast Franky's bullets are compared to Gladius, how much faster are Doffy, the speed of Hiken, the speed of a swordsmans flying slashes, etc.

    That is an extremely odd situation. In an actual fight Aokiji is going to take advantage of that small window before the kick actually happens. After the kick Kizaru's ability to follow up with another attack is no quicker than Aokiji's. I've never heard of rating projectile speed except in cases where we want to know how fast a projectile would have to move to do a particular feat like Boa turning canonballs to stone or Auger hitting those seagulls. What is faster a Jet Pistol or Luffy in G2 crossing the same tiny distance? All impossible questions to answer.

  17. #57
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    Why don't you include it in attack speed? Not the RPG definition but in a real fight of course it matters. If all else is equal it will be a factor. Kizaru's kick moving faster means it finishes faster. That in turn means he is ready to launch a next move quicker. Even if the wind-up time is the same he'll still be getting attacks out at a higher rate. His long-range moves will reach opponents faster than theirs can reach him. Luffy's attacks becoming much faster with G2 is a big part of that power-up. The sonic boom has nothing to do with how fast he launches the attack but how fast it actually moves.

    Zoro beats base Luffy because he simply overwhelms him in other stats. Utilizing G2/G3 levels the playing field. I don't see any inconsistencies with combat speed remaining the same
    This makes absolutely -zero- sense. Do you not understand that G2 boosts combat speed? How can combat speed be the same, then Luffy gets a power-up that boosts combat speed but it remains the same anyway? How can 1+1 still be 1?

    What Zoro has over base Luffy isn't combat speed. Zoro is better because he's extremely far more lethal and has much more destructive power. Zoro has no power-ups pertaining to speed of any kind. Luffy has one that literally increases the response rate of his bodily functions. G2 is not just a zipping around ability. Go back and re-read Enies Lobby if you've forgotten that. How in the name of hell can increasing his body's response rate to his intentions not make him faster than Zoro in terms of combat speed? He moves faster, attacks faster, reacts faster, everything becomes faster. This can not have negligible or minor impact on a good definition of a combat speed stat. That is absolutely impossible.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    Why don't you include it in attack speed? Not the RPG definition but in a real fight of course it matters. If all else is equal it will be a factor. Kizaru's kick moving faster means it finishes faster. That in turn means he is ready to launch a next move quicker. Even if the wind-up time is the same he'll still be getting attacks out at a higher rate. His long-range moves will reach opponents faster than theirs can reach him. Luffy's attacks becoming much faster with G2 is a big part of that power-up. The sonic boom has nothing to do with how fast he launches the attack but how fast it actually moves.



    This makes absolutely -zero- sense. Do you not understand that G2 boosts combat speed? How can combat speed be the same, then Luffy gets a power-up that boosts combat speed but it remains the same anyway? How can 1+1 still be 1?

    What Zoro has over base Luffy isn't combat speed. Zoro is better because he's extremely far more lethal and has much more destructive power. Zoro has no power-ups pertaining to speed of any kind. Luffy has one that literally increases the response rate of his bodily functions. G2 is not just a zipping around ability. Go back and re-read Enies Lobby if you've forgotten that. How in the name of hell can increasing his body's response rate to his intentions not make him faster than Zoro in terms of combat speed? He moves faster, attacks faster, reacts faster, everything becomes faster. This can not have negligible or minor impact on a good definition of a combat speed stat. That is absolutely impossible.
    gee, thats exactly what i said

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    Why don't you include it in attack speed? Not the RPG definition but in a real fight of course it matters. If all else is equal it will be a factor. Kizaru's kick moving faster means it finishes faster. That in turn means he is ready to launch a next move quicker. Even if the wind-up time is the same he'll still be getting attacks out at a higher rate. His long-range moves will reach opponents faster than theirs can reach him. Luffy's attacks becoming much faster with G2 is a big part of that power-up. The sonic boom has nothing to do with how fast he launches the attack but how fast it actually moves.
    Because then that skews it far too much. Kuma and Enel do not have great combat speed. Is a 360 pound canon faster than a Jet Pistol? How fast does Shambles travel across room?

    Kizaru is nothing like you're describing. This person sounds like as some high DPS fighter when he is definitely a nuker. Taking half a second to get everything off is a big deal against top tiers. Rayleigh was able to dash from offs creen and deflect a kick. Close up it was impossible for Kizaru to even teleport away. Kicking likely takes just as long. That is why he decided to use his sword. This doesn't even take into account that Kizaru has to think and aim such techniques. Combat speed is how fast Kizaru can get his leg into position. Not the following accelerated kick.

  20. #60
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    It doesn't skew if it's weighted appropriately against other factors. All else equal if two people can think that they're going to punch and get the standard motions done equally as fast but Person B's punch then moves faster and he can thus follow through with his next punch quicker, who has higher combat speed? The answer seems obvious to me.

    Maybe you should wait until you get to see him perform extended CQC until you conclude exactly what Kizaru is. We have never seen him in that situation other than vs Rayleigh who I consider fast among top tiers. It's a very very reasonable assumption that when Oda gives him a fleshed out fight he'll be portrayed as very fast. Take any OP fan off the street and ask them who the speed-focused Admiral is or if they think Kizaru is faster than Aokiji and Akainu. Why would Oda narrowly restrict the speed benefits of the man with the Light Logia exclusively to movement which isn't even very useful? Why give him a trademark line and technique about his speed only for it to mean nothing relative to other top tiers' kicking speeds? =/

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