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  1. #121
    Coruscation's Avatar
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    He never displayed any notable feats of battle intellect and was horrifically arrogant/overconfident. He's not an utter doofus or it'd be a 0 or 0.5 but he is completely unremarkable.

  2. #122
    Another guy goes down before we see much of :/.

    Decided to lower Trebol's toughness and muscle then raised defense. Injured so badly from a spinning dismembered arm? Oda really doesn't care how superhumanly tough and durable his characters are so supposed to be.

    This is like Tommy's arm defeating a 4B Limb. Apparently Law can defeat most pre-skip bosses with just his arm.

  3. #123
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    I think we're supposed to see Tact as being able to produce a hell of a lot of force. It could redirect a meteor and made Smoker drop his jutte.

    Trebol
    Strength: 2.5
    Power: 2
    Defense: 3
    Combat speed: 2.5
    Toughness: 2.5
    Mobility: 2
    Grace: 3
    Special: 2.5
    Intellect: 1.5

    Odd that he almost looks weaker than Diamante stats-wise. Due to lack of showings it's hard to tell how strong and fast he was really supposed to be. The special helps him out though.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I think we're supposed to see Tact as being able to produce a hell of a lot of force. It could redirect a meteor and made Smoker drop his jutte.

    Trebol
    Strength: 2.5
    Power: 2
    Defense: 3
    Combat speed: 2.5
    Toughness: 2.5
    Mobility: 2
    Grace: 3
    Special: 2.5
    Intellect: 1.5

    Odd that he almost looks weaker than Diamante stats-wise. Due to lack of showings it's hard to tell how strong and fast he was really supposed to be. The special helps him out though.
    your stats for Lao G/Dellinger?

  5. #125
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    I'm a little confused on the defense stat actually. Mitigating damage before it connects sounds like it could be either high evasion or high armor. Is that right or is it really just the latter? Because I rated Pica high in defense based on his extremely high ability to evade attacks by moving into rock but that doesn't really fit under speed. I'm just going to keep using defense the way I did for the Seats to avoid more confusion in comparisons.

    They compare to the average of their tier so it's not a direct comparison to Trebol/Diamante/Pica, I guess I'd go with this.

    Lao G
    Strength: 3 (5)
    Power: 2 (4)
    Defense: 4
    Combat speed: 5
    Toughness: 3 (4.5)
    Mobility: 1.5
    Grace: 4
    Special: 0
    Intellect: 3

    Dellinger
    Strength: 3.5
    Power: 2.5
    Defense: 4
    Combat speed: 4
    Toughness: 3
    Mobility: 2.5
    Grace: 4
    Special: 0
    Intellect: 3

    Stats are pretty similar, Dellinger has more mobility due to his presumably higher raw dashing speed. Lao G takes a clear win with his Roshi mode stats and has higher combat speed as I really don't think we're supposed to think Dellinger could have beaten DCJ around just as easily. Lao G seemed to be kind of physically weak in his old form only his skill was extremely high due to his special martial arts style, so his strength and power are lower outside Roshi mode.

  6. #126
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    Is Lao G's 5 in combat speed not disputable based on sais ability to connect his attack when ideo was utterly outclassed in speed by someone with a lower value

  7. #127
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    That isn't really combat speed, Sai simply reacted to his dash from a moderate distance, then used his own enormous power to counter Lao G's move. Lao G was obviously taken by surprise and didn't manage to dodge when Sai had already started up his finisher while simultaneously countering Lao's attack.

    A B- character who treated DCJ, even if he was sick and weakened, like a punching bag simply can not be anything else than top notch in combat speed for his level.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    That isn't really combat speed, Sai simply reacted to his dash from a moderate distance, then used his own enormous power to counter Lao G's move. Lao G was obviously taken by surprise and didn't manage to dodge when Sai had already started up his finisher while simultaneously countering Lao's attack.

    A B- character who treated DCJ, even if he was sick and weakened, like a punching bag simply can not be anything else than top notch in combat speed for his level.
    my concern was that lao g should have at the very least had the speed to raise his forearm in time to block sais kick, but instead was hit cleanly. If he was so amazing for a low high tier, he shouldn have had any problem reacting to sai imo, but if you can justify it im listening

  9. #129
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    Oda isn't perfect. That's the justification you'll have to settle for alongside what I gave you. Nitpicking fights to the degree of "should have been able to raise a forearm" doesn't really work unless it's something egregious.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    Oda isn't perfect. That's the justification you'll have to settle for alongside what I gave you. Nitpicking fights to the degree of "should have been able to raise a forearm" doesn't really work unless it's something egregious.
    if Oda had lao g block drill nail and be KO simply due to the attacks ridiculous power rather than by being outsped, then has no effect on lao gs portrayal as smeone with great combat speed. My problem with the scene was solely that sai landed his kick cleanly, as it suggests sais speed is in his ballpark

  11. #131
    Like Coru said that wasn't really combat speed. He made a mad dash straight forward and Sai saw it coming and got ready for it. More mobility than anything and just because he could win a contest once doesn't mean much. Law got a legitimate blow on Doffy with IS and we know who is faster there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coruscation View Post
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    I'm a little confused on the defense stat actually. Mitigating damage before it connects sounds like it could be either high evasion or high armor. Is that right or is it really just the latter? Because I rated Pica high in defense based on his extremely high ability to evade attacks by moving into rock but that doesn't really fit under speed. I'm just going to keep using defense the way I did for the Seats to avoid more confusion in comparisons.
    It was meant more for armor but evasion tricks like Trebol, Pica, and even Diamante's can count. Rating is more for the person's ability to mitigate damage not the actual defensive abilities being rated, if that makes sense. Well, I don't think I was thinking that way before but makes sense now. Probably go back change some people's defenses like the M3, etc.

    They compare to the average of their tier so it's not a direct comparison to Trebol/Diamante/Pica, I guess I'd go with this.

    Lao G
    Strength: 3 (5)
    Power: 2 (4)
    Defense: 4
    Combat speed: 5
    Toughness: 3 (4.5)
    Mobility: 1.5
    Grace: 4
    Special: 0
    Intellect: 3
    Now a 4 for defense here is strange. He is fast but has no way to stop damage at all. Not the same kind if evasion as Pica&Trebol. To their enemies their attacks are connecting to something but not really to their dismay. Trebol's is not particularly good but still a defense.

    Dellinger
    Strength: 3.5
    Power: 2.5
    Defense: 4
    Combat speed: 4
    Toughness: 3
    Mobility: 2.5
    Grace: 4
    Special: 0
    Intellect: 3

    Stats are pretty similar, Dellinger has more mobility due to his presumably higher raw dashing speed. Lao G takes a clear win with his Roshi mode stats and has higher combat speed as I really don't think we're supposed to think Dellinger could have beaten DCJ around just as easily. Lao G seemed to be kind of physically weak in his old form only his skill was extremely high due to his special martial arts style, so his strength and power are lower outside Roshi mode.
    How does Dellinger have below average power? Critical hits are entirely his thing and what differentiates him from Lao G. He can land many blows while Del only needs a few well placed shots. Those horns, heels, and teeth are absolutely lethal. Caesar, Gladius, Franky, Baby-5, Kinemon, Bart, Haj, M.Chopper, and maybe Mach are the only people I'd put over him indefinitely. Cav if you count him(still iffy on his placement). His next competition are Hody, Hyozo, Little Dragon, Sai, Bellamy, Senor, YCB, and that is about it. Del is just not flashy but clearly doesn't lack compared to his peers in power.
    Last edited by Dayum; 04-02-2015 at 10:45 PM.

  12. #132
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    If that's how defense is then Lao G and Dellinger should both be taken down a few notches based on my stats. To a 2.5-3 I guess if evasion still counts for a little.

    I thought mainly of his physical attacks. Ability to cut and pierce should take him up a bit. Even so I'm not sure how much damage he does compared to someone like Brooke, who we probably wouldn't rate very high in power, swords are treated as extremely lethal by Oda recently seeing Tashigi, Kyros and Law in today's chapter. His heels and horn criticals only OHKO'd mid tiers, hard to quantify; Ideo only went down after many hits and a bite to finish him. Hody should have him beat easily in power, Hody's bite is much stronger for sure and he has his fishman karate moves. Sai probably below as apparently he doesn't really use his bisento for cutting that much. I'd agree the rest are more comparable but those would generally be average to slightly below average for their tier, so a 2.5 to 3 for Dellinger still seems fair to me.

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