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  1. #1421
    Ink Spot's Avatar
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    @Sin;

    did you make those rolecards from JoJo and Wire game on PS or something?

  2. #1422
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ink Spot View Post
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    she didn't actually mess up anymore then you did really. just like you her entrance to the game was too sus for me, but riki's talk and death made me reconsider you.
    You are smarter than Riki for sure

  3. #1423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    You are smarter than Riki for sure
    i think you should stop understimating rikki

    he's a higher level player then me, we can trash talk all we want, but show some respect kiddo

  4. #1424
    Quote Originally Posted by Ink Spot View Post
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    @Sin;

    did you make those rolecards from JoJo and Wire game on PS or something?
    i made them in paint like a peasant. no template, each one was made by hand so to speak. i don't recommend you to follow my example, it's a ton of work for little gain. with the wire, i did it because i wanted to use the wire's font for the roles, so it was basically a thematic reason. with jojo, it was my first large scale-ish role madness on here, and i wanted to remove the possibilities for newbies to copy-paste parts out of their role PMs just to make it unlikelier that somebody fucks up that way and nets themselves a modkill.

    i probably won't go back to doing it this way, simply because it's boring as fuck and it's not really necessary unless you want to go the extra mile with a theme. i still think it's cool to do if a series has a specific font like in the wire, it adds love to the roles. but most series don't have that

  5. #1425
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin View Post
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    i had a big post written up but my computer blue-screened and i don't feel like doing it again

    the gist of it was that you could experiment with making certain number ranges correspond to role modifiers / variations. it might become clearer if i show it with an example

    I =

    1-5 - Macho Cop
    6-15 - Sane Cop
    16 - 20 - Amnesiac Cop
    21 - 24 - Paranoid Cop
    25 - Insane Cop

    II =

    1-10 - Voyeur
    11 - 25 - Watcher

    III =

    1-15 - Deputy Cop
    16 - 24 - Coroner
    25 - Thief

    these numbers and roles are arbitrary, but you get where i'm coming from. also if you decide to do this you shouldn't think too hard on balance anyways, this set-up would have innate fluctuation in how strong each faction is so it really doesn't matter. i personally would just try to make it more novel instead of balanced.

    also i feel like you are overcomplicating how to rand the mafia roles. just assign certain roles to certain town role splits. for example, if there is one investigative role, draw a mafia role from the one-investigative-role pool. if there are three investigative roles, draw a mafia role from the three-investigative-role pool. you could still rand the drawing of the mafia roles, but they will always be limited to a certain pool simply depending on which town roles are present. this also allows you to design the game in such a way that you can give a faction certain advantages. in the example above, three I's makes it possible for a town coroner to be in the game. naturally, you should then include the possibility for a mafia janitor in the three-investigative-role pool for mafia, as the coroner would be useless otherwise. it still doesn't guarantee that the coroner would be useful because a mafia janitor might just not get randed, but the possibility exists and that's all that matters.

    of course, if you decide to do it this way, there needs to be an overlap in the mafia role pool. there need to be some roles that are in multiple pools, because if a role is only present once, the mafia can immediately deduce which town roles could be present in the game which is a big advantage. by making overlapping roles, you can alleviate that sort of.

    anyways, i'm not sure if i managed to explain this sufficiently. if i couldn't bring my point across then simply try to tackle it alone lol.
    Okay so in the example you provided, the first pool corresponds to only drawing one I, the 2nd pool to 2 I's and the 3rd to 3 I's

    It's an interesting idea but that requires making a whole bunch of different pools doesn't it?. Since it's technically possible for example to get 9 I's or whatever category you have. And I'd have to do that for every category as well as the mafia. That seems pretty complicated.

    I do like the idea of roles for certain number ranges though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What I do like about the progressive tiers though is that you have a set up that's grounded in guaranteeing certain roles.

    So like in the first set up I proposed you're almost guaranteed a Cop/Jailer/Vig followed by weaker roles in that tier

    But if I'm going this route maybe I should opt to just guarantee those town roles, SK, and Godfather, and roll for what's left.

  6. #1426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin View Post
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    i made them in paint like a peasant. no template, each one was made by hand so to speak. i don't recommend you to follow my example, it's a ton of work for little gain. with the wire, i did it because i wanted to use the wire's font for the roles, so it was basically a thematic reason. with jojo, it was my first large scale-ish role madness on here, and i wanted to remove the possibilities for newbies to copy-paste parts out of their role PMs just to make it unlikelier that somebody fucks up that way and nets themselves a modkill.

    i probably won't go back to doing it this way, simply because it's boring as fuck and it's not really necessary unless you want to go the extra mile with a theme. i still think it's cool to do if a series has a specific font like in the wire, it adds love to the roles. but most series don't have that
    damn, well that copy pasting i understood, but hand carving those rolesheets for us for the sake of theme

    i really want to give the P5 that kind of love for a game that i'm going tune much better than i did bnha. i might use gimp for that tho, only if it doesn't take too long.

    i was wondering if you were gonna play? coz i have a couple of small questions

    if you're gonna play, i'm gonna ask someone on MU if what i'm doing is alright or not.

  7. #1427
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    I'm going to gather roles I'll also consider for the set up


    Arsonist
    Babysitter
    Banker
    Bomb
    Bookie
    Commuter
    Coroner
    Doctor
    Firefighter
    Follower
    Forensic Investigator
    Framer
    Friendly Neighbor
    Gladiator
    Governor
    Guard
    Gunsmith
    Innocent Child
    Inventor
    Jack-of-all-trades
    Janitor
    Lawyer
    Motion Detector
    Paranoid Gun Owner
    Poison Doctor
    Poisoner
    Priest
    Psychiatrist
    Psychologist
    Redirector
    Reporter
    Reviver
    Role Cop
    Roleblocker
    Suicide Bomber
    Universal Backup
    Vote Thief
    Voyeur
    Watcher

  8. #1428
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    People need to start using the Mafia Queue thread if they want to host.


    The Commander From Hell

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  9. #1429
    People need to start to have normal phase changes....
    Rest in Peace Dad
    June 15-1950 - October 21, 2015

  10. #1430
    Alchemist Avito's Avatar
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    ok tell me who the fuck gave beta best poster award for march

  11. #1431
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avito View Post
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    ok tell me who the fuck gave beta best poster award for march
    Stop being salty towards me man. You got kicked from OJ and are a frustrated individual who can only aim at joining that shitty forum called MM and made of terrible people or here at best. You are also a meme on NF.

    You get at me to feel yourself better since I'm still te greatest meme these lands have ever seen.

  12. #1432
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    Stop being salty towards me man. You got kicked from OJ and are a frustrated individual who can only aim at joining that shitty forum called MM and made of terrible people or here at best. You are also a meme on NF.

    You get at me to feel yourself better since I'm still te greatest meme these lands have ever seen.

  13. #1433
    Alchemist Avito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    Stop being salty towards me man. You got kicked from OJ and are a frustrated individual who can only aim at joining that shitty forum called MM and made of terrible people or here at best. You are also a meme on NF.

    You get at me to feel yourself better since I'm still te greatest meme these lands have ever seen.
    i dont remember getting kicked out of OJ i m still playing there and no MM isn't what you think they are good people its you who is wrong in all of the cases you should take a hard look at what you have done and apologise sincerely maybe then people will let you play the game you are even unwelcomed on OJ the most tolerable forum ever

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    rememebr this this is the lowest i will ever be getting talked down by beta

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    rememebr this this is the lowest i will ever be getting talked down by beta

  14. #1434
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avito View Post
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    i dont remember getting kicked out of OJ i m still playing there and no MM isn't what you think they are good people its you who is wrong in all of the cases you should take a hard look at what you have done and apologise sincerely maybe then people will let you play the game you are even unwelcomed on OJ the most tolerable forum ever

    - - - Updated - - -


    rememebr this this is the lowest i will ever be getting talked down by beta

    - - - Updated - - -


    rememebr this this is the lowest i will ever be getting talked down by beta
    Dude those people gave me 2 strikes because I gave explanations about being accused. They are the trashiest I have ever seen in a long time. Now you add up to that list given you are targeting me. I shall target you too then?

    And no they won't cancel their strikes even if I kneel myself.

    Anyway I'm done playing this childish convo I have a Discord to conquer

  15. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    Dude those people gave me 2 strikes because I gave explanations about being accused. They are the trashiest I have ever seen in a long time.
    I see the drama has spilled over to here? That's unfortunate. I suppose I should clear the record, then.

    Finalbeta hard inactived in the first game he participated in, and received a strike alongside several other players as a result.

    Finalbeta essentially gamethrew in his second game, OMGUSing another player for random voting him at the start of Day 1 even after basically everyone else told him how his reasoning was flawed, and then using a One-Shot Vigilante action to blindfire that player on the first Night, who turned out not only to be Town, but to have a Lover attached whom also died. When asked why he did it, Finalbeta responded with something along the lines of "so what?" When the Town reasonably considered Finalbeta for lynch, his response was to declare that he'd done nothing wrong and that everyone else was stupid for suspecting him. While Town ultimately won this game, it was exceedingly close due not only to the early blindfire removing two competent players, but also because Finalbeta's subsequent behavior eclipsed all other discussion on Day 2.

    Finalbeta was not considered for a strike after this game, because we couldn't say for certain that the gamethrowing was intentional and not just out of ignorance. After the game was over, we had a fairly long conversation with him in the Mafia Convo thread to ensure that he understood that his behavior in this game was not acceptable. It was at this time that we identified a fundamental problem with Finalbeta: he absolutely will not under any circumstance acknowledge specific fault on his part. That is to say, he will acknowledge things like "I'm not the best" or "I have made mistakes" or "I have room for improvement", but he will not get any more specific to that, and will defend his obviously flawed actions beyond any point of reason.

    Finalbeta's behavior in his third game was essentially the same as in the second. While he (thankfully) did not have a Vigilante action with which to eliminate the objects of his horrible OMGUS logic, he still proceeded to OMGUS two players, declaring that one of the two was Scum with certainty and that the Town would be stupid not to go after them. Moreover, in this game, at several points, Finalbeta made untrue statements to avoid admitting fault, and defended these statements well beyond any reason. In one example, one player joked that a new player already knew that Finalbeta was dumb, and Finalbeta retorted that the new player could not know this yet, since it was his first game. All fine, until the first player stated that he knew the new player outside the community - was the one that invited said player, even - and that he knew for a fact that the new player had read the previous games on the forum. Finalbeta responded by claiming that it was still more likely that the new player didn't read previous games, because reasons, and when it was pointed out that the first player had no reason to lie about this, Finalbeta insisted that said player had never claimed any relation to the new player. Even when it was pointed out exactly where and when that did indeed happen, Finalbeta insisted it had not.

    At the end of this game, Finalbeta was considered for one strike for gamethrowing, as he had essentially behaved in the same way as last game, and his attitude seemed to preclude any possibility of him improving. The two other coaches tasked with the determination spoke privately, and determined that they would not award a strike, as the behavior was simply not serious enough to be classified as game throwing, and instead felt that this would be Finalbeta's final warning. However, before this determination could be posted, Finalbeta began complaining about the possible strike, insisting he never lied at all during the game. He was asked by one of the coaches to cease, as his input would be asked for if it was required, but he did not. In the ensuing argument, he declared that the coaches, particularly myself as the host of the previous game, were all Nazis for not recognizing his brilliance, that he didn't care about MM anyway because it wasn't NF, that our community would fail without his amazing activity, etc. At this point, the two other coaches reconvened and opted not only to award the strike I had requested, because Finalbeta's subsequent argument essentially proved my point, but to award a second strike as well, due to Finalbeta's repeated insistence on bringing up his ban on NF and disrupting on-topic discussion with it. The three strikes mean that he is essentially prohibited from playing mafia on our community for one year.

    After the determination, Finalbeta continued to complain in the Mafia Convo thread. He was asked to cease disrupting discussion, and he did not. The primary administrator threatened him with a ban if he did not cease, and he continued regardless. As a result, he received a one-week ban for disrupting the community. He's currently pledged that he'll never come back, and that he's already forgotten about us, but that clearly doesn't seem to be the case, if he's already taken to badmouthing us elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    And no they won't cancel their strikes even if I kneel myself.
    The supreme irony is not just that Finalbeta literally talked his way into both strikes, but that all he had to do to prove me wrong was admit that he'd made some untrue statements in the previous game, apologize, and pledge to try and do better. My whole argument was that his refusal to acknowledge specific fault at any level, regardless of evidence presented, essentially precluded him from improving. But even after I literally spelled that out for him, he still insisted that he wasn't wrong. "It's not a lie if you believe it!" he argued, not realizing that him being literally incapable of recognizing his own fault actually strengthened the validity of my argument.

  16. #1436
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotaretilbo View Post
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    I see the drama has spilled over to here? That's unfortunate. I suppose I should clear the record, then.

    Finalbeta hard inactived in the first game he participated in, and received a strike alongside several other players as a result.

    Finalbeta essentially gamethrew in his second game, OMGUSing another player for random voting him at the start of Day 1 even after basically everyone else told him how his reasoning was flawed, and then using a One-Shot Vigilante action to blindfire that player on the first Night, who turned out not only to be Town, but to have a Lover attached whom also died. When asked why he did it, Finalbeta responded with something along the lines of "so what?" When the Town reasonably considered Finalbeta for lynch, his response was to declare that he'd done nothing wrong and that everyone else was stupid for suspecting him. While Town ultimately won this game, it was exceedingly close due not only to the early blindfire removing two competent players, but also because Finalbeta's subsequent behavior eclipsed all other discussion on Day 2.

    Finalbeta was not considered for a strike after this game, because we couldn't say for certain that the gamethrowing was intentional and not just out of ignorance. After the game was over, we had a fairly long conversation with him in the Mafia Convo thread to ensure that he understood that his behavior in this game was not acceptable. It was at this time that we identified a fundamental problem with Finalbeta: he absolutely will not under any circumstance acknowledge specific fault on his part. That is to say, he will acknowledge things like "I'm not the best" or "I have made mistakes" or "I have room for improvement", but he will not get any more specific to that, and will defend his obviously flawed actions beyond any point of reason.

    Finalbeta's behavior in his third game was essentially the same as in the second. While he (thankfully) did not have a Vigilante action with which to eliminate the objects of his horrible OMGUS logic, he still proceeded to OMGUS two players, declaring that one of the two was Scum with certainty and that the Town would be stupid not to go after them. Moreover, in this game, at several points, Finalbeta made untrue statements to avoid admitting fault, and defended these statements well beyond any reason. In one example, one player joked that a new player already knew that Finalbeta was dumb, and Finalbeta retorted that the new player could not know this yet, since it was his first game. All fine, until the first player stated that he knew the new player outside the community - was the one that invited said player, even - and that he knew for a fact that the new player had read the previous games on the forum. Finalbeta responded by claiming that it was still more likely that the new player didn't read previous games, because reasons, and when it was pointed out that the first player had no reason to lie about this, Finalbeta insisted that said player had never claimed any relation to the new player. Even when it was pointed out exactly where and when that did indeed happen, Finalbeta insisted it had not.

    At the end of this game, Finalbeta was considered for one strike for gamethrowing, as he had essentially behaved in the same way as last game, and his attitude seemed to preclude any possibility of him improving. The two other coaches tasked with the determination spoke privately, and determined that they would not award a strike, as the behavior was simply not serious enough to be classified as game throwing, and instead felt that this would be Finalbeta's final warning. However, before this determination could be posted, Finalbeta began complaining about the possible strike, insisting he never lied at all during the game. He was asked by one of the coaches to cease, as his input would be asked for if it was required, but he did not. In the ensuing argument, he declared that the coaches, particularly myself as the host of the previous game, were all Nazis for not recognizing his brilliance, that he didn't care about MM anyway because it wasn't NF, that our community would fail without his amazing activity, etc. At this point, the two other coaches reconvened and opted not only to award the strike I had requested, because Finalbeta's subsequent argument essentially proved my point, but to award a second strike as well, due to Finalbeta's repeated insistence on bringing up his ban on NF and disrupting on-topic discussion with it. The three strikes mean that he is essentially prohibited from playing mafia on our community for one year.

    After the determination, Finalbeta continued to complain in the Mafia Convo thread. He was asked to cease disrupting discussion, and he did not. The primary administrator threatened him with a ban if he did not cease, and he continued regardless. As a result, he received a one-week ban for disrupting the community. He's currently pledged that he'll never come back, and that he's already forgotten about us, but that clearly doesn't seem to be the case, if he's already taken to badmouthing us elsewhere.



    The supreme irony is not just that Finalbeta literally talked his way into both strikes, but that all he had to do to prove me wrong was admit that he'd made some untrue statements in the previous game, apologize, and pledge to try and do better. My whole argument was that his refusal to acknowledge specific fault at any level, regardless of evidence presented, essentially precluded him from improving. But even after I literally spelled that out for him, he still insisted that he wasn't wrong. "It's not a lie if you believe it!" he argued, not realizing that him being literally incapable of recognizing his own fault actually strengthened the validity of my argument.
    They weren't kidding about you being long winded

  17. #1437
    Rotaretilbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    They weren't kidding about you being long winded
    No. No they were not. :P

  18. #1438
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    FinalBeta is also making himself look like a fool in the current OJ game; he should just never be allowed to play again anywhere.


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  19. #1439
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotaretilbo View Post
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    I see the drama has spilled over to here? That's unfortunate. I suppose I should clear the record, then.

    Finalbeta hard inactived in the first game he participated in, and received a strike alongside several other players as a result.

    Finalbeta essentially gamethrew in his second game, OMGUSing another player for random voting him at the start of Day 1 even after basically everyone else told him how his reasoning was flawed, and then using a One-Shot Vigilante action to blindfire that player on the first Night, who turned out not only to be Town, but to have a Lover attached whom also died. When asked why he did it, Finalbeta responded with something along the lines of "so what?" When the Town reasonably considered Finalbeta for lynch, his response was to declare that he'd done nothing wrong and that everyone else was stupid for suspecting him. While Town ultimately won this game, it was exceedingly close due not only to the early blindfire removing two competent players, but also because Finalbeta's subsequent behavior eclipsed all other discussion on Day 2.

    Finalbeta was not considered for a strike after this game, because we couldn't say for certain that the gamethrowing was intentional and not just out of ignorance. After the game was over, we had a fairly long conversation with him in the Mafia Convo thread to ensure that he understood that his behavior in this game was not acceptable. It was at this time that we identified a fundamental problem with Finalbeta: he absolutely will not under any circumstance acknowledge specific fault on his part. That is to say, he will acknowledge things like "I'm not the best" or "I have made mistakes" or "I have room for improvement", but he will not get any more specific to that, and will defend his obviously flawed actions beyond any point of reason.

    Finalbeta's behavior in his third game was essentially the same as in the second. While he (thankfully) did not have a Vigilante action with which to eliminate the objects of his horrible OMGUS logic, he still proceeded to OMGUS two players, declaring that one of the two was Scum with certainty and that the Town would be stupid not to go after them. Moreover, in this game, at several points, Finalbeta made untrue statements to avoid admitting fault, and defended these statements well beyond any reason. In one example, one player joked that a new player already knew that Finalbeta was dumb, and Finalbeta retorted that the new player could not know this yet, since it was his first game. All fine, until the first player stated that he knew the new player outside the community - was the one that invited said player, even - and that he knew for a fact that the new player had read the previous games on the forum. Finalbeta responded by claiming that it was still more likely that the new player didn't read previous games, because reasons, and when it was pointed out that the first player had no reason to lie about this, Finalbeta insisted that said player had never claimed any relation to the new player. Even when it was pointed out exactly where and when that did indeed happen, Finalbeta insisted it had not.

    At the end of this game, Finalbeta was considered for one strike for gamethrowing, as he had essentially behaved in the same way as last game, and his attitude seemed to preclude any possibility of him improving. The two other coaches tasked with the determination spoke privately, and determined that they would not award a strike, as the behavior was simply not serious enough to be classified as game throwing, and instead felt that this would be Finalbeta's final warning. However, before this determination could be posted, Finalbeta began complaining about the possible strike, insisting he never lied at all during the game. He was asked by one of the coaches to cease, as his input would be asked for if it was required, but he did not. In the ensuing argument, he declared that the coaches, particularly myself as the host of the previous game, were all Nazis for not recognizing his brilliance, that he didn't care about MM anyway because it wasn't NF, that our community would fail without his amazing activity, etc. At this point, the two other coaches reconvened and opted not only to award the strike I had requested, because Finalbeta's subsequent argument essentially proved my point, but to award a second strike as well, due to Finalbeta's repeated insistence on bringing up his ban on NF and disrupting on-topic discussion with it. The three strikes mean that he is essentially prohibited from playing mafia on our community for one year.

    After the determination, Finalbeta continued to complain in the Mafia Convo thread. He was asked to cease disrupting discussion, and he did not. The primary administrator threatened him with a ban if he did not cease, and he continued regardless. As a result, he received a one-week ban for disrupting the community. He's currently pledged that he'll never come back, and that he's already forgotten about us, but that clearly doesn't seem to be the case, if he's already taken to badmouthing us elsewhere.



    The supreme irony is not just that Finalbeta literally talked his way into both strikes, but that all he had to do to prove me wrong was admit that he'd made some untrue statements in the previous game, apologize, and pledge to try and do better. My whole argument was that his refusal to acknowledge specific fault at any level, regardless of evidence presented, essentially precluded him from improving. But even after I literally spelled that out for him, he still insisted that he wasn't wrong. "It's not a lie if you believe it!" he argued, not realizing that him being literally incapable of recognizing his own fault actually strengthened the validity of my argument.
    You guys didn't consider some important things:

    1. I played Mafia only a few months in my life and never pushed myself much to improve, this doesn't mean you need to only accept players who are more experienced.
    2. Never said I was never wrong. I admitted to be wrong about shooting that guy in my first game and that I could still improve game by game even though I never said on which things I should have improved.
    3. You didn't manage to realise I was just defending myself to prevent getting a new strike and you gave me 2 instead out of a childish reasoning.
    4. You should believe more people, and be less diffident. If I say I didn't lie about stuff I didn't.
    5. It is true indeed that you won't cancel out my strikes so what's the point to bring up the discussion?

  20. #1440
    Rotaretilbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    You guys didn't consider some important things:

    1. I played Mafia only a few months in my life and never pushed myself much to improve, this doesn't mean you need to only accept players who are more experienced.
    2. Never said I was never wrong. I admitted to be wrong about shooting that guy in my first game and that I could still improve game by game even though I never said on which things I should have improved.
    3. You didn't manage to realise I was just defending myself to prevent getting a new strike and you gave me 2 instead out of a childish reasoning.
    4. You should believe more people, and be less diffident. If I say I didn't lie about stuff I didn't.
    5. It is true indeed that you won't cancel out my strikes so what's the point to bring up the discussion?
    I'm not here to start drama, nor to perpetuate a discussion where I give points and you ignore them and repeat debunked arguments, as was the case in our last major discussion. I don't see any value in disrupting TMF's Convo thread further. I simply noticed that you were badmouthing our community, and felt it was fair to give our side of the story. I will point out that you brought this up, not me.

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