PDA

View Full Version : Hunter x Hunter Tier List



Pages : [1] 2

FerreiraDaSilva
02-13-2013, 07:43 PM
The Tier List has been continued here. (http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?24424-The-Official-HxH-Tier-List)

Well, HxH doesn't have his own session thread, however it has quite the development for us to make such a list.

I hope that we can discuss here about HxH tiers, explaining why/how each character should be at some tier (just the way people did for Toriko or One Piece here in this forum).

Shall I begin ?

S+ (aka God Level)
Meruem

S
None (I think this gap is necessary to measure how much of the difference there is from The King to the rest)

A+
Royal Guards, Netero, maybe some elder from the Zoldyck family (Maha ? Zeno ?)

A
Nen monster users such as Silva and Lucifer, Ging should fit in here too. Although at the bottom end, Razor seems to belong in this tier as well

A-
Hisoka, Feitan, Sphinx, Uvo and Illumi. Zodiac Twelve members too. Morau and Novu from Extermination Team. Biscuit. Maybe some Top-Hunter Examiner too (besides Netero himself, of course)

B+
Frankly, Nobunaga and Machi. Top-Squadron Leaders.

B
Squadron Leader, Kastro, Gotoh and Kaito.

B-
Injuu members, Wing and other well trained nen-user such as Tsezguerra. Genthru, Hanzo and Kurapika possible. Top Chimera Officers. Gon, Killua, Knuckle and Shoot.

C+
Average Chimera Officers.

C
Riehvelt/Gido/Sadaso from Heavens Arena's 200th floor, maybe Leorio.

C-
Zushi, high level hunters without the knowledge of Nen.


Please, suggestions are welcomed people !

Rob
02-13-2013, 09:38 PM
Hmmmm, I'm only on Greed Island right now, but... where is Illumi?
I'm not sure if he gets future feats, but I'd assume he's around the same general level as Hisoka and Lucifer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for Zeno, did he not admit, that Lucifer could have killed him, during the Yorknew arc?

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: Nevermind. I found Illumi. Lower than Hisoka? :hmm Interesting.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-13-2013, 09:41 PM
I put Illumi a tier below Hisoka, but that can be changed in the future I think .. For now I'm using some statement from both Hisoka and Illumi and put him below, but he's at higher end of his tier.

And Zeno said the opposite, man - even so, it were just cheap talk between two badasses.

Rob
02-13-2013, 09:45 PM
Zeno :datass
Lucifer :datass
Illumi :datass
Hisoka :datass

Make a badass Tier-list :D

DoflaMihawk
02-13-2013, 10:09 PM
I think Lucifer should be A-. I get the vibe that he would've beaten Hisoka if he had his powers. Also put Ging in A.

This is probably the hardest manga to make a tier list for.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-13-2013, 10:14 PM
Netero is a badass on his own league. When it comes to Ryodan, Kurapika is epic too.

However, badass tier is out of question here xD

- - - Updated - - -


I think Lucifer should be A-. I get the vibe that he would've beaten Hisoka if he had his powers. Also put Ging in A.

This is probably the hardest manga to make a tier list for.

I messed with the A- tier (which I just skipped by accident, but doesn't change the matter of things), but Lucifer is already higher ranked than Hisoka, among Gin and other Top (Human) Nen users.

Why do you think it's the hardest ?

Kaang
02-13-2013, 10:43 PM
Meruem isn't S+. It was said that the place he's from is teeming with things just as strong as him. In fact everyone is so weak compared to the ant king there should be no a b or even C rank characters. The old man was th stongest by far and he was babyshaked. He was probably around having to quadruple in strènght just to get fodderized slower.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-13-2013, 10:53 PM
Well, it's true. But the higher is the tier the higher is the gap among them, so I think you can assume that there's a nearly infinite gap between S and A+, and yet a larger gap between S+ and S.

No need to put Meruem aside, but if he starts to annoying everyone then we could separate him from the rest (:

DoflaMihawk
02-13-2013, 11:37 PM
Why do you think it's the hardest ?

Because anybody could beat anybody given the correct circumstances.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-14-2013, 12:04 AM
Even so, there's plenty room for statement based on people's feats and status. We aren't establishing scenarios nor circumstances, only individual skill, nen abilities/experience, raw power and stuff.

I think the next step is - with the currently information we have - to rank individually members of groups such as Ryodan, Zodiac and Officers from Chimera Ants arc. I think the division as 'Top/Mid/Low Ryodan member' is fine, but we could specify which one is at top/mid/low if possible.

Some speculation doesn't hurt if you have some reasonable hint (:

Judgement
02-14-2013, 12:51 AM
Hanzo > Meruem

Magister
02-14-2013, 01:18 AM
Everything i say up to this point should be taken with a grain of salt:

It should be noted that the Royal Guards have a greater aura than Netero, though Netero's only saving grace at his age is his silent aura, he's a lot weaker than he used to be and didnt even harm Pitou when he hit him. It was tantamount to a forceful shove.

Gon and Killua are much stronger than C+, their aura is compared to the strength of a" Middle Class Pro" in Knuckle's words, and gave him a serious enough fight that he would have taken huge damage from Gon's Rock. They were stronger than Tsezguerra after Biscuit's training, he just had more experience moving his nen around, he was afraid of how much stronger they had become than him.

I would say base a list like this on general aura ability, usage and physical stats, with special mention on hatsu. Hatsu are noted in manga to change an entire fight when used appropriately, for example Kurapika's only saving grace in his fight with Uvo was Chain Jail working, Uvo broke his arm with one hit. Other people like Knuckle have hatsu that dont add anything in terms of fighting ability. Similar to Morel, his abilities are much more utility based, but he was noted for having about 50,000 more aura than Gon, so that might be about B+ rank.

The Ryodan also seem to be a little highly placed, given their general usage of aura and their high physical abilities i would place them all around B-B+ area. Zodiacs are hard too because we havent seen a single instance where they actually fought.

Kaang
02-14-2013, 01:27 AM
I think he old man was stronger than the guardians. Poitou is probabaly the most durable but on top of that no guardian is going to dodge those hits. I would go as far to say that netero did as much damage as a forceful push I would say he did enough damage to add up to a win. I mean look how long he fought the king.

Magister
02-14-2013, 02:00 AM
It's outright stated that Netero wouldnt even get past the Royal Guards to fight the King, though it's not certain if he meant 3x1, or 1x1. Pitou was perfectly able-bodied after his hit, it could be possible Netero could have beaten Pitou, but it certainly demonstrates that Netero is only just at their level, if not weaker in his old age.

Its also inferred that Gon and Killua are at about Knuckle and Shoot's skill. and that Gon's Rock was enough to seriously freak Morel out if it hit him.

HxH has made it pretty clear that the divides in power have always been fairly small.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-14-2013, 02:07 AM
Everything i say up to this point should be taken with a grain of salt:

It should be noted that the Royal Guards have a greater aura than Netero, though Netero's only saving grace at his age is his silent aura, he's a lot weaker than he used to be and didnt even harm Pitou when he hit him. It was tantamount to a forceful shove.

Well, as far as we put Meruem at God Level, I think that the only one capable of doing some tiny scratch on him is/were old Netero.




Gon and Killua are much stronger than C+, their aura is compared to the strength of a" Middle Class Pro" in Knuckle's words, and gave him a serious enough fight that he would have taken huge damage from Gon's Rock. They were stronger than Tsezguerra after Biscuit's training, he just had more experience moving his nen around, he was afraid of how much stronger they had become than him.

In fact they weren't stronger than Tsezguerra after Biscuit's training. The only statement Tsez made was about that despite himself being overall stronger than those 2 he has became very dull and maybe he should do the basics all over again like them. Anyway, maybe them already reached his level or above on Chimera Ant arc really.


I would say base a list like this on general aura ability, usage and physical stats, with special mention on hatsu. Hatsu are noted in manga to change an entire fight when used appropriately, for example Kurapika's only saving grace in his fight with Uvo was Chain Jail working, Uvo broke his arm with one hit. Other people like Knuckle have hatsu that dont add anything in terms of fighting ability. Similar to Morel, his abilities are much more utility based, but he was noted for having about 50,000 more aura than Gon, so that might be about B+ rank.

The Ryodan also seem to be a little highly placed, given their general usage of aura and their high physical abilities i would place them all around B-B+ area. Zodiacs are hard too because we havent seen a single instance where they actually fought.

As a fighting power tier list we could classify some Ryodan/Zodiac members above others, it feels right to you that Hisoka is at A- ? Then I think it's very reasonable that they have some other Hisoka level members - or at least nearly. But maybe the majority of members really are at B+ (it's already there as 'average Ryodan member' in fact). We should try give some names already ?

For the Zodiac members that we already have some hint about Hisoka wasn't all that impressed - I believe that there are some stronger members among them (besides Ging himself), but as the first impression they didn't seem like bigger shit than Ryodan.

Rob
02-14-2013, 03:04 AM
Hanzo > Meruem

Well, looks like you're still trying to have people take you seriously :smoke

Judgement
02-14-2013, 03:11 AM
Well, looks like you're still trying to have people take you seriously :smoke http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzd3wsh6TP1qzk4cro2_500.gif

Magister
02-14-2013, 06:25 AM
I assume Young Netero would at least be a good challenge, but after like 120 years his body isnt what it used to be. But Colt mention's that he couldnt match one of the Royal Guards in pure aura, so it would put them at the same level with his abilities what they are.

Tsezguerra also mentions their raw ability exceeds his own and that he should still be the better fighter, so if thats correct they are at least on his level, though by now they've likely exceeded it with all the strength they've gained since then.

Clearly Hisoka's raw ability combined with his Nen make him a dangerous opponent, but his strength doesnt define the Ryodan. Kortupi, Shizuku and Shalnark would most likely be lower B- or even C because they are specifically utility members moreso than combat ability. Nobunaga, Machi, Franklin are most likely B range (with the exception of Pain Packer). While Uvo Phinks Feitan are in the B+ range, while Hisoka and Chrollo are A. If Hisoka only fights the strongest, his general lack of interest in fighting the rest of the Ryodan must mean something.

The Zodiac's are possible, but in my opinion it seemed Hisoka was just reading their general abilities. I believe that you dont make Double or Triple hunter and become the Chairman's go-to group without having some skill worth bringing to the table. I'd at least give them the benefit of the doubt and say they may be stronger.

Doc Q
02-14-2013, 09:40 AM
I'm a little out of the loop with HxH, been a while since I've read it. But I would definetely change some stuff up if I had to make a tier list.

I'll post my alterations later.

DoflaMihawk
02-14-2013, 01:25 PM
If Gon and Killua are the same tier, then Hisoka and Illumi (their parallels) should also be equal.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-14-2013, 04:50 PM
@Magister:

Man, if you could please post here what was the cap when Colt speaks about Netero's and Royal Guard's nen - I don't remember it well ! It may help to change peoples' mind (including mine).
But among what was said and done, I tend to put Netero above them yet. He was the only one capable of made some scratch on Meruem - not only when the King was trying to speak, but in actually fight too. Although we know it's an impossible scenario to a Royal Guard turns against Meruem, I still doubt if one of them could do some nearly feat.
The short confront against Pitou for me had the opposite effect that you mentioned. Netero in 00'00''01 of a second could do almost whatever he wanted to the Royal Guard - if it was an actual fight she'd be probably dead against some technique that scratched the King, at least this is how much of a gap I believe that exists between the King and the rest.

For what you said about Gon and Killua I'll change them to B-, ok ? But I always remember when people says 'this guy probably surpassed the other by now' that the other side usually isn't stoned doing nothing too - it's more likely Tsezguerra had improved as well, but since the 2 youngsters are freaking genius and possibly at this point in the series passed for much more dangerous situation it's ok.

The Ryodan matter in my opinion is that even the lowest among them should still be a bit above than the likes of Gon and Killua, and I still think that there are some Hisoka's level members too, but your classification among them seems fine. I'd just up a tier for each of yours, with the top 3 guys together with Hisoka.

The question about Hisoka not being interested in fighting other Ryodan members then should be applied with the Zodiacs too, however you are more condescending to them. The question IMO is that there are members from both Ryodan and Zodiac that really ARE at Hisoka's level, the real deal is that Hisoka himself is much more interested in people stronger than him ! Lucifer is stronger than him, Netero was ridiculously stronger than him, yet Hisoka would like to fight against the chairman and not some more realistic opponent such as Sphinx.

Well, it's just my opinion though, keep the discussion man (and take a look in my updates on the list !)

- - - Updated - - -

@DoflaMihawk:

It's not necessarily the same case man. First of all, Hisoka is interested in both, although he's more connected to Gon of course. Illumi doesn't see Killua as a rival or anything, he's much more concerned about 'the family', that's why he would even kill Gon if it was necessarily to keep Killua as an assassin, while Hisoka would rather await to confront both when the time comes.

Well, putting the counterpart stuff aside, the fact is that it still exists some implied hierarchy between Hisoka and Illumi, even if that means nothing, while we don't see as many feats from Illumi as we already saw from Hisoka I guess he's slightly below him.

DoflaMihawk
02-14-2013, 04:54 PM
I don't remember any hierarchy being implied between Hisoka and Illumi.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-14-2013, 05:08 PM
There were plenty of situations when Illumi stepped back due to Hisoka advertisement. On Hunter Exam he was always the second too. And besides the Hunter Exam when although second he was at least nearly to Hisoka's feats, he really doesn't have any feats of his own.

In some passage on the laters chapters he was even manipulated by Hisoka. Like I said, maybe all that stuff I mentioned really doesn't mean shit, but right now is everything we have and seems like a bit of advantage for Hisoka.

DoflaMihawk
02-14-2013, 10:02 PM
Why would Illumi have feats, we've barely seen him in action.

I recall Illumi releasing his killing aura and Hisoka was startled at first.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-15-2013, 02:59 AM
Exactly ! We barely saw him in action, and the few times we saw he was like the second better at everything in the exam - right after Hisoka, which in the other side has quite the feats of his own. I could give the benefit of doubt to him, how about wait for some other people to give their opinions - maybe there are more guys around interpreting the same way as you, It's not all that big deal to put him a tier above.

DoflaMihawk
02-15-2013, 01:35 PM
I don't think many people here have read HxH, so I wouldn't wait.

Give me some examples of how Illumi has come off as second better to Hisoka.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-15-2013, 04:03 PM
He was always the second to finnish the exams, like on Trick Tower - right after Hisoka. Also, he got messed up when Gon became upset on the final exam, while Gon only got a chance to do some minor scratch on Hisoka after learning Nen on Heavens Arena arc.
He got many times adverted by Hisoka during Hunter Exam arc about not touching Gon - some bossy behavior towards Illumi even with a smile on Hisoka's face, which Illumi accepted.
On the other hand, when Illumi gets mad about Hisoka saying that he'd kill Killua, he goes all out with his kill intent only to discover that Hisoka was manipulating him.

To finish, we already saw Hisoka playing with the lives of some experienced Nen users such as Kastro and Gotoh, while Illumi stills a blank page. Of course, I'm not saying that Illumi is weaker thant those two, only saying that we didn't saw him yet against anybody even near their level, just it.


Some demonstration of hierarchy and psychological superiority too, besides other feats on Hisoka's side which give him the advantage compared to someone that we barely saw accepting his warnings on Hunter Exam arc. As I already said 2 or 3 times, it barely says something, but that's the way I understand the few hints we have about their gap.

Nova
02-15-2013, 06:57 PM
Killua is top tier :datass

Magister
02-15-2013, 07:52 PM
I simple dont want to rank the Zodiacs because Hisoka chose not to be interested in them. Pariston was a part of Beyond's team, and i'd assume he'd want a group of strong people at his side, given his character. We literally have not seen the Zodiacs do anything other than talk. We have however seen a majority of what the Ryodan can do, it's easier to make a distinction between them.

Gon and Killua were noted for taking extreme/near-impossible bounds in their training in comparison to other people, it's they schtick. I believe 100% that their training is more fruitful than Tsuzguerra's could be.

Yah i have it, i meant to post it awhile ago but I forgot to. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v21/c215/3.html . I know that aura isnt everything, but given what he did to both Pitou and the King, I think Netero lost a lot of his skill with old age. If at the very least he has the possibility of killing Pitou with Tsukumo no Te, etc. Then all it means is that he Pitou isnt ungodly higher than him, I would put them at the same level, maybe less.

DoflaMihawk
02-15-2013, 10:09 PM
He was always the second to finnish the exams, like on Trick Tower - right after Hisoka. Also, he got messed up when Gon became upset on the final exam, while Gon only got a chance to do some minor scratch on Hisoka after learning Nen on Heavens Arena arc.
He got many times adverted by Hisoka during Hunter Exam arc about not touching Gon - some bossy behavior towards Illumi even with a smile on Hisoka's face, which Illumi accepted.
On the other hand, when Illumi gets mad about Hisoka saying that he'd kill Killua, he goes all out with his kill intent only to discover that Hisoka was manipulating him.

Clearly neither Hisoka nor Illumi were trying during the Exams. PlusIllumi just let Gon attack him. He even had his arm broken and shook it off.

Magister
02-15-2013, 10:53 PM
Clearly neither Hisoka nor Illumi were trying during the Exams. PlusIllumi just let Gon attack him. He even had his arm broken and shook it off.

Agreed, it was absolutely clear Hisoka and Illumi held back their real skill. They have a lot of strength, enough to scare the shit out of Killua when Illumi was about to take Alluka back.

I have a strange idea that next arc will include much stronger people, why else would they have GOn and Killua mid-class after like 300 chapters?

FerreiraDaSilva
02-16-2013, 08:12 AM
Well, I think everybody know that both were holding back. But why do you think that even in this condition Hisoka had a better performance ? Coincidence ?

Magister
02-16-2013, 07:27 PM
I think he prefers enjoying the battle more than winning. So in comparison to Illumi, Hisoka has a lot of battle skill, but does not become stronger when enraged or angry like most due, he always has a large amount of bloodlust in his fights.

Illumi on the other hand would most like have less battle strength while fighting Hisoka, but he has a greater latent power, shown when he actually gets serious he is incredibly terrifying. So basically Illumi holds back more of his power, while Hisoka normally has it on display.

Not to mention is seems Hisoka's Bungee Gum has become much stronger than it has been previously, i think something brought about a substantial increase in strength, maybe Illumi gelped him?

FerreiraDaSilva
02-17-2013, 12:51 AM
Well, if all of you insists then I'll change his location on the list - together with Hisoka and some Ryodan members. We really don't saw nothing yet about the Zodiac, however what we saw about Ryodan for me is very impressive. In fact, the only ones that we saw in action for real were Feitan and Ubogin (Uvo), and I had the impression that they made more than we yet saw about Hisoka feats, so I still think that at least those 2 are at A-, we don't know yet the currently level of the ones placed on B+ (Macchi, Franklyn and Nobunaga), but we already have some hint about the others on B- being more of the intelligence team.



If you'd put Royal Guards at least on Netero's level then what you'd do ? Drop Netero to A or rank the Guards higher to A+ ?

Rob
02-17-2013, 06:09 PM
Why exactly is Uvogin on the same Tier as Hisoka (Feitan/Phinx, if you will)?

Edit: And why is Kurapika below Uvogin by like, what? 3 Tiers? He owned Uvo last time I checked...

DoflaMihawk
02-17-2013, 06:35 PM
Is Uvo the huge guy Kurapika took down?

He was probably super strong, just that Kurapika had the CHAINOFDEATH.

Magister
02-17-2013, 06:47 PM
^ Yup. Stated 1000 times in manga as proof. Uvo was extremely powerful, and the only reason Kurapika won was Chain Jail. I would think that places Uvo right around the level of Phinks and Chrollo. He busted up Kurapika's arm with a single hit.

I would drop Old Netero down to A with the Royal Guards. It seems like the next arc will have people who will be A+ rank, so mostly likely theres a definite tier above him.

I would also put Kaito as B+, he seemed liked he would have been fine to kill the Chimera Ants by himself had Pitou not shown up. But I doubt someone like Kaito would be at the same level as the Ant Extermination Team, they performed quite a few stronger feats than he did

Rob
02-17-2013, 07:48 PM
Oh, I see. So it's a A>B>C>A type of situation right?

Interesting. I love HxH! :D

FerreiraDaSilva
02-17-2013, 11:12 PM
^ Yup. Stated 1000 times in manga as proof. Uvo was extremely powerful, and the only reason Kurapika won was Chain Jail. I would think that places Uvo right around the level of Phinks and Chrollo. He busted up Kurapika's arm with a single hit.

I would drop Old Netero down to A with the Royal Guards. It seems like the next arc will have people who will be A+ rank, so mostly likely theres a definite tier above him.

I would also put Kaito as B+, he seemed liked he would have been fine to kill the Chimera Ants by himself had Pitou not shown up. But I doubt someone like Kaito would be at the same level as the Ant Extermination Team, they performed quite a few stronger feats than he did

Man I really thought that the last Chimera Ant arc was made to show us how apart from freak Meruem (and maybe the Royal Guard), Netero was totally out of any other human being's league. Why do you think that the new arc will introduce people stronger than the strongest man in the world ?
We already have a lot of ridiculous powerful nen users such as Lucifer, Silva and Razor, and others like Ging that are some way above all the HxH universe .. and even so, all of them are below Netero.
I really doubt that we'll be able to see people stronger than Netero the way we saw on CA, also the way they exterminated almost any remain of them for me is a signal that we never gonna see this kind of power again.

Kaito was murdered by a Royal Guard when trying to protect Gon and Killua alone, while Morau was struggling against other RG without that burden (in fact, with the help of Gon, Killua, Shoot and Knuckle). Novu only by sensing Pitou was out of his mind. I think that if Kaito was at the same condition as Morau with previous information and with the help of 5 middle tier he could do nearly the same damage Morau did.

Magister
02-17-2013, 11:13 PM
Rob Lucci Im not entirely sure what youre talking about. But yah that's what makes Nen so fun, in my opinion, no battle is ever certain, depending on who the people are, they can have a completely different outcome then two other people.

Kurapika is basically only godly against the Genei Ryodan because his life is now on the line completely. If he fought say Leol for the Chimera Ants, he would be killed easily, cause none of his abilities help him at all.

Netero once was the strongest hunter for centuries, its very likely neither is true now. And its simply because all manga have to move forward, if we just sat with Gon fighting B+ now instead of Pitou, then it would be boring, all main characters have to keep fighting stronger people, its a fact. So for this manga to continue they battles will have to escalate beyond what we saw Gon do to Pitou. Not to mention Beyond and his men, Pariston, and everything on the outside that is likely at Meruem's level.

Kaito was completely murdered by Pitou, he stood behind to give Gon and Killua a chance. He gave him a good fight, if I remember, but that was BEFORE Pitou fully understood/ used (i dont think he had it then, though im not sure) Nen. which is saying something. Morel slowed Yupi down, again with the help of Shoot, for awhile, Knuckle for a brief time and Killua, for a brief time. But once he lost his pipe he would have been killed. In fact Yupi had 10x's the aura Morel had, and they still did not hurt him in any significant way.
So it's Yupi > Morel > Kaito > Novu > Shoot and Knuckle. Novu's only real skill was his portals, he seemed like he would have been more reliant on Hatsu and his support abilities

Edit: Pitou had Nen, but not a Hatsu when he fought Kaito, and immediately cut off his arm. So at the very least, Pitou got MUCH stronger with Tepischora and his other hatsu.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-17-2013, 11:22 PM
Why exactly is Uvogin on the same Tier as Hisoka (Feitan/Phinx, if you will)?

Edit: And why is Kurapika below Uvogin by like, what? 3 Tiers? He owned Uvo last time I checked...

In fact maybe Kurapika deserve some better place, not exactly cause he defeated Uvo since it was some extremely specific condition, but when his eyes turn red he got quite the upgrade - like the way he healed his broken arm. And the red-eye activation isn't directly linked to Ryodan but to Kurapikas emotions, so it's much more reasonable to consider when ranking him.

Rob
02-17-2013, 11:44 PM
@Magister

By A>B>C>A I mean, Kurapika>Uvo>Someone between them in the tier slot>Kurapika

It's just matchups. Like... Pokemon. Fire>Grass>Water>Fire.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-17-2013, 11:47 PM
@Magister: Man, until now all that we saw were people ridiculously strong saying that Netero was the invincible man. Ging was one of the Top 5 Hunters in the whole world, and still was Netero's underling - just like Pariston.

I believe that we aren't going to see people at Netero's level so soon. And at Meruem level ? Man, it's quite difficult to believe. That's not because we had some godlike Gon x Pitou on last arc that they'll keep this kind of power level for the next arc - also the way Gon nearly lost everything is quite the hint that we aren't going to see at least so soon Gon fighting like that again.

The real deal on CA arc was how yet weaker, the Hunter Association were successful dealing with godlike beings such as Meruem and the Royal Guards. We saw the up-to-now most powerful human on the series barely touching a newborn king. If it was Togashi's intention to introduce permanently this kind of DBZ level then we'd have some different way to end the arc than a nuclear bomb destroying the most powerful being on the series while the DBZ-like fight between Gon and Pitou were a secondary event.

There are plenty room to stronger characters appearances without the needing to be Meruem level, Gon and Killua are still far away from Hisoka, not even to mention Lucifer, Ging, Morau, Ryodan members. I hope that HxH doesn't become some Bleach story where Gon can be mad all the time and become some monster like the way he did against Pitou - it was some extremely special case, not some 'uncontrollable upgrade'.

Magister
02-18-2013, 12:58 AM
Kurapika's eyes give him a slight boost in aura, but it doesnt at all mean that is how he is at a normal level. He had to get incredibly angry, at Uvogin, before even his Chain Jail could be activated, and in no way represent his real level of training or control before its use. Kurapika, even with his Crimson Eyes, without Chain Jail, could never have beaten Uvogin, that much was absolutely certain.

Gon was still very close to Pitou even before he used his Transformation Hatsu. I would say he could at least keep up with Pitou when they fought. That's exaclty what im saying, people are going to keep getting stronger than what we've seen even so far. Keep in mind that i said the stuff outside should be about Mereum's level, not that the very next villans are going to be at that level, like you said, there's a huge gap in power, but thats not to say that another character wont be at that level at some point in the manga.

Edit: It's Judgement Chain that needs his Crimson Eyes, not Chain Jail. But the fact still stands that Uvogin had too much strength for Kurapika to fight normally.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-18-2013, 01:08 AM
So are you saying that Gon is nearly Netero's level right now ? If it was not by Hatsu he wouldn't lay a finger on Pitou man.

About the general level for future arcs I agree that it is a possibility, but I really doubt. Maybe people like Silva or Lucifer could someday on the series stand at Netero's level. But Meruem .. well, it'll be needed some DBZ level for this. And of course, someday all the 4 protagonists should be above all, but it's something to a 'final arc'.

Certainly Kurapika isn't at an average Ryodan member level yet, but with his Special type when on red-eye mode he got some good abilities, for me he's at Knuckle/Shoot level - slightly above Gon and Killua even with the recent battle experience they got.

Magister
02-18-2013, 01:27 AM
So are you saying that Gon is nearly Netero's level right now ? If it was not by Hatsu he wouldn't lay a finger on Pitou man.

About the general level for future arcs I agree that it is a possibility, but I really doubt. Maybe people like Silva or Lucifer could someday on the series stand at Netero's level. But Meruem .. well, it'll be needed some DBZ level for this. And of course, someday all the 4 protagonists should be above all, but it's something to a 'final arc'.

Certainly Kurapika isn't at an average Ryodan member level yet, but with his Special type when on red-eye mode he got some good abilities, for me he's at Knuckle/Shoot level - slightly above Gon and Killua even with the recent battle experience they got.

-He's not at Netero's level at all, Im saying he at least closed enough of the gap to not be fodder against Pitou originally, the same way you think Kaito could.

-Gon and Killua showed quite a bit of skill in their physical training as well as aura, i'd say they are stronger than Kurapika is normally now, but then again his Chain Jail and Judgement Chain dont work on them. In comparison Gon and Killua have hatsu that do not have restrictions, they are way stronger in base power than Kurapika is, especially without his two best hatsu.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-18-2013, 01:46 AM
Humm, I understood .. so you think they're (or just Gon is, whatever) nearly Kaito's level ? I think it's a bit too early yet. When alive, Kaito was clearly above them on CA arc.

Kurapika's Hatsu is useless in almost any situation. But his red-eye Special type isn't. Although he wasn't at Uvo's level, before he used his chains techniques he already gave a hell of a punch on him, surprising even Uvo that was expert at close-range/barehanded fight. Well, the red eye still isn't very reliable compared to Gon and Killua hatsu, but if you consider it then he's at least on their level even being left aside for quite some time.

Whatever, thanks to the discussion so far, I'm thinking about:

Put Netero (together with the Zoldyck Elder speculation) together with Royal Guards on A+, letting A for the likes of Silva, Ging and Lucifer.

Put some Zodiac below Hisoka/Illumi, since we already have some hint about their level on numbers. Maybe at B+ together with average Ryodan members. To be exactly, I'm talking about Ginta, Kanzai and Piyon.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-19-2013, 05:23 AM
Anyone support this changes I mentioned on last post ? (:

Judgement
02-19-2013, 05:17 PM
I would put all of the Zodiac above Hisoka/Illumi You can't take his readings seriously because it could be how interested he is with them, also the same people who sparred with Netero and we don't know for how long.. if it's been for years they would stomp both of them. Some of the Zodiac might of been giving out more aura than others while others concealed theirs.. so it's not a good indication on how strong they are. He doesn't know them or their abilities.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-19-2013, 06:06 PM
Talking about conceal their aura and stuff I don't believe that Illumi for example was emitting all of his aura in such a meaningless occasion and even so he was ranked above the three Zodiac members present on the voting by Hisoka's sensor thing.

First of all I don't believe that exists an homogeneous power level among elite groups such as Ryodan or Zodiac, most likely every single member has it's importance and is very good in his area - sure even a low tier Ryodan member responsible for intelligence or infiltration is stronger than most of pro-hunters that were present at the voting despite of their specialization, however among elite Nen users even the slightly difference in power could be lethal, then it comes to how much of a fighter you are.

Even so, in HxH universe there is sooooo many other ways to win besides being the 'strongest' or the most 'fight-orientated' type that I really believe Shalnark or Shizuku could somehow defeat people like Uvogin, Hisoka or even stronger guys, who knows.

Anyway, as a fighting-skills based Tier list, I'd assume that those 3 from Zodiac probably aren't the most skilled in fight nor raw powerful ones. Don't seems to me that the numbers said by Hisoka were for nothing.

What about Pariston, though ? Since we put Ging on A maybe he deserves be there too ?

Judgement
02-19-2013, 07:30 PM
Talking about conceal their aura and stuff I don't believe that Illumi for example was emitting all of his aura in such a meaningless occasion and even so he was ranked above the three Zodiac members present on the voting by Hisoka's sensor thing. First of all I don't believe that exists an homogeneous power level among elite groups such as Ryodan or Zodiac, most likely every single member has it's importance and is very good in his area - sure even a low tier Ryodan member responsible for intelligence or infiltration is stronger than most of pro-hunters that were present at the voting despite of their specialization, however among elite Nen users even the slightly difference in power could be lethal, then it comes to how much of a fighter you are. Even so, in HxH universe there is sooooo many other ways to win besides being the 'strongest' or the most 'fight-orientated' type that I really believe Shalnark or Shizuku could somehow defeat people like Uvogin, Hisoka or even stronger guys, who knows. Anyway, as a fighting-skills based Tier list, I'd assume that those 3 from Zodiac probably aren't the most skilled in fight nor raw powerful ones. Don't seems to me that the numbers said by Hisoka were for nothing. What about Pariston, though ? Since we put Ging on A maybe he deserves be there too ? Hisoka isn't a good indicator on how strong they would be like I said some of them might not be giving out any aura at all or putting out that much.. there is no reason for any of them to be giving out strength at all. They gathered up because Netero died and wanted to find a new chairman.. there is no reason for them to be using Nen at all. We don't know what the rankings were based off of and Hisoka knows Illumi better than the Zodiac, the group of people that Netero recognized their strength.Hisoka is strong but he doesn't have any real experience with a super strong foe.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-19-2013, 08:07 PM
Man, the question is exactly that no one there was needing to emit any kind of super aura - nor even Zodiac OR Illumi. Even so in the same conditions the latent aura of Illumi was bigger than of any Zodiac member present there. That's what I'm talking about.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, we still don't know well how Hisoka measured their numbers, which was the criteria and stuff, I'm only presuming it was related to Nen, but even so, that numbers stated that Illumi was above the Zodiac members (and none of them were in some kind of aura contest so ..)

Magister
02-20-2013, 01:19 AM
That was Illumi's Killing Intent, not his aura.

Again it was clear Hisoka just rates them based on their disposition and tendency towards battle. Nothing about it is measuring anything other than who Hisoka wants to fight the most, not a judge of skill he can make by looking at them for second. Besides aura specifically cannot be measured until the moment it is used.

Edit: Gon also mentions that in basic fighting skill, Knuckle and Kaito are just about even, so yes Gon has quickly reached Kaito's level by the end of the CA arc

FerreiraDaSilva
02-21-2013, 12:24 AM
Well, we can give the terminology we want, the fact is that we don't know yet exactly what Hisoka was measuring on the voting. But, whatever it was, certainly Illumi had it above the 3 Zodiac members present. And, IMO, if it wasn't something related to fighting skills and stuff then the gap between the likes of Illumi and Zodiac compared to other Pro Hunters wouldn't be so huge as Hisoka stated.

I don't see any reason to already put generically all the Zodiac members above Ryodan level just because they were acknowledge by Netero. The Chairman in CA arc went with a Extermination Team composed by other 2 elite Hunters that he said were 'the best of the best', yet we saw that they were far away below the Chairman and nothing extremely impressive compared to some Ryodan performance we saw on the same arc.

Whatever stuff this measuring thing from Hisoka was ranking, it's our major hint about those 3 level until now. We already saw that, besides Netero himself, the Hunter Association has some 'middle-high tier' members with great status inside the association - like the statement about Morau and Novu, some examiners that were noticeably weaker than Hisoka, etc. Sure we have Ging on the Zodiac, but I really doubt that - again, WHATEVER Hisoka was measuring - it would be less than Illumi rank.

The thing about Kaito and Knuckle I need to see again the page where Gon made this statement, however considering their achievements Kaito is on top among middle tiers like Gon AND Knuckle. And, although the tier list is based on general fighting skills we need to consider the difference between their Nen abilities too: while Knucle's Hatsu was stated to not change anything on his combat abilities, Kaito's improved his battle power in some huge amount.

Magister
02-21-2013, 01:08 AM
1. Lmao, we cant accurately judge what Hisoka was judging, but it must mean Illumi is stronger. To be fair its suspect if he was even talking about Illumi, he appeared after he thought about the 90.

2. They werent the only hunters in the team, their were numerous other ones gathering information, containing the Chimera Ants and cleaning up. These are just the ones who fought with the Chairman, Novu and Morel were the only ones he trsuted enough and could get on a relatively short notice, they just brought along their students. Hence why he had half the team had to undergo emotional training/aura training before being able to fully join the team. Besides they formed the team back when they thought the Chimera Ants were just C+ rank guys, they didnt expect the King to be born so quickly, or for them to learn Nen so quickly. We dont know how much time passed since the start of the election, it could have taken weeks to get the Zodiac together, which they didnt have to fight the Ants.

3. Knuckle and Shoot were at least strong enough to beat Kaito as a zombie, before they restricted his Nen with Hakoware, he had his full abilities to him, if lacking in intelligence. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v20/c205/4.html is where they say Kaito and Knuckle are roughly the same in basic fighting power. It's also mentioned that Kaito is a rash idiot who got too curious to see Pitou's strength before realizing he was already caught within his En, so he was essentially mincemeat to Pitou.

Evidence on Kaito:

All we know for sure about Kaito is:

-He is weaker than Pitou by a sizeable margin, enough that Pitou without a hatsu was still stronger then Kaito with a 'good number' and left Pitou virtually woundless. Novu and Morel mention that if he had any idea Pitou was already targeting him, he would have ran.
-He was stronger than all the Squad Leaders before they learned Nen, and stronger then Gon and Killua before their training
-His hatsu is fickle and encumbers him about as much as it empowers him, while Knuckle's is in fact quite useful all the time.
-His base physical ability is roughly the same as Knuckle's

All this seems to mean that your original estimates are grossly off on Kaito. Simply being Ging's student doesnt warrant putting him so high, in fact my first impression were always that Kaito was at best, an average hunter.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-21-2013, 02:30 AM
1 - Like I said, if it wasn't something related to fighting skills, then why the difference was so huge between Illumi and the Zodiac in comparison to other Pro-Hunters ? Hisoka is always in search of strong people, the more reasonable thing should be that he was measuring some power-related thing wasn't ?

2 - Don't know what are you trying to prove besides the fact that the Zodiac weren't involved probably cause they were spread around the world. I only said that Netero stated Morau and Novu as the best of the best and we know that they aren't soooo apart from the likes of Ryodan. I'm not saying that since Netero said that about Extermination Team he was actually ranking them above Zodiac or anything, but it's some hint about how Netero's underlings aren't always thaaaat great.

3 - Well, I don't see you pointing any real argument about Kaito being at the same level of those two, since there was needed the effort of both Knuckle and Shoot to capture a brainless Kaito, the only thing we can consider is Gon statement about their basic fighting skills - which I explained that excludes their Hatsu, while we know Knuckle's one doesn't amplify his fighting abilities nor his aura at all. You answer by saying that it's useful all the time - and I agree, but it doesn't implie at all that his Hatsu somehow would put him side-to-side against Kaito which even with his worst number possible yet has always a increase in his fighting power when using it.

FerreiraDaSilva
02-24-2013, 01:41 AM
Well, thanks to the current discussion I'm thinking about:

Royal Guard ups to A+

Cut the 'Average/Top Zodiac' stuff and let all of them at A- for now (they were separated at Top Zodiac at A- and Average Zodiac at B+)

Kaito discussion stills in development - I think he belongs to the same place as Extermination Team, but in case of lowering him where he should go ? B+ is fine ?

Keep writing your ideas here folks ! (:

Rob
03-08-2013, 02:41 AM
Where are Shoot and Knuckle!?

Magister
03-08-2013, 07:09 AM
Shoot and Knuckle should be below Morel, but slightly above Gon and Killua, though given their growth they could just as easily be equal. Im thinking B-B+

Shoot and Knuckle use that strategy when fighting opponents they clearly have no idea about. And they wanted to capture him for Gon. Cheetu fought Knuckle and Morel without even knowing Nen, does that mean he's stronger then them? No. Just because they chose to use that particular strategy to capture Kaito does not make him stronger then them, they had to 1. Learn Pitou's Conditions placed on the Corpses 2. Cancel His Hatsu 3. Bring him back in one piece for Gon, so they clearly didnt fight to kill him. I'd say B. Given that he assumed he could kill the entire Chimera Ant population before they learned Nen/Pitou showed up.

Gon and Killua are stronger then all of the Officer Ants( because they killed them all) , and aside from maybe Zazan and Leol, they were stronger then the other Squadron Leaders (mostly because their were only 4 left by the end...). So i'd put them at a solid B

FerreiraDaSilva
03-08-2013, 09:24 PM
You're sayng Shoot for B- and Knucle for B+ ? Or you're suggesting that both could be at B- ~ B+ ?


Due to the current B tier members you really think Gon and Killua belong to B ? Above the likes of Kurapica and Hanzo and among Gotoh, Kastro (and possible Kaito, which can be changed to B as well) ?

On B+ I put a 'Top Squadron-Leader' group, you think only Zazan and Leol belong to this group ? Maybe Cheetu as well ?

Magister
03-15-2013, 07:34 PM
Shoot and Knuckle are most likely B- with Gon, Killua and Palm, Kaito would be here too

B+ on Zazan because she's the strongest one, Leol is more tactical the strong, he'd be more B- just because his abilities were only as good as the people who stole them from. Kastro never ever seemed even remotely strong, neither did Gotoh, they were likely C+ at best. Cheetu only had his speed going for him, and all his abilities were built to play around. maybe C+

FerreiraDaSilva
03-20-2013, 06:35 PM
Although people misread a lot Hisoka's fights due to his personality which seems he's always playing around, I got the impression that those 2 (Kastro and Gotoh) caused quite the damage when fighting him - more than Gon or Killua could ever do before their development on CA arc.

I could drop Kastro to the likes of Tsezguerra level, but Gotoh is one of the most trusted and important butlers from Zoldyck family, I'd assume that he is one of the strongest as well - a bit above the youngster of the family such as Killua, for me it was implied when he got the mission to take care of him on the current arc. Of course the CA arc was pretty good for both Gon and Killua's growth, but we lack yet some better parameter since they spent most of time struggling against much more powerful people like the Royal Guard to know how good they would get against Hisoka now.

Based on their fights, I could see both Zazan and Leol at B+. Like you said Zazan has more raw power, however she completely lacks any sort of strategy, which could make things even when confronted against Leol. The combination of Cheetu's natural speed plus his Nen abilities makes him difficult to beat, and due to the nature of his Hatsu it'd somehow result in his victory even against people fairly stronger than him. I'd put him on B-.

Since the discussion about Netero and Royal Guards kind of ended, I'll put them together on A+. For now I'll drop Kaito to B too. The other changes about Gon and Killua as well as Shoot, Knucles and the other people on my post deserve a bit more of discussion I think.

Extravlad
07-07-2013, 11:26 PM
Mine is

Tier 1
Meruem post nuke

Tier 2
Meruem pre nuke

Tier 3
Prime Netero

Tier 4
Post training Netero
Prime Maha
Royal Guards


Tier 5
Top 5 nen users (including Gin)
Pre training Netero

Tier 6
Silva
Zeno
Maha
Chrollo?

Tier 7
Morel
Nov
Hisoka
Feitan
Laser
Biscuit

Tier 8
Phinks
Knuckle
Shoot
Kite
Killua
Gon
Nobunaga
Kurapika
Uvogin
Machi
Franklin

FerreiraDaSilva
07-29-2013, 11:40 PM
Don't you think among the Top 5 nen users there are people as strong as Silva, Lucifer and maybe Razor as well ? I guess currently Zeno was the one closest to Netero, still above the strongest youngsters.

I think Gon, Killua, Shoot and Knucles aren't at Ryodan fighting oriented members' level yet.. maybe after all the improvement at CA arc, but I'd still give them Gotoh/Kastroh level, a bit above perhaps - able to give a descent injury to the likes of Hisoka, but still out of his league.

Brohan
08-01-2013, 12:29 PM
Knuckle would beat hisoka

Dayum
08-01-2013, 04:00 PM
No he wouldn't but Knuckle is definitely above Gotoh and Kastro. Phantom Troupe are terribly overrated.

FerreiraDaSilva
08-01-2013, 05:38 PM
I really doubt Knuckle would be able to beat Hisoka, but why he'd be definitely above Gotoh and Kastro ? The dude is generally at Gon's ballpark which could be killed by Hisoka countless times without the need of the weird moves he used against those two, just his overall Nen proficiency should be enough.

Well, of course Gon improved a lot since his struggles against Hisoka, but we don't know exactly wether he'd give him more trouble than someone like Gotoh.

And the matter about the Ryodan members, how would you place them so ? I guess most of them are still above the likes of Gon/Killua etc.

Magister
08-01-2013, 06:00 PM
First off Kastro and Gotoh were clearly not in the same league as Hisoka, and their nen showed it, he beat them once he began using Bungee Gum, after they'd shown off their moves numerous time. While Nen can allow people of vastly different power levels to fight, they were clearly always below Hisoka

I agree the Ryodan members are far too high, Chrollo, Phinxs, Feitan and Uvogin are somewhat where they should be, but the others are obviously far below them in terms of power (or whatever this list is measuring). Considering where Gon and Killua are now, i'd say Shalnark, Kortopi, Shizuku and Kalluto are below them, considering that Gon and Killua murdered several of the officers before getting their new Hatsu, which are what the weaker members fought.

FerreiraDaSilva
08-01-2013, 07:20 PM
First off Kastro and Gotoh were clearly not in the same league as Hisoka, and their nen showed it, he beat them once he began using Bungee Gum, after they'd shown off their moves numerous time. While Nen can allow people of vastly different power levels to fight, they were clearly always below Hisoka

Of course they weren't, the matter is wether Gon and Killua (Kcunckles and Shoot too) could display better feats against Hisoka than those two.


I agree the Ryodan members are far too high, Chrollo, Phinxs, Feitan and Uvogin are somewhat where they should be, but the others are obviously far below them in terms of power (or whatever this list is measuring).

Where do you would place Franky, Nobunaga, Machi and Bonolenov, ?


Considering where Gon and Killua are now, i'd say Shalnark, Kortopi, Shizuku and Kalluto are below them, considering that Gon and Killua murdered several of the officers before getting their new Hatsu, which are what the weaker members fought.

While I agree those members are the weakest ones, I don't remember where we could get confirmation about wether those chimera officers they fought had Hatsu or not. Shalnark had match up trouble actually, his Autopilot seemed quite overkill.

Dayum
08-02-2013, 03:36 AM
I really doubt Knuckle would be able to beat Hisoka, but why he'd be definitely above Gotoh and Kastro ? The dude is generally at Gon's ballpark which could be killed by Hisoka countless times without the need of the weird moves he used against those two, just his overall Nen proficiency should be enough.

Gon is not on Knuckle's level. Where do you get that from? Kastro was a very unskilled nen user. Please don't bring databooks into this. He showed no real skill, physical strength, and obviously his hatsu was crap. Gotoh was strong but Knuckle gets the benefit of the doubt since he fights more often.


Well, of course Gon improved a lot since his struggles against Hisoka, but we don't know exactly wether he'd give him more trouble than someone like Gotoh.

So you're downplaying Knuckle solely because you're using Gon as a reference? He beat Gon soundly. He didn't actually need to use Potclean on him but he wanted to give him a chance to improve since time ran out. Gon improved mostly tactically and aura amount after his training against Knuckle. His base strength and Hatsu didn't grow tremendously in that month.


And the matter about the Ryodan members, how would you place them so ? I guess most of them are still above the likes of Gon/Killua etc.

I don't see what puts most of them above Killua at this point. With Kanmaru very few characters can take Killua in CQC. Besides Chrollo he could kill any at this point if they have no knowledge. Only Feitan and maybe Nobunaga, if his Hatsu makes him faster than Killua, have a chance with knowledge. Killua somewhat solo'd Yupi. Place Phinx, Machi, Franklin, even Ubo in Yupi's place and they're fucked. He could probably take any of the others with a more conservative use of his Hatsu and his base strength. There is a reason they trusted Gon&Killua to deal with Pitou. As a team they were strong enough.

Magister
08-03-2013, 08:59 PM
Gon is not on Knuckle's level. Where do you get that from? Kastro was a very unskilled nen user. Please don't bring databooks into this. He showed no real skill, physical strength, and obviously his hatsu was crap. Gotoh was strong but Knuckle gets the benefit of the doubt since he fights more often.

So you're downplaying Knuckle solely because you're using Gon as a reference? He beat Gon soundly. He didn't actually need to use Potclean on him but he wanted to give him a chance to improve since time ran out. Gon improved mostly tactically and aura amount after his training against Knuckle. His base strength and Hatsu didn't grow tremendously in that month.


I don't see what puts most of them above Killua at this point. With Kanmaru very few characters can take Killua in CQC. Besides Chrollo he could kill any at this point if they have no knowledge. Only Feitan and maybe Nobunaga, if his Hatsu makes him faster than Killua, have a chance with knowledge. Killua somewhat solo'd Yupi. Place Phinx, Machi, Franklin, even Ubo in Yupi's place and they're fucked. He could probably take any of the others with a more conservative use of his Hatsu and his base strength. There is a reason they trusted Gon&Killua to deal with Pitou. As a team they were strong enough.

Well Gon did improve in physical strength and Hatsu, he did pick up a tree and create a blast of air wide enough that the Bat could not avoid. He also seemed to increase the range of his Paper, as well as his Rock throwing Owl Man clear out of the area, it was much stronger then when he used it on Rammot. I would conjecture that at least, Knuckle and Gon are at the same level now. Gon being more destructive though.

And if you want to base this on feats, Gon and KIllua are stronger then the Genei Ryodan except for Chrollo, Uvo, Phinxs, Hisoka, and maybe Feitan. They have showed greater amounts of physical strength, speed, endurance, and destructive potential. So yes everyone except maybe those people need to be lower than Gon and Killua.

FerreiraDaSilva
08-04-2013, 02:34 AM
How would you exactly place Gon/Killua/Knuckle/Shoot in comparison to Ryodan ?

Right now, the top members from the group are at A- level, while average (actually, people without many feats) members are at B+. Gon and the others are at B-.

We should drop all the Ryodan ? Bump Gon's group ?

smokerr
08-04-2013, 05:27 AM
hmm we dont have enough intel on some of the people and what about the champions living on the very top of the battle buildings ( I'm guessing they are strong since Hisoka went there for a challenge, but we never saw the top members there)

Magister
08-05-2013, 12:47 AM
Drop them down, i'd say to the same level, if I was being generous.

Given that Kastro was a favorite for the Tower and lived on the 200th floor, I'd say they were only about a rank stronger than him, but would be nothing compared to the Hunters

smokerr
08-05-2013, 03:23 AM
Well Kastro wasnt the best and I'm sure the gap between him and the master at battle olympia is huge

Dayum
08-05-2013, 05:54 PM
Well Gon did improve in physical strength and Hatsu, he did pick up a tree and create a blast of air wide enough that the Bat could not avoid. He also seemed to increase the range of his Paper, as well as his Rock throwing Owl Man clear out of the area, it was much stronger then when he used it on Rammot. I would conjecture that at least, Knuckle and Gon are at the same level now. Gon being more destructive though.

And if you want to base this on feats, Gon and KIllua are stronger then the Genei Ryodan except for Chrollo, Uvo, Phinxs, Hisoka, and maybe Feitan. They have showed greater amounts of physical strength, speed, endurance, and destructive potential. So yes everyone except maybe those people need to be lower than Gon and Killua.

At the start of the series Killua could push open a 16 ton door. Gon threw that tile at Hisoka. Killua after the CA can open the level 5(64 ton door). Picking up a tree and creating a big gust of wind can't be said to be something they couldn't do before the ant arc. He didn't display any muscle feats against against Rammot so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Knuckle we know was barely using nen and was still almost knocking Gon unconscious with his blows. Gon is definitely more descriptive but overall Knuckle still has speed and muscle on his side.

Feitan has better feats and hype than Phinx. There is a reason they chose him as the leader. Bonolelove, Franklin, and Machi should be on par or above Gon at least. Nobonaga is the only fighter Gon gets the benefit of the doubt against just because he failed too much on panel.

FerreiraDaSilva
08-15-2013, 04:48 PM
Concerning Ryodan members:

Chrolo Lucifer: currently at A (bump ? drop ? let him this way ?).

Hisoka, Feitan, Sphinx, Uvogin: currently at A- (bump ? drop ? let them this way ?)

Frankly, Nobunaga and Machi: currently at B+ (bump ? drop ? let them this way ?)

Shalnark, Shizuku, Kortopi, Bonolenov, Pakunoda and Kalluto: no placement yet.


As comparison: Gon, Killua, Knuckle and Shoot are at B- (you can argument about wether bump them instead of drop Ryodan members as well).

My opinion:

I can see the likes of Gon and Killua a notch above the non-fighting oriented members such as Shizuku, Pakunoda and Kortopi. The junior member Kalluto should be below them as well. For Shalnark and Bonolenov I'd like to give the benefit of doubt to at least being at Gon and Killua's level.

I believe they aren't at Nobunaga/Frank/Machi level, but we don't even now exactly where they are truly placed in comparison to guys like Feitan or Sphinx.

- - - Updated - - -


Given that Kastro was a favorite for the Tower and lived on the 200th floor, I'd say they were only about a rank stronger than him, but would be nothing compared to the Hunters

Kastro was a favorite to the public, which thought he could stand a chance against Hisoka. They obviously has zero knowledge about Nen and stuff so it isn't the best parameter for wether other masters could be stronger or not.

Still, I have the impression people underrate Hisoka's opponents due to his personality. He was toying with Kastro ? Gotoh ? Indeed, but I have the feeling he would 'play' with his foe even if it was Lucifer.

Donquixote Doflamingo
08-15-2013, 06:52 PM
Killua is way,way to low. Should be B+ easily. His speed is to high for even the Royal Guards to deal with, and his attack power is respectable. He can fight on the same level as Squadron Leaders. Not to mention he was implied to be stronger then Illumi, and i believe the databook put him on the same level as Morel.

Gon, shoot, and Knuckle need to go up as well to at least B.

pizzadust
08-15-2013, 08:58 PM
Killua is way,way to low. Should be B+ easily. His speed is to high for even the Royal Guards to deal with, and his attack power is respectable. He can fight on the same level as Squadron Leaders. Not to mention he was implied to be stronger then Illumi, and i believe the databook put him on the same level as Morel.

Gon, shoot, and Knuckle need to go up as well to at least B.

gon, Shoot, Knuckle, and Killua were all ranked equally on Togashi's powerchart(doesn't take hatsu into account).

FerreiraDaSilva
08-15-2013, 10:16 PM
Don't believe Killua has reached even Biscuit level's yet, he's way out of Morau's league.

However I can give that they could be bumped.. just wait and see other people's opinion.

FerreiraDaSilva
08-15-2013, 11:13 PM
Gon is not on Knuckle's level. Where do you get that from? Kastro was a very unskilled nen user. Please don't bring databooks into this. He showed no real skill, physical strength, and obviously his hatsu was crap. Gotoh was strong but Knuckle gets the benefit of the doubt since he fights more often.

Kncuckle is stronger than Gon indeed, however the high tier is wider than top tier, don't think Knuckle was meant to be considered in a whole other level from Gon. I can see Knuckle in a opposing end of the same tier as Gon at best.

Kastro wasn't unskilled, quite the contrary: he was able to caught Hisoka off guard at least twice while using a technique subpar to his own abilities. And don't know from where you took this benefit of the doubt thing over Gotoh, standing against Hisoka still is more impressive than being somewhat stronger than Gon - at least until we have a better grasp about Gon's current performance against someone at Hisoka's level.


I don't see what puts most of them above Killua at this point. With Kanmaru very few characters can take Killua in CQC. Besides Chrollo he could kill any at this point if they have no knowledge. Only Feitan and maybe Nobunaga, if his Hatsu makes him faster than Killua, have a chance with knowledge.

I'm sure that with properly knowledge many members besides those two would find a way to deal with Godspeed - even without knowledge or a counter technique they should at least endure enough for Killua to run out of gas.


Killua somewhat solo'd Yupi. Place Phinx, Machi, Franklin, even Ubo in Yupi's place and they're fucked. He could probably take any of the others with a more conservative use of his Hatsu and his base strength. There is a reason they trusted Gon&Killua to deal with Pitou. As a team they were strong enough.

Solo'd Yupi ? No way man. He was at best a nuisance to him - of course he would deal more serious injuries to any Ryodan member since all of them are obviously are way weaker than Yupi, but Killua doesn't have yet the capacity to stand in Godspeed mode for so long to genuinely defeat almost any Ryodan member as you're stating. At best critically injuring some average members and actually defeating lower members.

pizzadust
08-16-2013, 01:13 AM
Don't believe Killua has reached even Biscuit level's yet, he's way out of Morau's league.

However I can give that they could be bumped.. just wait and see other people's opinion.

Biscuit has better stats than Hisoka.

Donquixote Doflamingo
08-16-2013, 02:46 AM
Don't believe Killua has reached even Biscuit level's yet, he's way out of Morau's league.

However I can give that they could be bumped.. just wait and see other people's opinion.

Pretty sure Biscuit>Morel.

Tom
08-16-2013, 02:54 AM
Maybe in pure nen proficiency, but I think Morel would win in a deathmatch.

Game Master
08-16-2013, 03:00 AM
Just a sec here... The OP isnt updated, and it's not well made... I dont get how Netero Isnt even in the S or S+ class...

- - - Updated - - -

And Gon at the end of the Manga after he transformed he was stronger than Neferiptou... So this needs TONS of updating... Including Killua after his blitzing... Tons of stuff to be corrected here

And just a reminder... Neferipitou said herself that his power would be on par with the king (after he transformed and 1 hit KOed her)

- - - Updated - - -

Also, instead of comas, put them each in a new line, that way it's more organized and people dont miss reading a name

Dayum
08-16-2013, 03:49 PM
Kncuckle is stronger than Gon indeed, however the high tier is wider than top tier, don't think Knuckle was meant to be considered in a whole other level from Gon. I can see Knuckle in a opposing end of the same tier as Gon at best.

Tiers are hard to gauge in HxH. What exactly is the difference between being in the same tier and a sub tier higher?


Kastro wasn't unskilled, quite the contrary: he was able to caught Hisoka off guard at least twice while using a technique subpar to his own abilities. And don't know from where you took this benefit of the doubt thing over Gotoh, standing against Hisoka still is more impressive than being somewhat stronger than Gon - at least until we have a better grasp about Gon's current performance against someone at Hisoka's level.

Hisoka was literally playing with Kastro the entire fight. Hisoka was playing so much he even let his arms be severed. Machi made that perfectly clear at the end of the fight how much he was holding back.

Except he dominated Gon and we have no way of gauging how much Gon improved during the Chimera ant arc. His growth is completely ambiguous as all he really did before transforming was take out a fodder group of ants and run at Youpi. Knuckle during the ant arc did nothing but fight. His stamina alone is only surpassed by Morel, and obviously Netero, in that arc among the humans. He absolutely gets the benefit of the doubt over Gotoh. You're trying to argue that what Gotoh did took more power&skill than Knuckles long list of battles in a single arc? Again, more Spider/Hisoka ranking.


I'm sure that with properly knowledge many members besides those two would find a way to deal with Godspeed - even without knowledge or a counter technique they should at least endure enough for Killua to run out of gas.

So when you can't actually make an argument you just make assumptions? Killua clearly held his own against Youpi and Pufu. That is how powerful of a technique Godspeed is. He was expected to handle Pitou alongside Gon. How are normal humans supposed to endure Godspeed? Killua isn't so physically weak to them any longer that they can handle getting pierced by his claws or survive hits from his electrified Yo-Yo. They'd be critically injured by his base Yo-Yo. The Spider's bodies are not more durable than Chimera Ants he was eventually able to tear apart and if he can shock Youpi no Spider is going to be able to move.


Solo'd Yupi ? No way man. He was at best a nuisance to him - of course he would deal more serious injuries to any Ryodan member since all of them are obviously are way weaker than Yupi, but Killua doesn't have yet the capacity to stand in Godspeed mode for so long to genuinely defeat almost any Ryodan member as you're stating. At best critically injuring some average members and actually defeating lower members.

Explain to me how the endure Godspeed before he runs out. All he has to do is run up, stun, and stab/Yo-Yo. He even shot up Pufu who only survived because of the nature of his own Hatsu. You're argument basically comes down to placing the Spiders on a pedestal and randomly assuming they can deal with Killua because they are the Spiders. No real argument has to be made, simply being a spider is enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. That is an extremely poor way to argue, especially in this series. The last arc makes the point that Killua is strong enough that Illumi could not easily defeat him any longer and Killua himself was serious about murdering Illumi even if it meant going against the family. Killua doesn't make idle threats.

pizzadust
08-19-2013, 05:50 AM
Killua,Gon,Knuckle and Shoot should all be in class B. Gon said that Knucle has the same physical strength as Kaito and he has a hax abillity. Shoot is about equal to Knuckle, and Killua has an OP hatsu. Gon is statistically about equal to Killua, and has the abillity to transform into his adult self. We should either put adult Gon in a tier or move him up with the rest of the people I mentioned.

Edit:
Dayum, the powercharts were created to show just how strong the main characters are(without hatsu). We can use that to determine how much stronger Gon and Killua's base stats have grown.

Blackleg Zoro
12-30-2013, 06:00 AM
Netero should be in the same tier as the king or a sub tier below him.

FerreiraDaSilva
01-14-2014, 12:40 PM
Just a sec here... The OP isnt updated, and it's not well made... I dont get how Netero Isnt even in the S or S+ class...

Netero was no way close to Meruem, it was implied that he couldn't even pass through the Royal Guard, however with his performance against Pitou I initially placed them in the same tier. Actually some people in the thread advocates for him to be below the Royal Guard as well.
- - - Updated - - -


And Gon at the end of the Manga after he transformed he was stronger than Neferiptou... So this needs TONS of updating... Including Killua after his blitzing... Tons of stuff to be corrected here

And just a reminder... Neferipitou said herself that his power would be on par with the king (after he transformed and 1 hit KOed her)

I was not taking in consideration that version which stomped Pitou cause it obivously will not be the level we'll see once he recovers. But we could place him in the tier list, where you'd put him ?
- - - Updated - - -


Also, instead of comas, put them each in a new line, that way it's more organized and people dont miss reading a name

I'll do this.

Heracles
01-14-2014, 01:04 PM
i would place prime netero in S

he stated that he only has half his power compared to him 50-60 years ago


and i think "end of current manga" killua can defeat kastro

godspeed is a technique that makes him the fastest in hxh verse

FerreiraDaSilva
01-14-2014, 01:28 PM
Tiers are hard to gauge in HxH. What exactly is the difference between being in the same tier and a sub tier higher?

I guess we should discuss this matter before arbitrary making a draft list like I first did, still we could use the list as food for thought - how you'd classify each tier (and subtiers within) ?



Hisoka was literally playing with Kastro the entire fight. Hisoka was playing so much he even let his arms be severed. Machi made that perfectly clear at the end of the fight how much he was holding back.

Wether Hisoka was holding back or not, his fighting style is composed mostly by jokes and tricks, so it wasn't necessarily a stomp as it always sounds when it comes to him.


Except he dominated Gon and we have no way of gauging how much Gon improved during the Chimera ant arc. His growth is completely ambiguous as all he really did before transforming was take out a fodder group of ants and run at Youpi. Knuckle during the ant arc did nothing but fight. His stamina alone is only surpassed by Morel, and obviously Netero, in that arc among the humans. He absolutely gets the benefit of the doubt over Gotoh. You're trying to argue that what Gotoh did took more power&skill than Knuckles long list of battles in a single arc? Again, more Spider/Hisoka ranking.

Knuckle passed the arc fighting relatively fodder ants and striving to survive against the top dogs, his best legitimate feat would be the rescue of Kaito's body. Being the third or fourth in stamina/physical stats among the humans in Chimera Ants arc only says how they were average weak. He just wasn't played around by Yupi because 1) he had assistance from Morel and the others almost their entire clash 2) the Royal Guard while a monster was still discovering his own capacities 3) Youpi was emotionally speaking the inconsistent type. I'd not be shocked if against a trickster, manipulator dude such as Hisoka he'd put less of a fight than Gotoh did.




So when you can't actually make an argument you just make assumptions? Killua clearly held his own against Youpi and Pufu. That is how powerful of a technique Godspeed is. He was expected to handle Pitou alongside Gon. How are normal humans supposed to endure Godspeed? Killua isn't so physically weak to them any longer that they can handle getting pierced by his claws or survive hits from his electrified Yo-Yo. They'd be critically injured by his base Yo-Yo. The Spider's bodies are not more durable than Chimera Ants he was eventually able to tear apart and if he can shock Youpi no Spider is going to be able to move.

I'm not making baseless assumptions. Killua and Gon was expected to handle Pitou together exactly because their abilities were ridiculously complementary: Gon has above average raw power, while Killua has top tier speed indeed. We don't have much to grasp about his offense though - as far as we know Machi wasn't meant to be Ryodan's physical oriented member and still was able to stop Killuas claws with her torax alone - of course he improved by a huge amount but I don't believe he has a powerful enough offense to take out the most physical oriented fighters. The other more hax/technical members could be blitzed in a head on fight, but could have some setting able to hold him as well: Machi's strings could be setted for restrict his area of action, Nobunaga is supposed to be aware of anything inside his sword's range, and so on.

Judgement
01-15-2014, 03:50 AM
Silva,Ging, 2-3 Zodiac members and No Nen Hanzo would be SS+ tier because Poor mans Cell would get fodderized by all of them 1vs1.

Phoenix
06-01-2014, 06:13 AM
God Tier
Post- Nuke Mereum


A+
Pre- Nuke Mereum
Netero
Adult Gon



A
Pitou
Yupi
Pouf
Ging?


A-
Hisoka
Silva

I'll post the rest tommorow. Also, where should we place Alluka? She may not be that strong in terms of combat skills, but she has the most hax nen in the series (so far). A+?

Rob
06-01-2014, 06:14 AM
It's almost just too hard to even rank them properly.

This is actually a good thing.

Sleepah
06-01-2014, 06:18 AM
Illumi's ability is hax as tits too
his needles don't seem to have any limits or restrictions. He can change shapes, mind control, and just flat out completely puppeteer multiple targets.

- - - Updated - - -

Also that phatnom troupe form the movie, Omokage? he was pretty strong.

Rax
06-01-2014, 06:21 AM
This new dude that went to the Dark Continent is probably > Mereum.

Sleepah
06-01-2014, 06:24 AM
Beyond?

i don't think there is much info on him yet

DoflaMihawk
06-01-2014, 11:56 AM
Why is Meruem in with Netero? Didn't you see their fight? :mihawk

Bold
06-01-2014, 03:49 PM
:hmm

Just so you know...

http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?8771-Hunter-x-Hunter-Tier-List

Fabulous
06-01-2014, 04:07 PM
Adult Gon> Netero. He's more equal with the royal guard.

Rob
06-01-2014, 06:01 PM
I think Rax is talking about Brion.

DoflaMihawk
06-01-2014, 06:40 PM
For starters, make a tier between A+ and God Tier, and put pre-nuke Meruem and Adult Gon in that tier. Then move the RG up to A+.

Y
06-01-2014, 06:56 PM
Mine would look something like this.

S+
Post-Nuke Mereum

S
Pre-Nuke Meruem
Adult Gon

A+
Isaac Netero (Post Training)
Pitou
Youpi
Pouf

A
Isaac Netero (Pre Training)
Ging
Pariston(?)
Beyond Netero(?)
Zeno


A-
Chrollo
Hisoka
Silva
Illumi
Morel
Kurapika (Emperor Time)

B+
Kite
Uvogin
Feitan
Nobunaga
Machi

B
Knov
CA Palm
Killua
Gon

DoflaMihawk
06-01-2014, 06:59 PM
^ Pretty good. I'd move up Chrollo and Silva one tier.

The Shogun of Shoguns
06-02-2014, 12:50 AM
Mine would look something like this.

S+
Post-Nuke Mereum

S
Pre-Nuke Meruem
Adult Gon

A+
Isaac Netero (Post Training)
Beyond Netero(?)
Pitou
Youpi
Pouf

A
Isaac Netero (Pre Training)
Ging
Silva
Pariston(?)
Zeno
Razer

A-
Chrollo
Hisoka
Illumi
Morel
Kurapika (Emperor Time)
Uvogin
Feitan
Kite


B+
Nobunaga
Genthru (Bomber)
Machi
Tsezguerra

B
Knov
CA Palm
Killua
Gon

FerreiraDaSilva
06-03-2014, 01:45 AM
http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?8771-Hunter-x-Hunter-Tier-List - some moderator could merge both threads, or at least move the original to SoM too.

Sure it has a lot to be updated and discussed, but it covers a good amount of HxH characters.

The Shogun of Shoguns
06-03-2014, 01:36 PM
I'd say Netero post-training is above Pouf, Pitou and Youpi.
I doubt they could survive multiple hits from Netero, especially something like Zero hand.

Also Meruem had some very good fighting IQ, he was a calculating fighter.
So Netero is 100% above the RG, it's just he wouldn't be able to fight them all 3 at once.

So they wanted Netero to save his aura and take the King on when Netero is at 100%.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-03-2014, 03:59 PM
I'd say Netero post-training is above Pouf, Pitou and Youpi.

I also believe he was stronger than Royal Guards (if you see the earlier posts I even advocated for him to be a tier apart from them), but he didn't gave me the vibe of being so dominant over the group as someone like Adult Gon, which would still be no match for Meruem as well.


I doubt they could survive multiple hits from Netero, especially something like Zero hand.

Zero Hand was heavily implied to be Netero's last recurse, one shot which basically dries the life out of his body.


Also Meruem had some very good fighting IQ, he was a calculating fighter.
So Netero is 100% above the RG, it's just he wouldn't be able to fight them all 3 at once.

What is the matter ?! Are you implying that if not by Meruem smartness he would've a hard time against Netero ?! Chairman's ultimate move barely made some scratch on him, at the very best Meruem would be more annoyed if he couldn't comprehend well Netero's techniques.

Also, we have zero reason to believe the statement about Netero's aura not being on RG level to be actually referring to all Royal Guards at once.

As much as Netero has the hype of being the only living thing able to make a scratch on Meruem, all that he did to Pitou was to push her away while the Royal Guard tanked blows from the King itself with more killing intention than what he used on the Chairman. I'd not outright say that Netero and RG don't belong to the same tier.

Brohan
06-03-2014, 04:55 PM
If not for Meruem's intelligence, Netero would just kept smacking him away, probably until either he eventually died, or Netero ran out of stamina ,ie a hard time pretty much. Meruem would get the benefit of the doubt obviously, since his aura pool would still be larger allowing him to outlast Netero.

The manga made it expressly clear it would take being able to analyze Netero's millions of combos, to prevent from being repeatedly squashed by him.

As for my top tier list, it would go something like this:

S+

Super Perfect Meruem

S

Meruem
Adult Gon

S-

Netero

A+

Pitou
Youpi
Pouf

Meruem is above Gon, since even though they're equals in terms of aura and power, Meruem is still a more capable fighter by far, and would win a fight between them more often than not.

Netero is on a level all his own, that much was made clear. He has the best Hatsu in the series, and has a set of abilities that will prevent probably any other character from beating him, if they aren't durable enough to withstand his offense.

And the RG a notch below him, with Pitou being the strongest overall. Though it's hard to rank them internally, they all have very verstile powersets and strengths.

After the ridiculously powerful top tier, tiering up characters is pretty impossible, HxH fights are very situational and matchup based.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-03-2014, 06:21 PM
If not for Meruem's intelligence, Netero would just kept smacking him away, probably until either he eventually died, or Netero ran out of stamina ,ie a hard time pretty much. Meruem would get the benefit of the doubt obviously, since his aura pool would still be larger allowing him to outlast Netero.

Meruem wasn't even trying to actually counter Netero. Mostly because more than simply overwhelm him the King wanted to understand Netero's skills and defeat him in his own game. It's not like it would be impossible to surpass it by overwhelming strength alone, and we know for Pitou's tanking feats that Royal Guards would have a good chance of doing this.


After the ridiculously powerful top tier, tiering up characters is pretty impossible, HxH fights are very situational and matchup based.

There are still a decent number of characters which are noticeable above others generally speaking (by hype, feats, stats, portrayal), such as Zeno, Silva, Lucifer, Ging, Razor. Also, although match up issues are very important in HxH, Togashi makes very clear when it's the case - like Uvogin being clearly one of the strongest Enhancers of the series and the physically strongest Ryodan and still being defeated by Kurapika.

There were a lot of discussion (still undecided) concerning speculation about Ryodan members position in the list, current Killua/ Gon and more. It would be good to create more substantial mark point between one tier to another as well and stuff like this.

DoflaMihawk
06-03-2014, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't put Netero a sub-tier above the RG. Netero only managed to knock Pitou back, didn't even hurt her. It's like saying Marco is a level above Kizaru because he was able to kick him away.

Brohan
06-03-2014, 11:24 PM
Then he would just keep hitting her over and over until she dies. Pitou is no Meruem, so countering Netero wouldn't be realistically possible for her at all.

Same goes for Youpi and Pouf pretty much, the old man was really on a level all his own.

DoflaMihawk
06-03-2014, 11:39 PM
Then he would just keep hitting her over and over until she dies. Pitou is no Meruem, so countering Netero wouldn't be realistically possible for her at all.

You can't really know that.

Netero is no Meruem either.

Brohan
06-04-2014, 10:00 AM
Netero's first chop drew blood from Meruem. It's pretty safe to say that if Pitou was hit with millions of attacks that could damage Meruem, she would die, pretty easily too.

He might have not actually done any damage when he did palm her, but his objective was to push her away, evidenced by, well everything that came after. He may be no Meruem himself, but all signs point toward Netero being above the Royal Guard by a huge margin.

He doesn't have to be able to one shot Pitou to be placed above the Royal Guard, he just has to be able to win in a fight, which always will.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-04-2014, 05:16 PM
Netero's first chop drew blood from Meruem. It's pretty safe to say that if Pitou was hit with millions of attacks that could damage Meruem, she would die, pretty easily too.

This statement ignores a lot of uncertain things.

First of all, it's not like Meruem couldn't simply overwhelm Netero if he wasn't interested by chairman's skills polished by more than a century - most likely scenario he could simply go for the throat and insta-kill him. Saying that Netero's ability is impossible to counter without comprehend it is false unless you're suggesting Meruem was able to read his moves after seeing it twice.

Having said that, it's not like Pitou or Pouf wouldn't be able to take a grasp of Netero's techniques anyway. Pouf was implied to be the most analytical and intelligent Royal Guard, while Pitou was decent versed in most combat skills overall. Pouf doesn't seems as durable as Pitou, but would find the pattern in Netero's blows faster, while Pitou although less smart could be able to endure enough.

On top of that, all Royal Guard have top notch Nen basics (Ten, Zetsu, Ren and Hatsu) sharpened by their wild instincts. Even Youpi being the less versatile had the most raw power, and was almost unstoppable. I really can't see Netero being on a whole other level from them. Except by Zero Fist it's not that we know for sure wether he compares to them, but the safer route seems to place the 4 together.

Brohan
06-04-2014, 06:35 PM
To not be squashed by Netero, you would need to be able to find holes in his offense, among literally millions of combos, all in the fraction of a second, while staying absolutely calm and cool to do so. Meruem made that clear. And he might have not been trying to kill Netero, but he WAS trying to attack him, which he was unable to do at all for a while because of Netero's air tight defense and speed, interest in his skill or not.

No other character could do what Meruem did, at least not from what we've been shown. Most certainly not his Royal Guard, who are not only incapable of seeing Netero's bias in his combos, but also can percieve less of his hand movements than Meruem can.

Pouf would be destroyed, no two ways about it, he's not durable enough, or cool enough to stay calm while getting punched around. Pitou could barely see Netero move at all. Pitou and Youpi probably have the durability to withstand being killed instantly, but there's absolutely no evidence either could get past his offense.

Meruem is beyond just analytical like Pitou or Pouf, his intelligence is on a whole other level, and HE even took while to get past Netero.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-04-2014, 08:49 PM
To not be squashed by Netero, you would need to be able to find holes in his offense, among literally millions of combos, all in the fraction of a second, while staying absolutely calm and cool to do so. Meruem made that clear. And he might have not been trying to kill Netero, but he WAS trying to attack him, which he was unable to do at all for a while because of Netero's air tight defense and speed, interest in his skill or not.

Meruem was trying to defeat Netero's technique, and what he said was the ability required to counter that. Nothing really confirms that it would be impossible for simply overwhelm that by superior strength alone. If anything the fact that all the complex combination of blows wasn't actually getting any response from Meruem's body suggests that he was simply trying to defeat Netero in his own game without 'cheating'. Just like he could simply kill Komugi but wanted to defeat her at shougi.


No other character could do what Meruem did, at least not from what we've been shown. Most certainly not his Royal Guard, who are not only incapable of seeing Netero's bias in his combos, but also can percieve less of his hand movements than Meruem can.

Netero wasn't able to do shit even when he got the free shot due to Pitou's lack of knowledge and being distracted by a ridiculous short period of time when she turned off her En (which also is the best En we ever saw in the whole series) - it's very possible for he on even ground with Netero to grasp his ability. Pitou was completely fine from Netero's blow and also was able to tank a blow from Meruem meant to kill - I guess that it's not so far fetched to believe it would endure enough against Netero, besides Zero Fist.


Pouf would be destroyed, no two ways about it, he's not durable enough, or cool enough to stay calm while getting punched around. Pitou could barely see Netero move at all. Pitou and Youpi probably have the durability to withstand being killed instantly, but there's absolutely no evidence either could get past his offense.

Pouf although the weakest is the most versatile Royal Guard as well as the smartest. It obvious that his approach would be different than Pitou or Youpi, since he could divide himself in countless smaller versions while analyzing Netero's moves. He doesn't seems to have the fire power to bring Netero down, but has the tools to at the very least stalemate him. His intelligence shouldn't be underestimated since he was able to lure the King himself.

Youpi not only is possibly the most durable and strongest Royal Guard, but also the fact that Netero's blows individually are more of a nuisance than a threat would push his anger even further. He'd most likely become stronger as time passes until Netero's last resource would become Zero Fist, pretty much a suicide technique.


Meruem is beyond just analytical like Pitou or Pouf, his intelligence is on a whole other level, and HE even took while to get past Netero.

You're pretty much accounting that:

- the only way to surpass Netero hatsu is by comprehending it, which isn't outright confirmed anywhere;

- guys such as Pitou and Pouf wouldn't be able to grasp it, despite of Pouf's top notch intelligence and versatility or Pitou's ridiculous En and instincts;

- Pitou and Youpi would be eventually killed (before taking a grasp or outlasting it) by the same technique which did nothing at first to Pitou, who we know has one of (if not the actually) best tanking feats and knowing Youpi is most likely even physically stronger.

Even if Netero is indeed able to defeat the 3 of them, I don't think it would be by a noticeably safe margin such as Adult Gon and don't deserve to be completely separated from them. Netero wondered himself if Pitou couldn't be stronger than him, and even if his one-month training restored a huge amount of his power, he wasn't on his prime anymore and this is it.

Brohan
06-05-2014, 11:33 AM
You're not actually refuting anything I just said though dude.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-06-2014, 05:36 PM
You're not actually refuting anything I just said though dude.

Of course I am. The only thing that I conceded is that Pouf didn't show us anything to bring Netero down, but would be able to at very least stalemate him if not outlast him. He'd also most likely read Netero's moves even earlier than Meruem, since the King only displayed the same level of analysis as Pouf's Spiritual Message post-nucke.

Netero got Pitou by surprise and still did nothing to him. Youpi is most likely even physically stronger. Netero definetely wasn't portrayed to be apart from them. The one advantage he had was the complete mastery of his hatsu and other Nen skills, but he also was superior to Meruem in this aspect and it not prevented him from being defeated.

White
06-07-2014, 12:13 AM
Change S+ to post rose Meruem only and have S as Adult Gon and pre rose Meruem

DoflaMihawk
06-07-2014, 12:17 AM
Just wanted to add that when Meruem hit Pitou with intent to kill, it barely fazed her. When Meruem hit Netero with intent to kill, Meruem cut his arm off.

Just saiyan

White
06-07-2014, 12:20 AM
Intent to kill =/= power behind the attack

DoflaMihawk
06-07-2014, 12:21 AM
You're right, Meruem wasn't even trying to kill Netero, just incapacitate him. But he legit tried to cut Pitou's head off and failed with a clean hit.

White
06-07-2014, 12:34 AM
I suppose that is true, but what you have to remember is that the RG were born with stronger stuff than the humans in HxH. Netero may have not have been born with the same kind of durability and defence as a RG, but he compensated for it with decades of skill and experience that Meruem and the RG never had.

Meruem was hit hundreds and thousands of times before he actually landed a hit on Netero, if their positions were reversed Meruem wouldnt have lasted even a fraction as long as Netero. You cant really compare things like the ants durability to the humans because they will always come out on top

DoflaMihawk
06-07-2014, 05:37 PM
So we agree that Pitou has a higher durability than Netero. One point to me. :D

pizzadust
06-07-2014, 05:56 PM
Netero is stronger than Pitou, I don't think that she could take thousands of attacks from Netero like Mereum did, and even if she could we still don't have any reason to believe she would've been able to figure out his rhythm.

DoflaMihawk
06-07-2014, 05:59 PM
Netero is stronger than Pitou, I don't think that she could take thousands of attacks from Netero like Mereum did, and even if she could we still don't have any reason to believe she would've been able to figure out his rhythm.

I agree. I just don't think he would outright stomp her like Gon did.

pizzadust
06-08-2014, 03:03 AM
I agree. I just don't think he would outright stomp her like Gon did.
Yeah he would, the way they both stomp her is just different. While Gon did it with brute force, Netero will blitz her until she dies.

There's nothing she can do to harm him, and she should be considerably less durable than the king, so I don't think the fight would take too long either. His attacks started to hurt Mereum in less than a minute.

DoflaMihawk
06-08-2014, 05:51 PM
Yeah he would, the way they both stomp her is just different. While Gon did it with brute force, Netero will blitz her until she dies.

There's nothing she can do to harm him, and she should be considerably less durable than the king, so I don't think the fight would take too long either. His attacks started to hurt Mereum in less than a minute.

His attacks were doing nothin at all to Meruem, and his strongest attack only gave him a few bruises.

pizzadust
06-08-2014, 06:01 PM
His attacks were doing nothin at all to Meruem, and his strongest attack only gave him a few bruises.

http://www.mangahere.co/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v28/c296/18.html

It started to effect him. Pitou's durabillity isn't even comparable to Meruem, so I think it's safe to assume she'd get crushed before Netero shows any signs of fatigue.

DoflaMihawk
06-08-2014, 06:06 PM
http://www.mangahere.co/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v28/c296/18.html

It started to effect him. Pitou's durabillity isn't even comparable to Meruem, so I think it's safe to assume she'd get crushed before Netero shows any signs of fatigue.

Yes, after over 100,000 strikes, he started feeling slight pain. Wow.

We can't know how many shots Pitou would take, but obviously she wouldn't use the same strategy the King did. Also, the fact that Netero would be forced to use that giant-Buddha thing against Pitou proves it isn't a stomp, or else he wouldn't need it.

pizzadust
06-08-2014, 06:30 PM
Yes, after over 100,000 strikes, he started feeling slight pain. Wow.

We can't know how many shots Pitou would take, but obviously she wouldn't use the same strategy the King did. Also, the fact that Netero would be forced to use that giant-Buddha thing against Pitou proves it isn't a stomp, or else he wouldn't need it.

Keep in mind that all of that happened in a short amount of time.

We know that the amount of attacks that she can take is far less than the king.There's really nothing Pitou can do to stop him from continuously smashing her, she couldn't even see his full hand movement when he attacked her.

His hatsu is the entire reason why I think it'd be a stomp, but maybe that's not the right word to use. He's far closer to Adult Gon than he is to Pitou, if Meruem wasn't a super genius their fight could've went either way tbh.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-09-2014, 11:39 AM
Based on what people believe that Pitou would never realize how Netero's hatsu works ?! Or that he would be killed before realizing it ?! On that scene when the very same hatsu did shit to him ?! Besides the fact that Pitou got momentarily desperate due to his blind concernment towards the King and completely shut off his En - which was the hugest one we ever saw besides Post-nucke Meruem ?! Why you're so sure he could never read Netero's move by the almost free shot the Chairman hit him without any real response ?!

Come on, Netero wasn't far closer to Adult Gon than Royal Guard level. No way in hell.

DoflaMihawk
06-09-2014, 11:53 AM
There's plenty of things Pitou could do. Maybe stay out of the giant-Buddha's range. Maybe get behind Netero. Maybe not even give Netero a chance to bring the giant Buddha out.

Netero definitely won't have an easy time winning this.

Brohan
06-09-2014, 12:01 PM
Because Meruem barely understood it. I don't think you understand how much smarter and more perceptive he is from his Royal Guard, the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

Pitou isn't getting past Netero's Hatsu, because she hasn't shown the ability to weave through millions of combinations of attacks, the size of her En has nothing to do with her ability to think on that level.

It's really that simple

DoflaMihawk
06-09-2014, 12:04 PM
And you need to prove that Pitou would take the same approach as Meruem, since that's what you're assuming.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-09-2014, 12:21 PM
Because Meruem barely understood it. I don't think you understand how much smarter and more perceptive he is from his Royal Guard, the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

Pitou isn't getting past Netero's Hatsu, because she hasn't shown the ability to weave through millions of combinations of attacks, the size of her En has nothing to do with her ability to think on that level.

It's really that simple

En consists in being aware of anything happening within a determined range - obviously having one of the most impressive we ever saw would help. We don't have an accurate grasp about Meruem's gap smartness-wise to the likes of Pitou or Pouf, but I can give you that it would take longer for someone like Pitou to find out Netero's move, still we have zero reason to believe Pitou would die before it ever happen - not when we saw the same Hatsu doing no damage to him. As far as the overall gap between Meruem and Royal Guards goes, we have no reason to admit the King overwhelmed each one of them in every imaginable area - otherwise there would be no significant boost when he was fed by both Pouf and Youpi. Pitou could be as durable (or very close) as pre-nucke Meruem, just how Youpi could be as physical strong or Pouf smart.

So, although we don't have concrete evidence, it would be very reasonable for Pitou to outlast Netero since he tanked blows from Meruem himself, and wasn't even phased by the Chairman's hatsu.

Brohan
06-09-2014, 01:37 PM
And you need to prove that Pitou would take the same approach as Meruem, since that's what you're assuming.

How else would she approach him? She is a hand to hand fighter.

@ Silva

So what you're saying is, Pitou or Pouf would be able to calculate millions of moves in advance while keeping their cool in order to do so?

They haven't shown that, so they simply cannot. No two ways about it. In fact, Meruem being able to do so was due in part to his Hinging matches with Komugi, which the RG didn't partake in, so they literally would not be able to do anything.

And yes. His stats were far above the RG, them boosting his aura to such a degree had more to do with them being meant to be eaten by Meruem, as it was said.

Sure, she took a tail smack intended to kill her, but it was previously only used to kill fodder, which really only showed that Pitou was stronger than said fodder. And Netero's first chop did hurt Meruem.

Really, you seem to be dealing with abstract feelings while I'm using feats and you admitted you have no proof so this discussion is pointless.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-09-2014, 06:48 PM
@ Silva

So what you're saying is, Pitou or Pouf would be able to calculate millions of moves in advance while keeping their cool in order to do so?

Why not ?! If there's nothing outright stating this there's nothing preventing it from being a possibility as well. All we know is that Pouf has one of the highest IQ's in the whole series, and that Pitou is one of the most durables characters.


They haven't shown that, so they simply cannot. No two ways about it. In fact, Meruem being able to do so was due in part to his Hinging matches with Komugi, which the RG didn't partake in, so they literally would not be able to do anything.

How you are so sure about this ?! The fact that they haven't show this kind of skill only says that they didn't had the opportunity or necessity of displaying said skills against the opponents they faced. Meruem was playing, so it's normal for him to use strategy he learned from somewhere else. He was totally focused in defeating Netero's hatsu and it is a clear fact. You can't say that only strategy game pro-players would be able to do something against Netero because before anything it was Meruem which imposed to himself this challenge.


And yes. His stats were far above the RG, them boosting his aura to such a degree had more to do with them being meant to be eaten by Meruem, as it was said.

What ?! The boost Meruem receives from people he feds upon is strictly related to how much power themselves retained throughout their very lives. What you're claiming with no basis is that Meruem jumped to a whole other level after feeding upon them because 'that is how it is' ?!


Sure, she took a tail smack intended to kill her, but it was previously only used to kill fodder, which really only showed that Pitou was stronger than said fodder. And Netero's first chop did hurt Meruem.

Meruem without any kill intent was ripping Netero apart. Nothing you bring about this matter contesting Pitou's tanking properties will top this. And besides Zero Fist Netero did nothing to Meruem, just as he did absolutely nothing against Pitou.


Really, you seem to be dealing with abstract feelings while I'm using feats and you admitted you have no proof so this discussion is pointless.

Lol, you're using which feats ?! You're only claiming that no RG would replicate anything Meruem did in his fight with Netero with no actual proof on this just as well.

We have a good grasp of Pitou's durability not only by tanking Meruem's blow but also from suffering zero damage by Netero's hatsu. By default Youpi could hold his own as well. Pouf had an special type of En which Meruem only replicated post-Nucke. These things aren't abstract feelings, they are actual feats and facts from the series that if not outright confirm my thoughts at very least go strongly against what you're claiming.

Dayum
06-09-2014, 08:33 PM
Why not ?! If there's nothing outright stating this there's nothing preventing it from being a possibility as well. All we know is that Pouf has one of the highest IQ's in the whole series, and that Pitou is one of the most durables characters.

There is information outright stating they cannot do what Mereum did. She couldn't even see the statue form or hit her despite her 6 senses being at their maximum. Pitou was on an adrenaline high induced bullet-time mode when she confronted Netero and still could not see anything but the after-image of his prayer.

The only reason Mereum could predict Netero's moves is because of his games with Komugi. You cannot just say Pitou can replicate what Mereum did. I don't understand how Togashi goes so in depth with the mechanics and history of Netero's skill and the reason Mereum could even form a counter-offensive and how difficult it was to pull off yet you think these skills can just scaled to other characters :/? I believe you've even said in another thread that in a rematch Pitou would suddenly be able to perceive Netero's movements because he's seen it before. You can't just turn on bullet-time and even if he could it wasn't close to enough.



How you are so sure about this ?! The fact that they haven't show this kind of skill only says that they didn't had the opportunity or necessity of displaying said skills against the opponents they faced. Meruem was playing, so it's normal for him to use strategy he learned from somewhere else. He was totally focused in defeating Netero's hatsu and it is a clear fact. You can't say that only strategy game pro-players would be able to do something against Netero because before anything it was Meruem which imposed to himself this challenge.

@_@? That is not what anyone is saying. Komugi when not even trying can anticipate a game over a hundred moves in advance. Mereum by playing her developed the same skill over many many hours of game time to a lesser degree. You're trying to argue the RG can just do this with no prior development as if it's a relatively simple thing to read a person down to their subconscious mannerisms and know what they're going to do thousands of moves before they do it. How does it go over your head how crazy a feat it is to shoot a light through a single needle in a forest of them from outer space? Togashi had Mereum make such incredibly exaggerated portrayal of what he had to accomplish to hit Netero for shits and giggles?

It's like you're saying if Meruem never met Komugi the fight would ahve gone exactly the same but only taken longer. There was clearly more significance to all the Gungi scenes before and during the fight than simply cutting down the fight time.



What ?! The boost Meruem receives from people he feds upon is strictly related to how much power themselves retained throughout their very lives. What you're claiming with no basis is that Meruem jumped to a whole other level after feeding upon them because 'that is how it is' ?!

They bonded to Mereums cells directly. Mereum is clearly far stronger than his previous self+Youpi&most of Pouf just like Cell is far stronger than just his original form+17&18.


Meruem without any kill intent was ripping Netero apart. Nothing you bring about this matter contesting Pitou's tanking properties will top this. And besides Zero Fist Netero did nothing to Meruem, just as he did absolutely nothing against Pitou.

A hit did hurt Mereum. Pitou also blocked the hit with her arms. You're saying that because a single hit did nothing to Pitou then 5 hits will do nothing, 10, 20, 100? This is like saying Kizaru blocking a single kick from Marco means a 5 more kicks wouldn't do anything to Kizaru either. You cannot just side-ways scale and say Pitou can take 500 hits fine if Mereum can take 1000.


We have a good grasp of Pitou's durability not only by tanking Meruem's blow but also from suffering zero damage by Netero's hatsu. By default Youpi could hold his own as well. Pouf had an special type of En which Meruem only replicated post-Nucke. These things aren't abstract feelings, they are actual feats and facts from the series that if not outright confirm my thoughts at very least go strongly against what you're claiming.

We do not have a good grasp. Mereum hit her with a tail swipe that was previously popping everyone's heads. It didn't pop Pitou's. That tells us nothing except Pitou is more durable than normal ants. You can't know if Mereum incorrectly gauged Pitou's strength and approximated how much harder he hat to hit Pitou to pop his head. Mereum had no intent to kill against Netero but he still chopped his arm and leg off. That doesn't mean a lot of force wasn't necessary. He simply didn't aim for the head or other vitals. There is actually no way to know if it took more force to take Netero's limbs than to pop ant heads.

DoflaMihawk
06-09-2014, 09:17 PM
There are more ways to fight than to simply charge in headfirst like Meruem did, especially in HxH.

Dayum
06-09-2014, 11:09 PM
There are more ways to fight than to simply charge in headfirst like Meruem did, especially in HxH.

Not for Pitou. He is basically Mereum lite who can self-repair himself.

DoflaMihawk
06-09-2014, 11:26 PM
So? Meruem also could've picked a different way to fight Netero if he chose, but he picked the simplest way. That probably wouldn't work for Pitou so she'd try something different.

Brohan
06-09-2014, 11:35 PM
What else would have been effective though?

DoflaMihawk
06-09-2014, 11:39 PM
There's plenty of things Pitou could do. Maybe stay out of the giant-Buddha's range. Maybe get behind Netero. Maybe not even give Netero a chance to bring the giant Buddha out.

This stuff would be a good start.

Brohan
06-09-2014, 11:42 PM
The first is impractical because Pitou is also a melee fighter, the second improbable, and the third impossible; he's too fast.

Dayum
06-10-2014, 02:26 AM
This stuff would be a good start.

How can he know the range if he can't see the statue and where the strikes are coming from?

What would getting behind Netero accomplish? Mereum was attacking from all angles and still getting slapped around. Do you mean stealth and kill Netero before he knows he is being targeted. No way to know how effective that is.

How? He is too slow. He only needs 1/10th of second to use Tepischora and attack yet that was a slow start for Netero. How much exposition does Togashi need to include in his work to get a point across? We got a flashback, narration, Zeno's explanation, then more narration, and loads of Mereum's internal dialog explaining Netero's crazy high speed and skill and it's still not enough?

FerreiraDaSilva
06-10-2014, 05:56 AM
There is information outright stating they cannot do what Mereum did. She couldn't even see the statue form or hit her despite her 6 senses being at their maximum. Pitou was on an adrenaline high induced bullet-time mode when she confronted Netero and still could not see anything but the after-image of his prayer.

Where is the statement ?! Meruem himself could see shit the first time he got stroke, and it was stated that despite of Pitou senses being sharpened Netero stroke meanwhile he was conjuring Terpsichora. Also, as far as wild instincts goes, it was implied that shutting off his En backfired on Pitou's perception. He was in the middle of a desperate situation and made a succession of bad moves. Cool head and better usage of Nen would be much more relevant than some adrenaline boost in his basic physical stats.


The only reason Mereum could predict Netero's moves is because of his games with Komugi. You cannot just say Pitou can replicate what Mereum did. I don't understand how Togashi goes so in depth with the mechanics and history of Netero's skill and the reason Mereum could even form a counter-offensive and how difficult it was to pull off yet you think these skills can just scaled to other characters :/? I believe you've even said in another thread that in a rematch Pitou would suddenly be able to perceive Netero's movements because he's seen it before. You can't just turn on bullet-time and even if he could it wasn't close to enough.

Togashi was simply explaining things from Meruem perspectives, while also making it perfectly clear that Meruem himself was more awed by Netero's hatsu than anything, trying to strictly defeat his technique not kill him or win by any other possible mean - yeah, it wasn't said there were no other way around it. And what I said in other thread is that Netero pretty much got the surprise effect on Pitou, which although with sharpened instincts was outright stated to be desperate and making wrong choices throughout the whole clash they had. It is obvious that Netero got a free shot within the best case scenario in that situation, so things could only become harder in any other possible scenario (e.g. the King being in a safer position would make a better mindset for Pitou).


@_@? That is not what anyone is saying. Komugi when not even trying can anticipate a game over a hundred moves in advance. Mereum by playing her developed the same skill over many many hours of game time to a lesser degree. You're trying to argue the RG can just do this with no prior development as if it's a relatively simple thing to read a person down to their subconscious mannerisms and know what they're going to do thousands of moves before they do it. How does it go over your head how crazy a feat it is to shoot a light through a single needle in a forest of them from outer space? Togashi had Mereum make such incredibly exaggerated portrayal of what he had to accomplish to hit Netero for shits and giggles?

It's like you're saying if Meruem never met Komugi the fight would ahve gone exactly the same but only taken longer. There was clearly more significance to all the Gungi scenes before and during the fight than simply cutting down the fight time.

But what else would happen for fucks sake ?! Either he'd take longer to find out Netero's pattern or he'd get pissed and finish him without ever comprehending his technique. Since the beginning he was able to repel it with strength alone despite of still not having a grasp of the technique's nature.

And that is a huge point that neither you or anybody else is taking in consideration. While it's true that I'm defending the possibility of the Royal Guards to somehow read (or predict, comprehend, etc) Netero's hatsu, it's not like it was ever implied to be strictly necessary for only then be able to defeat him. Pitou and Youpi are pretty much stronger, have more aura and durability than Netero, which should be enough for them to have a shot against the chairman anyway. Pouf although physically weaker was pretty fast, versatile and had an special type of En which helps reading foes line of thought - something only Post-Nucke Meruem replicated, and could pretty much be a 'cheap' way (giving how Meruem wanted so badly to defeat Netero in his own game and not by tricks) to take a grasp of Netero's powers.


They bonded to Mereums cells directly. Mereum is clearly far stronger than his previous self+Youpi&most of Pouf just like Cell is far stronger than just his original form+17&18.

Bullshit. You have no basis for claiming this. We were shown clearly that on the most basic measurement of power - aura - Netero wasn't on par with Royal Guard level. We don't need to assume Pouf and Youpi would give some special and greater boost than their very actual power level because they already were freaking powerful and it would be totally reasonable for Meruem to become this strong after bonding with them.


A hit did hurt Mereum. Pitou also blocked the hit with her arms. You're saying that because a single hit did nothing to Pitou then 5 hits will do nothing, 10, 20, 100? This is like saying Kizaru blocking a single kick from Marco means a 5 more kicks wouldn't do anything to Kizaru either. You cannot just side-ways scale and say Pitou can take 500 hits fine if Mereum can take 1000.

It's funny how you guys claim that if the Royal Guards didn't displayed something so they couldn't do this thing, however when it comes to a clear and simple feat from Pitou then you somehow believe the most likely scenario is that with a dozen more hits it would pile up. Pitou barely reacted due the lack of knowledge (which is very different than outright comprehend someone's move, but is also a surprise factor), and still got no scratch from the hit. The comparison with Kizaru and Marco is also terrible since unlikely Marco's kick, Netero's Hyakushiki Kannon was meant to be his strongest set of techniques. It's very unlikely for a higher end move which had no response to suddenly starts to pile up, we don't need even to have the exact size of Meruem-Pitou's gap to power scale, it just follows the most likely scenario.


We do not have a good grasp. Mereum hit her with a tail swipe that was previously popping everyone's heads. It didn't pop Pitou's. That tells us nothing except Pitou is more durable than normal ants. You can't know if Mereum incorrectly gauged Pitou's strength and approximated how much harder he hat to hit Pitou to pop his head. Mereum had no intent to kill against Netero but he still chopped his arm and leg off. That doesn't mean a lot of force wasn't necessary. He simply didn't aim for the head or other vitals. There is actually no way to know if it took more force to take Netero's limbs than to pop ant heads.

That was a Meruem which already tasted - and knew how to recognize - Nen users. Way past the one which fodderized random Ants without much concern. To assume he simply misread Pitou's actual strength/durability while also making assumptions that it could take more effort in not killing Netero than trying to kill Pitou is too far fetched. Tanking a swing of Meruem's tail while not even defending (if their loyalty and submission to the King means anything the most likely scenario is that Pitou wasn't even using Ten) is the most impressive durability feat in the series and gets pretty much underrated by you.

Dayum
06-10-2014, 05:23 PM
Where is the statement ?! Meruem himself could see shit the first time he got stroke, and it was stated that despite of Pitou senses being sharpened Netero stroke meanwhile he was conjuring Terpsichora. Also, as far as wild instincts goes, it was implied that shutting off his En backfired on Pitou's perception. He was in the middle of a desperate situation and made a succession of bad moves. Cool head and better usage of Nen would be much more relevant than some adrenaline boost in his basic physical stats.

No he couldn't. He even says he couldn't tell what happened. He dint see the statue until they were underground. Correction he saw it when Netero clapped his nen hands.

What? He summoned Tepishcora during the jump to Netero. Are you now trying to say that Pitou using his Hatsu made him too slow to react to Netero?

Of course it did because he was not expecting numerous energy lances to rain down from the sky. That made it difficult to pinpoont the enemy but he did so anyway.

To do what? Completely turn around or even out a situation that was completely in Netero's control? Mereum has a better usage of nen, a cooler head, more wits, and better physical stats he admits he had to do the impossible to hit Netero. That was the entire point of the forest of needle scene. He is the vary example you just described.


Togashi was simply explaining things from Meruem perspectives, while also making it perfectly clear that Meruem himself was more awed by Netero's hatsu than anything, trying to strictly defeat his technique not kill him or win by any other possible mean - yeah, it wasn't said there were no other way around it. And what I said in other thread is that Netero pretty much got the surprise effect on Pitou, which although with sharpened instincts was outright stated to be desperate and making wrong choices throughout the whole clash they had. It is obvious that Netero got a free shot within the best case scenario in that situation, so things could only become harder in any other possible scenario (e.g. the King being in a safer position would make a better mindset for Pitou).


So yeah you are going to downplay all that internal dialog painting the picture of how impossible it ws to devise a strat to defeat Netero and carry it out. All going for the kill with Netero would have done is cut down the number of moves Mereum would need to predict. He was limiting himself to non-critical areas making it harder to find the correct break in Netero's flow. You're now trying to say the strat Mereum used was only concocted to beat Netero while handicappinghimself and could be completely different if he went for the kill. Nothing can be stretched to remotely suggest that.

I don't really even know how to respond to the rest of this. Just the read the above again. Seems clear you have your own conclusion you want to prove instead of just looking at what the actual information presented to us says. It was not mostly bad decisions that gave Netero the advantage against Pitou. Pitou was less experienced, skilled, and overpowered. He is not just going to do better because of a few corrections to how he starts the fight.



But what else would happen for fucks sake ?! Either he'd take longer to find out Netero's pattern or he'd get pissed and finish him without ever comprehending his technique. Since the beginning he was able to repel it with strength alone despite of still not having a grasp of the technique's nature.

Got slapped around until frustration set in at being unable to touch this old man. So you are about to downplay the Gungi games? That is what I feel is coming.

Repel. Mereum was being repelled and no Gungi means no extreme precognitive skills. You seem to not grasp how vital and extreme that skill is suggesting he'd do only moderately worse without it or develop it naturally like it's not big deal.



And that is a huge point that neither you or anybody else is taking in consideration. While it's true that I'm defending the possibility of the Royal Guards to somehow read (or predict, comprehend, etc) Netero's hatsu, it's not like it was ever implied to be strictly necessary for only then be able to defeat him. Pitou and Youpi are pretty much stronger, have more aura and durability than Netero, which should be enough for them to have a shot against the chairman anyway. Pouf although physically weaker was pretty fast, versatile and had an special type of En which helps reading foes line of thought - something only Post-Nucke Meruem replicated, and could pretty much be a 'cheap' way (giving how Meruem wanted so badly to defeat Netero in his own game and not by tricks) to take a grasp of Netero's powers.

What are you talking about!? That is exactly how the RG&Mrereum would have to beat Netero. The only other way to beat Netero is using someone with a completely different set of skills. Youpi, Pitou, and Mereum are all bruisers at the end of the day. Hatsus like Morel, Knov, Potclean, Shoot, Machi, Bonelove, Wolfin, Chrollo could fight a Hatsu like Netero's in a different way...if they were much much stronger.

Please do not start making up facts. More aura? How can we possibly know that? The only thing he have over Netero is their natural durability.

What the fuck? No it was not enough. We clearly see it was not enough. We saw someone with unquestionably more aura, durability, wits, and skill and he struggled. You keep using your imagination to make these incredibly broad yet vague scenarios where the situation we saw changes. The RG can do "something" to "somehow" fight Netero because you say so is not an argument.


Bullshit. You have no basis for claiming this. We were shown clearly that on the most basic measurement of power - aura - Netero wasn't on par with Royal Guard level. We don't need to assume Pouf and Youpi would give some special and greater boost than their very actual power level because they already were freaking powerful and it would be totally reasonable for Meruem to become this strong after bonding with them.

No we weren't :/? We got a comparison pre-training by Colt. Please stop making stuff up. You can't just assume he didn't significantly jump in aura because it's convenient for the point you want to make. The fact he went from Colt thinking he had no at getting past the RG to casually gets past one of the RG shows a vast increase in aura.

Mereum's ren went from moderately bigger than everyone else to engulfing the entire castle grounds. I'm pretty sure that was Togashi's way of conveying a very drastic increase in power. We will never know howmuch and I'm not saying a bigger drawn aura can be used to accurately gauge aura amount but the portrayal seems pretty clear.



It's funny how you guys claim that if the Royal Guards didn't displayed something so they couldn't do this thing, however when it comes to a clear and simple feat from Pitou then you somehow believe the most likely scenario is that with a dozen more hits it would pile up. Pitou barely reacted due the lack of knowledge (which is very different than outright comprehend someone's move, but is also a surprise factor), and still got no scratch from the hit. The comparison with Kizaru and Marco is also terrible since unlikely Marco's kick, Netero's Hyakushiki Kannon was meant to be his strongest set of techniques. It's very unlikely for a higher end move which had no response to suddenly starts to pile up, we don't need even to have the exact size of Meruem-Pitou's gap to power scale, it just follows the most likely scenario.

How is it funny. This isn't like assuming Cav, Ideo, and Bart have Haki. That is an incredibly reasonable and safe assumption to make. It is a very specific skill with a very specific origin. It can't just be scaled to other characters.

Yes. Absolutely. They use nen to defend themselves. It is very unlikely Pitou blocked the blow with her bare arms or just ten. She more than likely summoned her aura to her arms to block. This is a HxH fight so you have to keep that in mind that Mereum bled from Netero's first strike because he was only defending with Ten or his body. Over the fight he is using his aura to protect himself. That doesn't need to be stated. It's just how HxH works. The struggle against unseen strikes from Netero is that it's also difficult to know where to focus your aura for extra defense. So Pitou isn't taking every hit as well as the first one he blocked because he wouldn't be perfectly blocking directing his aura every time. What's funny is you pretending that that single blocked strike does in fact mean Pitou can take many strikes. Drawing such strong conclusions from a single example is a terrible debate tactic regardless of the topic.



That was a Meruem which already tasted - and knew how to recognize - Nen users. Way past the one which fodderized random Ants without much concern. To assume he simply misread Pitou's actual strength/durability while also making assumptions that it could take more effort in not killing Netero than trying to kill Pitou is too far fetched. Tanking a swing of Meruem's tail while not even defending (if their loyalty and submission to the King means anything the most likely scenario is that Pitou wasn't even using Ten) is the most impressive durability feat in the series and gets pretty much underrated by you.

No it's not :/. What you just said is incredibly farfetched. The simplest way of viewing it is that he was hitting all the ants the same way but for Pitou it wasn't enough. You're saying he hit Mereum harder than the rest knowing he was stronger but failed to accurately judge how much force was needed to do so

Not killing Netero is irrelevant. Not trying to kill means not aiming for vitals. Force has nothing to do with it. For all we know if Mereum wanted to kill Netero he would have used his tail. Honestly this is the one point you can have anyway. I feel Netero probably does in fact have little to no aura covering his body when using his Hatsu since it's obviously all manifested as the statue and it's entire purpose it to prevent him from being touched. Aura would be used to maximize his offense&defense.

tupadre97
06-15-2014, 03:57 AM
The tiers of hxh should be something like this...

Low tier= Ppl who cant use nen, including superhumans/geniuses like jones the ripper, komugi, pre nen gon and killua etc.

Mid tier= Ppl thay can use nen but dont have hatsu, or ppl with nen/hatsu that is not combat oriented like leorio, cortopi, pakunoda, etc.

High tier= Ppl who have strong combat oriented hatsu/nen. Includes pretty much everyone that would be considered good fighters on GI starting from goreinu, tsezguerra and up to☻chrollo☻or razor

Top Tier= Royal Guard level and up in terms of strength or ability. So even of you arent combat oriented you can still be considered top tier like shaiapouf or nanika. Includes Post meditation old Netero, Ging, top five users, Meruem, and Gon-san.

God tier= Post rose Meruem level. These ppl are literally gods of nen and can make any ability that comes to mind (like how meruem transmuted his aura into photons on seconds witout even thinking about it just to find komugi, its insane what you can do on this level).

Of course there are also sub tiers (low, mid, high) to each tier so gorienu would be considered low high tier while say knuckle is mid high tier and someone like razor is high high tier. But that can all be debated by you guys so let me no what you think of the tier system.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-18-2014, 05:36 PM
The tiers of hxh should be something like this...

Low tier= Ppl who cant use nen, including superhumans/geniuses like jones the ripper, komugi, pre nen gon and killua etc.

Mid tier= Ppl thay can use nen but dont have hatsu, or ppl with nen/hatsu that is not combat oriented like leorio, cortopi, pakunoda, etc.

High tier= Ppl who have strong combat oriented hatsu/nen. Includes pretty much everyone that would be considered good fighters on GI starting from goreinu, tsezguerra and up to☻chrollo☻or razor

Top Tier= Royal Guard level and up in terms of strength or ability. So even of you arent combat oriented you can still be considered top tier like shaiapouf or nanika. Includes Post meditation old Netero, Ging, top five users, Meruem, and Gon-san.

God tier= Post rose Meruem level. These ppl are literally gods of nen and can make any ability that comes to mind (like how meruem transmuted his aura into photons on seconds witout even thinking about it just to find komugi, its insane what you can do on this level).

Of course there are also sub tiers (low, mid, high) to each tier so gorienu would be considered low high tier while say knuckle is mid high tier and someone like razor is high high tier. But that can all be debated by you guys so let me no what you think of the tier system.

This the way to go indeed, right now we're discussing Netero and RGs placements.

I'm in a hurry now, later I'll answer Dayum and we should most likely vote about this matter anyway, right !?

convict
06-18-2014, 05:47 PM
I genuinely wonder how much of a beast Don is/was.

Brohan
06-19-2014, 03:59 PM
He's probably about Netero level. I can see his Hatsu being based around survival, which would tie into what Netero said about the two kinds of basic strngth you can have as a hunter. Netero was the pinnacle of what a battle seeking hunter could be, while Don is the pinnacle of exploration driven one.

The Shogun of Shoguns
06-19-2014, 04:01 PM
He's probably about Netero level. I can see his Hatsu being based around survival, which would tie into what Netero said about the two kinds of basic strngth you can have as a hunter. Netero was the pinnacle of what a battle seeking hunter could be, while Don is the pinnacle of exploration driven one.
Don Freecs is atleast 300years, too.
So he has to be a higher level than Netero, and the Freecs are similar to the D's of One Piece in terms of potential.
So he has high-end game potential, so he could be much stronger than Netero I imagine.

I mean surviving for so long in the most dangerous place of Earth, he has to be some kind of otherworldly beast in terms of strength/knowledge.

Brohan
06-20-2014, 01:19 PM
Thriving in the Dark Continent seems to be more survival driven than combat though. The best we can say about Don is that he's probably fought Brion and lived before, and by virtue of it being an A Class threat comparedmto Chimera Ants, it's probably about base Meruem level in some aspects, notmcounting Meruem's intelligence.

But really, Netero could walk away from a fight with a less intelligent Meruem as well too, if his goal wasn't to kill the guy, and just to hold him off while others grab items or whatever.

FerreiraDaSilva
06-20-2014, 04:40 PM
Yeah, I expect Don to be Netero level, not too far below nor above.

Zzigg Zoldyck and the girl which went to Dark Continent with Netero should be monsters as well.

JamesKurde
01-15-2015, 02:13 AM
I found it weird.You put him on the same level with average Squadron Leader, where he beats them easily (Yunju) and below Top SL. Why is that?

Killua Zoldyck
03-10-2015, 03:47 PM
Here it is, the official tier list for Hunter X Hunter! Sorry for it coming out so late, been busy.

God Level

Don Freecss

SS

The Five Great Calamities (Brion, Ai, Papu, Hellbell, Zobae Disease)
Other Dark Continent Creatures

S+

Post-Rose Meruem

S

Pre-Rose Meruem
Adult Gon
Netero (prime)
Maha Zoldyck
Ging Freecss
Zzigg Zoldyck
Beyond Netero

S-

Netero (old)
Youpi
Pitou
Pouf

A+

Chrollo
Zeno
Silva
Pariston Hill
Razor
Botobai

A

Biscuit
Hisoka
Illumi Zoldyck
Shalnark (Autopilot)
Kite
Feitan
Uvogin
Phinks
Franklin
Nobunaga
Other Zodiacs (Ginta, Kanzai, Saccho, Saiyu, Mizaistom, Geru, Cluck, Cheadle, Piyon)
Floor Masters
Bonolenov
Enraged Gon (hate for Pitou)

A-

Morel
Zazan
Leol
Cheetu
Bihorn
Killua (God Speed)
Shizuku
Machi
Pakunoda
Palm
------------
Knov

B+

Hanzo
Knuckle
Shoot
Gon
Killua
Genthru
Biscuit (child form)

B

Shalnark
Tsezgerra

B-

Ikalgo
Welfin
Bloster
Rammot
Chimera Ant Officers/Soldiers
Leorio
Pike
Koala
Tsezgerra's Friends

C+

Pokkle

C

Gido
Sadaso
Riehlvelt
Basho
Dalzonelle

C-

Zushi

So first things first, do you guys have any problems with the list right now? It's a pretty long one, maybe I extended it a bit too much, so feel free to give out any suggestions.

- - - Updated - - -

It's more or less empty now, but there are a LOT of characters we need to add.

Gon Freccss
03-10-2015, 04:29 PM
S Rank:

Adult Gon should be above Pre-Rose Meruem. We have evidence of Pitou saying that Adult Gon is as powerful as Pre-Rose Meruem when it comes to aura, initially. Meruem is a specialist, so his enhancer abilities should be at 40%. Gon is an enhancer, so his enhancer abilities are at 100%. Unlike Meruem, Gon has a Hatsu that's way stronger than himself. We have implications that Gon is capable of killing Meruem, when Pitou stated that she's glad that she's going to be the one to die. She was even worried about Meruem at first when Gon disappeared.


Prime Netero should be above both Gon and Meruem here. Old Netero's speed was massively above Meruem's. Prime Netero is a lot more powerful than Old Netero and should be way faster, and more powerful. His skills are most likely more refined and his weakness shouldn't be nearly as noticeable. Given that Old Netero's Zero Hand gave Meruem burn marks, scratches, cuts, and bruises, I think that he should be capable of dealing real damage with it as his prime self. Not many of you would agree with this one, so pretty much yeah.



S- Rank:

Pitou should be above Youpi. She was portrayed to be the most powerful out of the Royal Guards. Meruem's strike with killing intent only gave her a scratch, where it gave Youpi a scratch and sent him flying. The invasion members could have beaten Youpi, but admitted that even all of them would lose to Pitou. That's why I think she's the most powerful Royal Guard.



A Rank:

I believe that Razor, Biscuit, Hisoka, and Illumi Zoldyck should all be in A+. Hisoka wanted to fight Chrollo so badly that he followed him for a long time, and he suggested he has a chance at winning. No, Hisoka didn't want to fight Netero badly. When Netero asked Hisoka who he wanted to fight the most among the other candidates, he stated he wanted to fight Netero himself the most. He didn't persist to fight him even remotely close to as much as Chrollo and I'm pretty sure Togashi wanted to get the hype that early in the manga.

Phinks should be above Uvogin. In just pure physical strength, Phinks is only one placement below Uvogin. Also Phinks was sure he could defeat the chain user when he knew that Uvogin lost. That suggests Phinks is certain that he could win with his abilities when someone like Uvogin couldn't. Phinks' ability is also quite broken, so I don't think we should put him below Uvogin. Uvogin deserves the A- group in my opinion.



A- Rank:

Godspeed Killua shouldn't be this low, at all. He burned half of clone Pouf's face and his hand. He managed to blitz him easily too, without using Whirlwind. This is the same Killua who could beat up Youpi easily and was so fast to the point Youpi couldn't make any sound or react or do anything, though with Whirlwind. Base Killua's lightning bolt paralyzed Youpi long enough for Knuckle to strike him 8+ times and run away, so putting Killua this low is actually downplaying. Base Killua himself is top squadron leader material. He should be at either A or A+ level.

Zazan shouldn't be below Morel, who himself stated he's not good with the offensive. She completely tanked Feitan's Ko stab and broke the sword on impact.



B Rank:

Gon and Killua shouldn't be this low honestly. I think Base Killua himself could handle Shoot after taking off the needle. Also Gon was fighting Knuckle w/o too much problems when he had the odds against him. B+ sounds good for Gon, while honestly something like A- is good for base Killua (who's top squadron leader material). Also if you put something like Enraged Gon on A (the difference between normal Gon and this Gon is large. Killua notices this by saying that he's on a completely new level compared to his normal self, and he grew powerful enough to be capable of killing Morel with a Jajanken).



C+ Rank:

Why do you put Leorio this low? One of the Zodiacs actually acknowledged Leorio's power. He shouldn't be below the soldiers of the Chimera Ants (even post-Nen). I'd actually put him on par with Tzseguerra, actually below him but on his rank.



C Rank:

Why is Pokkle so low? He managed to oneshot a Chimera Ant Solider (although pre-Nen) with one shot of his Hatsu. He should be put in the C+.



That's what I really think :p .

Spade
03-10-2015, 04:41 PM
Where would Palm be? :hmm

Gon Freccss
03-10-2015, 04:48 PM
Where would Palm be? :hmmA- or A level imo.

Killua Zoldyck
03-10-2015, 05:27 PM
Only two people are posting. What happened to the rest of you? :saysowwy

@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456);

For S+, I think you misunderstood something. The characters are not in order of how strong they are. Inside a tier, everyone is placed randomly.

For S-, Youpi is without a doubt physically stronger than Pitou. No one in the invasion team even scratched Youpi, how could they have beaten him? :gilogio Pitou was never portrayed to be the strongest RG, not even stronger than Pouf for that matter.

For A, I think Chrollo and Zeno level people are a notch above Ryodan members and Biscuit+Razor. Hisoka wants to fight anyone very strong. This says absolutely nothing about how Hisoka compares to Chrollo. Chrollo is the strongest of the Ryodan and Zeno and Silva are comparable to him. But Phinks knew nothing about Kurapika. The entire Ryodan wanted to get revenge for Uvogin, this again doesn't mean anything. Phinks too saw Uvogin was invincible, how could Uvogin be a whole tier below Phinks? That's completely baseless.

For A-, I told you Clone Pouf is 70 times weaker than Pouf at full power. Killua is definitely faster than anyone in A-, but he never even scratched Youpi. I believe Zeno or Chrollo could put up a good fight without speed, so Killua is definitely not A or A+ level.

For B, what? Gon was getting manhandled by Knuckle in their fight. But you might be right about this. Do you think we should merge B and B+? I believe Knuckle and Shoot are a little bit stronger so yeah. No, Killua is just squadron leader level. There are plenty of weak squadron leaders, nothing says Killua is as good as Leol or Cheetu.

For C+, again, the characters are not in order. Those ants are like squadron leader level. Tsezgerra was a bit better than Greed Island Gon and Killua, so I think he's still better than Leorio.

For C, the soldier he one-shotted was like the lowest level of ant. Almost anyone could do that. Pokkle definitely can't handle an Officer or a low level Squadron Leader, which is C+ level.


Where would Palm be? :hmm


A- or A level imo.

Whoa, that's a bit too much. Killua was still surviving against Palm, so I guess she's in B+ but a notch above Knuckle and Shoot, or in A- but a notch below Zazan and Cheetu.

Anyway, guys, where should we put these characters?

Knov

Hanzo

Zodiacs

Ponzu

Pike

If you want to add any characters, just tell me!



- - - Updated - - -

I'm adding Shizuku, Pakunoda and Machi to A-, Franklin, Autopilot Shalnark and Nobunaga to A and base Shalnark to B. What do you guys think about this?

Kane
03-10-2015, 07:10 PM
Only two people are posting. What happened to the rest of you? :saysowwy

@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456);

For S+, I think you misunderstood something. The characters are not in order of how strong they are. Inside a tier, everyone is placed randomly.

For S-, Youpi is without a doubt physically stronger than Pitou. No one in the invasion team even scratched Youpi, how could they have beaten him? :gilogio Pitou was never portrayed to be the strongest RG, not even stronger than Pouf for that matter.

For A, I think Chrollo and Zeno level people are a notch above Ryodan members and Biscuit+Razor. Hisoka wants to fight anyone very strong. This says absolutely nothing about how Hisoka compares to Chrollo. Chrollo is the strongest of the Ryodan and Zeno and Silva are comparable to him. But Phinks knew nothing about Kurapika. The entire Ryodan wanted to get revenge for Uvogin, this again doesn't mean anything. Phinks too saw Uvogin was invincible, how could Uvogin be a whole tier below Phinks? That's completely baseless.

For A-, I told you Clone Pouf is 70 times weaker than Pouf at full power. Killua is definitely faster than anyone in A-, but he never even scratched Youpi. I believe Zeno or Chrollo could put up a good fight without speed, so Killua is definitely not A or A+ level.

For B, what? Gon was getting manhandled by Knuckle in their fight. But you might be right about this. Do you think we should merge B and B+? I believe Knuckle and Shoot are a little bit stronger so yeah. No, Killua is just squadron leader level. There are plenty of weak squadron leaders, nothing says Killua is as good as Leol or Cheetu.

For C+, again, the characters are not in order. Those ants are like squadron leader level. Tsezgerra was a bit better than Greed Island Gon and Killua, so I think he's still better than Leorio.

For C, the soldier he one-shotted was like the lowest level of ant. Almost anyone could do that. Pokkle definitely can't handle an Officer or a low level Squadron Leader, which is C+ level.





Whoa, that's a bit too much. Killua was still surviving against Palm, so I guess she's in B+ but a notch above Knuckle and Shoot, or in A- but a notch below Zazan and Cheetu.

Anyway, guys, where should we put these characters?

Knov

Hanzo

Zodiacs

Ponzu

Pike

If you want to add any characters, just tell me!



- - - Updated - - -

I'm adding Shizuku, Pakunoda and Machi to A-, Franklin, Autopilot Shalnark and Nobunaga to A and base Shalnark to B. What do you guys think about this?
We need to get Genthru and Beyond in on this.
The floor masters would not be a bad addition as well.

Is Ponzu the bee girl?
Put her in C+.
Kite should be put in A imo.

Oh, and the Koala of course.

Gon Freccss
03-10-2015, 07:41 PM
Only two people are posting. What happened to the rest of you? :saysowwy

@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456);

For S+, I think you misunderstood something. The characters are not in order of how strong they are. Inside a tier, everyone is placed randomly.Okay, no problem :) .


For S-, Youpi is without a doubt physically stronger than Pitou. No one in the invasion team even scratched Youpi, how could they have beaten him? Pitou was never portrayed to be the strongest RG, not even stronger than Pouf for that matter.He's probably physically stronger, but that doesn't mean the entire fight. Knuckle have seen the glimpse of winning, but against Pitou, ALL of them would fall to her. Also, I already stated that she is portrayed to be the strongest due to her actually taking on the King's killing intent strike with only a bruise, while the others were sent flying away and with a bruise.

Pouf is portrayed to be the weakest. He didn't do much to Morel, who was weakened at the time.


For A, I think Chrollo and Zeno level people are a notch above Ryodan members and Biscuit+Razor. Hisoka wants to fight anyone very strong. This says absolutely nothing about how Hisoka compares to Chrollo. Chrollo is the strongest of the Ryodan and Zeno and Silva are comparable to him. But Phinks knew nothing about Kurapika. The entire Ryodan wanted to get revenge for Uvogin, this again doesn't mean anything. Phinks too saw Uvogin was invincible, how could Uvogin be a whole tier below Phinks? That's completely baseless.I don't think so. Well, Chrollo himself should be above Zeno. That's actually wrong. The only one who he wanted to fight badly is Chrollo, and as crazy as Hisoka may seem, he has his own agendas and would get serious if needed. Phinks knew nothing about Kurapika, yet he believes he can take an opponent that killed Uvogin. Not the entire Ryodan wanted to take out Kurapika. Only Phinks, Nobunaga, and possibly Franklin wanted to take him out. Phinks didn't see Uvogin to be invincible. That's actually not baseless. Phinks' ability is broken, and he was sure he could take an opponent that could kill Uvogin. For example, someone beats your buddy, but you're sure that you can take out that opponent. What you says implies that you are stronger than your buddy.


For A-, I told you Clone Pouf is 70 times weaker than Pouf at full power. Killua is definitely faster than anyone in A-, but he never even scratched Youpi. I believe Zeno or Chrollo could put up a good fight without speed, so Killua is definitely not A or A+ level.I quite understand the 1/7 part, but where did the 10 times come from? Can you actually show me a scan? He did pain Youpi, and even if he couldn't deal much of anything, Youpi survived in the epicenter of his blast, twice. The temperature of Killua's electricity and his speed is the gamechanger here, and that's why I think of that.


For B, what? Gon was getting manhandled by Knuckle in their fight. But you might be right about this. Do you think we should merge B and B+? I believe Knuckle and Shoot are a little bit stronger so yeah. No, Killua is just squadron leader level. There are plenty of weak squadron leaders, nothing says Killua is as good as Leol or Cheetu.Not quite manhandled. He was putting a decent fight against Knuckle in their last fight. Also, Gon knew next to nothing about Knuckle, while Knuckle knew everything, and everything about Gon. Well, I think we should keep two ranks. Melereon didn't want to fight Killua at all, and by just seeing him, he thought he's squadron leader level. Also Killua's lightning bolt is powerful enough to even paralyze and stun Youpi for a decent amount of time.


For C+, again, the characters are not in order. Those ants are like squadron leader level. Tsezgerra was a bit better than Greed Island Gon and Killua, so I think he's still better than Leorio.The Tsezguerra we've seen was rusty. He even said that it has been years since he trained. All what he was better in is experience. Gon and Killua were better than him at every other thing. Well, grouping Tsezguerra with Leorio would fit the best I guess.


For C, the soldier he one-shotted was like the lowest level of ant. Almost anyone could do that. Pokkle definitely can't handle an Officer or a low level Squadron Leader, which is C+ level.That's why I said Chimera Ant soldiers. Anyways, almost is the right word, but placing Pokkle below the three amateurs at Heavens Arena is a underestimation of Pokkle's ability.






Whoa, that's a bit too much. Killua was still surviving against Palm, so I guess she's in B+ but a notch above Knuckle and Shoot, or in A- but a notch below Zazan and Cheetu.Killua was getting dominated by Palm. She even destroyed his yoyo. I'm pretty sure that Palm is top Squadron Leader material, so Zazan's level.


KnovA-


HanzoNot enough info to say.


ZodiacsIn the whole A tier. Pariston seems to be nearly Ging's level, but to be safe, let us say A+. Botobai would be A+. Ginta, Kanzai, Saccho, Saiyu, and Mizaistom would be at A level. Geru, Cluck, Cheadle, and Piyon at A-. Current Kurapika would be at A.


PonzuLowest possible. She seems to only know about Nen, but incapable of using it herself. So she's like superhuman level at best.


PikeC+ along his CA comrades.


I'm adding Shizuku, Pakunoda and Machi to A-, Franklin, Autopilot Shalnark and Nobunaga to A and base Shalnark to B. What do you guys think about this?Seriously? Shizuku should be at like B-. Pakunoda at C+ (at best). Machi is like at B- to B level. Franklin A- to A. Autopilot Shalnark at A-. Nobunaga at A. Base Shalnark at B- level.

RenjiRaizen
03-10-2015, 08:27 PM
Hanzo should be in A (whatever Hisoka and Illumi are in), Knov should be at the same level as Morel right, I mean he just lacks in courage when it comes to niggas at Pitou level, but then again, I think now he should be at Knuckle level or lower due to the whole stress aging thing. Ponzu is bottom of the barrel. Zodiacs should be around same level so in the A's for them. Pike should be like below Killua and Gon, and honestly Leorio should be around Killua and Gon's level too, I mean a teleportation technique is extremely deadly.

Kane
03-10-2015, 08:37 PM
Hanzo should be in A (whatever Hisoka and Illumi are in), Knov should be at the same level as Morel right, I mean he just lacks in courage when it comes to niggas at Pitou level, but then again, I think now he should be at Knuckle level or lower due to the whole stress aging thing. Ponzu is bottom of the barrel. Zodiacs should be around same level so in the A's for them. Pike should be like below Killua and Gon, and honestly Leorio should be around Killua and Gon's level too, I mean a teleportation technique is extremely deadly.

Why do you assume that Hanzo is on Hisoka and Illumi's level?
Is it because of the way those three were portrayed during the Hunter Exam?

RenjiRaizen
03-10-2015, 08:48 PM
Why do you assume that Hanzo is on Hisoka and Illumi's level?
Is it because of the way those three were portrayed during the Hunter Exam?

Well, I don't think he's on their exact level, but in the same area, and yeah.

Plus he gain Nen abilities, which should've gave him a nice boost.

Kane
03-10-2015, 08:55 PM
Well, I don't think he's on their exact level, but in the same area, and yeah.

Plus he gain Nen abilities, which should've gave him a nice boost.
The thing that makes me doubt that is Hisoka off paneled Gerreto (Another guy who got good portrayal during the Hunter Exam) with what seemed to be not much difficulty during the Fourth Phase.

However, I'm not gonna say that means Hisoka would do the same to Hanzo, as we do not know if Gerreto had Nen or not.

RenjiRaizen
03-10-2015, 09:00 PM
The thing that makes me doubt that is Hisoka off paneled Gerreto (Another guy who got good portrayal during the Hunter Exam) with what seemed to be not much difficulty during the Fourth Phase.

However, I'm not gonna say that means Hisoka would do the same to Hanzo, as we do not know if Gerreto had Nen or not.
Well, I think Hanzo had better portrayal to be honest...than Gerreto.

Kane
03-10-2015, 09:10 PM
Well, I think Hanzo had better portrayal to be honest...than Gerreto.
Nah their portayal was pretty close during the Hunter Exam arc was pretty close, with the exception of Hanzo finishing earlier than Gerreta during the Third Phase. Both defeated Gon.

I honestly don't see why there would be any difference between Gerreta and Hanzo at that point.

However, Hanzo has realized his ability to use Nen, which would bump him up.

Assuming Gerreta didn't have Nen and was portrayed similarly to Hanzo we can assume that they should be a bit below Hisoka and Illumi.

Assuming Gerreta did have Nen and Hanzo was still portrayed to be on his level, then I would assume that Current Hanzo would close to, if not on par with Hisoka and Illumi.

As it stands it feels right to have him a bit below Hisoka and Illumi, just feels right.

RenjiRaizen
03-10-2015, 10:39 PM
Man, I feel like he should be in the same letter class, cause he's maintained a good portrayal throughout HunterXHunter.

Brohan
03-11-2015, 11:42 AM
Post rose Meruem is below these other guys why? He was stronger than Adult Gon, who represented Gon's maximum potential. No way is Don above Super Perfect Meruem, the guy was just too powerful, he was so strong to the point where basic nen combat protocol didn't mean anything.

Don being above prime Netero is a MAYBE, but Meruem? That's just wrong. If you're basing that off of the rankings of the calamities, that clearly didn't take into account Meruem, or certainly not his ultimate form.

Ging isn't in the samrle tier as prime Netero. He's not even comparable to post training Netero. And base Meruem needs to be in a tier of his own.

- - - Updated - - -

Likewise Netero and Prime Netero need to be in a tier of their own, below Adult Gon and below Meruem. Netero would no diff any of the royal Guard. They're all to slow to deal with his speed, and not intelligent enough to weave through his attacks. They are less durable than Meruem as well, so them fighting Netero would literally consist of them getting squashed thousands and millions of times before they die.

Pimp of Pimps
03-11-2015, 12:18 PM
​Don Freecs being above prime Netero isn't a maybe lol, it's virtually guaranteed. Post-nuke Meruem can go either way but I'm more inclined Don will be stronger and possibly by a large margin.

Killua Zoldyck
03-11-2015, 01:18 PM
Alright, where should we put Floor Masters, Genthru and Beyond? Bring in your suggestions.

Knov is B+ material imo. He probably was only better than Gon and Killua at hax and experience, especially looking at his mental breakdown just by seeing Pouf's En. I don't see him being stronger than someone like Shoot. I think A- is way too much for him.

I'd also put Hanzo at B+. He was compared to Hisoka and Illumi but he was a lot more clumsy and less experienced. Even after Nen, I don't see why he would be too far above Gon and Killua.

But anyways, what do you guys think about my opinions?

Upon popular suggestion, Ponzu is moved to C-, Pike is moved to C+, the Zodiacs are moved to A, and Botobai and Pariston are moved to A+. Suggest more characters if you want!


Post rose Meruem is below these other guys why? He was stronger than Adult Gon, who represented Gon's maximum potential. No way is Don above Super Perfect Meruem, the guy was just too powerful, he was so strong to the point where basic nen combat protocol didn't mean anything.

Don being above prime Netero is a MAYBE, but Meruem? That's just wrong. If you're basing that off of the rankings of the calamities, that clearly didn't take into account Meruem, or certainly not his ultimate form.

Ging isn't in the samrle tier as prime Netero. He's not even comparable to post training Netero. And base Meruem needs to be in a tier of his own.

- - - Updated - - -

Likewise Netero and Prime Netero need to be in a tier of their own, below Adult Gon and below Meruem. Netero would no diff any of the royal Guard. They're all to slow to deal with his speed, and not intelligent enough to weave through his attacks. They are less durable than Meruem as well, so them fighting Netero would literally consist of them getting squashed thousands and millions of times before they die.

The Chimera Ants were given B level danger ratings, and no, not normal ones. Giant Chimera Ants like the Queen, who would give birth to Kings as strong as Meruem. The calamities were given A level danger and the Dark Continent is filled with creatures like them. Don survived for 300 years in the Dark Continent.

Ging is one of the top 5 Nen users. Old Netero was extremely rusty and out of shape. I highly doubt he's still incomparably stronger than one of the top 5 current Nen users.

This is about overall stats, not how they do in a fight. The Royal Guard are in the same tier as Netero when it comes to skill, durability, strength or anything else besides speed.


Is Ponzu the bee girl?
Put her in C+.
Kite should be put in A imo.

Oh, and the Koala of course.

What? :gilogio Ponzu was running away from normal soldier ants and I think she was weaker than Hunter Exam Gon and Killua even at the time of her death. She is definitely not C+ level, C- is a good estimate.

I agree with Kite.

Wait, you want to put the Koala in A? He doesn't have many good feats, but he looks pretty strong to me. I'll put him in C+. If you have any problems, feel free to say them.


He's probably physically stronger, but that doesn't mean the entire fight. Knuckle have seen the glimpse of winning, but against Pitou, ALL of them would fall to her. Also, I already stated that she is portrayed to be the strongest due to her actually taking on the King's killing intent strike with only a bruise, while the others were sent flying away and with a bruise.

That's because Knuckle had long since used APR on Youpi. Of course, in an actual fight, any of them would get one-shotted by base Youpi. Same for Pitou, this is still baseless. Youpi was never seriously injured by Meruem. If the King had gotten serious, any one of them would have gotten killed instantly.


Pouf is portrayed to be the weakest. He didn't do much to Morel, who was weakened at the time.

Because he was trying to get out of Smokey Jail and was worried about Meruem. Those two never fought, unless you're saying Morel is on the same level as Pouf?


I don't think so. Well, Chrollo himself should be above Zeno. That's actually wrong. The only one who he wanted to fight badly is Chrollo, and as crazy as Hisoka may seem, he has his own agendas and would get serious if needed. Phinks knew nothing about Kurapika, yet he believes he can take an opponent that killed Uvogin. Not the entire Ryodan wanted to take out Kurapika. Only Phinks, Nobunaga, and possibly Franklin wanted to take him out. Phinks didn't see Uvogin to be invincible. That's actually not baseless. Phinks' ability is broken, and he was sure he could take an opponent that could kill Uvogin. For example, someone beats your buddy, but you're sure that you can take out that opponent. What you says implies that you are stronger than your buddy.

Where did you get the idea that the only one he wants to fight badly is Chrollo? Hisoka is a fighting maniac and would want to fight anyone strong. Didn't you remember him getting so anxious about Leorio and Kurapika way back in the Hunter Exam? See, none of this means anything. There's still nothing that says he was stronger than Razor. Razor was never serious and his Nen was enough to nearly win against Tsezgerra, Gon, Killua, Biscuit, Goreinu, Hisoka and Tsezgerra's buddies combined. Even if Hisoka is close to Razor, there's still nothing that implies he was stronger. The entire Ryodan was chasing Kurapika, of course Phinks would be confident. He never stated he was stronger than Uvogin. He was shocked when Uvogin got kidnapped, and people like Nobunaga thought Uvo was invincible. No way is Uvogin A-. That is baseless.


I quite understand the 1/7 part, but where did the 10 times come from? Can you actually show me a scan? He did pain Youpi, and even if he couldn't deal much of anything, Youpi survived in the epicenter of his blast, twice. The temperature of Killua's electricity and his speed is the gamechanger here, and that's why I think of that.

I can't find the scans, so I can't really prove it to you, but there is an incomparable difference between a clone and the original. That was stated, I guarantee you. So Clone Pouf is way less than 7 times weaker than Pouf. Blitzing him is not impressive.

Yes, Killua's speed is good to anyone, but this is overall stats. Killua is not even as good as Shizuku in that.


Not quite manhandled. He was putting a decent fight against Knuckle in their last fight. Also, Gon knew next to nothing about Knuckle, while Knuckle knew everything, and everything about Gon. Well, I think we should keep two ranks. Melereon didn't want to fight Killua at all, and by just seeing him, he thought he's squadron leader level. Also Killua's lightning bolt is powerful enough to even paralyze and stun Youpi for a decent amount of time.

The only reason he kept up was him adapting. And that was because Knuckle was sort of tutoring him and holding back. Shoot is better than Killua in every area, Killua flat out said it. Wait, so do you think Gon and Killua should be moved up, or Knuckle and Shoot moved down? Not top squadron leader level, I still think base Killua is below A- for now.


The Tsezguerra we've seen was rusty. He even said that it has been years since he trained. All what he was better in is experience. Gon and Killua were better than him at every other thing. Well, grouping Tsezguerra with Leorio would fit the best I guess.

But nothing says he could get fodderized by Greed Island Gon and Killua. He was still better in experience, similar to the Bombers. I highly doubt Leorio is that strong now.


That's why I said Chimera Ant soldiers. Anyways, almost is the right word, but placing Pokkle below the three amateurs at Heavens Arena is a underestimation of Pokkle's ability.

Alright, another new idea. Pokkle should be above the three at Heavens Arena but below the Squadron Leaders, so how about:

B+ = Gon, Killua (base), Knuckle, Shoot

B = Tsezgerra

B- = Squadron Leaders, Ikalgo

C+ = Pokkle

C = Gido, Sadaso, Riehlvelt

C- = Zushi

What do you think about this, Gon? :hmm


Killua was getting dominated by Palm. She even destroyed his yoyo. I'm pretty sure that Palm is top Squadron Leader material, so Zazan's level.

Alright, I'll move Palm to A- but a notch below top Squadron Leaders. You're okay with that, right?



In the whole A tier. Pariston seems to be nearly Ging's level, but to be safe, let us say A+. Botobai would be A+. Ginta, Kanzai, Saccho, Saiyu, and Mizaistom would be at A level. Geru, Cluck, Cheadle, and Piyon at A-. Current Kurapika would be at A.

Where are you getting this from? We know barely anything specific about the Zodiacs so I'll put Pariston and Botobai at A+ and the rest at A until we get more feats.


Seriously? Shizuku should be at like B-. Pakunoda at C+ (at best). Machi is like at B- to B level. Franklin A- to A. Autopilot Shalnark at A-. Nobunaga at A. Base Shalnark at B- level.

She manhandled Pike in close combat, who was a top Officer. Nothing says Pakunoda is worse than all of them by so much. Machi is physically stronger than Nobunaga. Could you explain why you put Autopilot Shalnark at A-? Base Shalnark still seems to be as strong as Tsezgerra for me, since I moved Gon and Killua to B+.

Kane
03-11-2015, 02:42 PM
Alright, where should we put Floor Masters, Genthru and Beyond? Bring in your suggestions.

Knov is B+ material imo. He probably was only better than Gon and Killua at hax and experience, especially looking at his mental breakdown just by seeing Pouf's En. I don't see him being stronger than someone like Shoot. I think A- is way too much for him.

I'd also put Hanzo at B+. He was compared to Hisoka and Illumi but he was a lot more clumsy and less experienced. Even after Nen, I don't see why he would be too far above Gon and Killua.

But anyways, what do you guys think about my opinions?

Upon popular suggestion, Ponzu is moved to C-, Pike is moved to C+, the Zodiacs are moved to A, and Botobai and Pariston are moved to A+. Suggest more characters if you want!



The Chimera Ants were given B level danger ratings, and no, not normal ones. Giant Chimera Ants like the Queen, who would give birth to Kings as strong as Meruem. The calamities were given A level danger and the Dark Continent is filled with creatures like them. Don survived for 300 years in the Dark Continent.

Ging is one of the top 5 Nen users. Old Netero was extremely rusty and out of shape. I highly doubt he's still incomparably stronger than one of the top 5 current Nen users.

This is about overall stats, not how they do in a fight. The Royal Guard are in the same tier as Netero when it comes to skill, durability, strength or anything else besides speed.



What? :gilogio Ponzu was running away from normal soldier ants and I think she was weaker than Hunter Exam Gon and Killua even at the time of her death. She is definitely not C+ level, C- is a good estimate.

I agree with Kite.

Wait, you want to put the Koala in A? He doesn't have many good feats, but he looks pretty strong to me. I'll put him in C+. If you have any problems, feel free to say them.

I wanted the Koala to be added to the tier list, but he shouldn't be in the A tier. I'm fine with him being B-.
As for Genthru, I'm fine with him being in like B+.
The Floor Masters should be A+.

Kane
03-11-2015, 03:03 PM
Knov is solid B+ material, he has being potrayed as being equal to Morel, but has no balls, and I daresay he has only stood up to fodder.

Gon Freccss
03-11-2015, 04:01 PM
Alright, where should we put Floor Masters, Genthru and Beyond? Bring in your suggestions.We literally have no info about the Floor Masters whatsoever. Hisoka also didn't fight them, but IIRC, he said he wanted to fight him. Also I'm pretty sure that it was stated that Hisoka is as good as the Floor Masters. So you can somewhat try to place them based on those bits of info.

Genthru manhandled GI Gon. I'm pretty sure that's enough to put him close to Knuckle's level, so B+ level imo. I'd place Beyond in the same tier as Ging. Possibly he could be even on par with Prime Netero, even stronger. We don't have enough info, but he's pretty sure he'd wreck anyone that comes in his way and he'd get out of the Zodiacs' hands. So in the same tier as Ging is the best possibility.


Knov is B+ material imo. He probably was only better than Gon and Killua at hax and experience, especially looking at his mental breakdown just by seeing Pouf's En. I don't see him being stronger than someone like Shoot. I think A- is way too much for him.He got in a mental breakdown because he was on Zetsu when he saw Pouf's En. It was literally stated that you can get psychologically destroyed by facing Nen w/o Nen yourself and even be killed. His hax should put him at A- too.


I'd also put Hanzo at B+. He was compared to Hisoka and Illumi but he was a lot more clumsy and less experienced. Even after Nen, I don't see why he would be too far above Gon and Killua.No info as of yet, but you could put him between B+ and A- if you wanted.


But anyways, what do you guys think about my opinions?

Upon popular suggestion, Ponzu is moved to C-, Pike is moved to C+, the Zodiacs are moved to A, and Botobai and Pariston are moved to A+. Suggest more characters if you want!:D. It is my opinion!



That's because Knuckle had long since used APR on Youpi. Of course, in an actual fight, any of them would get one-shotted by base Youpi. Same for Pitou, this is still baseless. Youpi was never seriously injured by Meruem. If the King had gotten serious, any one of them would have gotten killed instantly.Let us take what is in context. There is a slight glimpse of hope seen while fighting Youpi, but none when it would come to fight Pitou. Also using the comparison I made, it definitely looks like Pitou is the most powerful. He even praised her when she took on his attack with only a bruise, where he didn't do with both Pouf and Youpi. IIRC, in the power chart Pitou scored more than Youpi.



Because he was trying to get out of Smokey Jail and was worried about Meruem. Those two never fought, unless you're saying Morel is on the same level as Pouf?He could have beaten him up after getting out of Smoky Jail. Also I'm not suggesting that, but I'm saying that Pouf is portrayed to be the weakest.




Where did you get the idea that the only one he wants to fight badly is Chrollo? Hisoka is a fighting maniac and would want to fight anyone strong. Didn't you remember him getting so anxious about Leorio and Kurapika way back in the Hunter Exam? See, none of this means anything. There's still nothing that says he was stronger than Razor. Razor was never serious and his Nen was enough to nearly win against Tsezgerra, Gon, Killua, Biscuit, Goreinu, Hisoka and Tsezgerra's buddies combined. Even if Hisoka is close to Razor, there's still nothing that implies he was stronger. The entire Ryodan was chasing Kurapika, of course Phinks would be confident. He never stated he was stronger than Uvogin. He was shocked when Uvogin got kidnapped, and people like Nobunaga thought Uvo was invincible. No way is Uvogin A-. That is baseless.Because he followed him and went literally to him to help him exorcise Kurapika's Nen. Even Illumi commented about his obsession with Chrollo at the start of the Chairman Arc. He was getting anxious because he saw a lot of potential in them. He even said that he wants them to get ripe before killing them. That's why he had to kill someone to fulfill some of his desires. Well, Hisoka should be in the same tier as Razor :P . Most of the Ryodan gave up after seeing their predictions, except for Nobunaga, Phinks, probably Feitan (he was probably uninterested too), and probably Franklin too, implying they can beat people who can beat Uvogin. Well, everyone would be surprised at those chains coming to get Uvogin. Also Uvogin was poisoned and had leeches inside his body, so that surprise won't be because someone overpowered Uvogin, most of the time. Nobunaga didn't think that he is invincible. He thought that he can't be defeated in a fight except if someone cheated against him, but Nobunaga was crying and full of hatred and rage at that time. Even Chrollo asked him if he wants to fight Kurapika and he accepted, calmly. This is not baseless.




I can't find the scans, so I can't really prove it to you, but there is an incomparable difference between a clone and the original. That was stated, I guarantee you. So Clone Pouf is way less than 7 times weaker than Pouf. Blitzing him is not impressive.

Yes, Killua's speed is good to anyone, but this is overall stats. Killua is not even as good as Shizuku in that.Well, original Pouf is no more, but still, Killua was beating clone Pouf who's less than 7 times the power of a Royal Guard. This is something really notable.

Killua is not even as good as Shizuku? Talk about overpowering the Ryodan. Killua oneshotted Rammot where Shizuku had trouble against Pike.




The only reason he kept up was him adapting. And that was because Knuckle was sort of tutoring him and holding back. Shoot is better than Killua in every area, Killua flat out said it. Wait, so do you think Gon and Killua should be moved up, or Knuckle and Shoot moved down? Not top squadron leader level, I still think base Killua is below A- for now.That wasn't in the last fight. In previous fights he was improving his Nen usage. Knuckle flat out stated that he's going at full power now. Well, I don't remember Killua saying it, and I'm pretty sure if he said it, it'd be before removing the needle. Both of the teams need a buff tbqh. Base Killua was flat out stated to be terrifying and even one of the Squadron Leaders stated that he's Squadron Leader level and he doesn't want to fight him at all, just by seeing him. He should be top Squadron Leader level imo.




But nothing says he could get fodderized by Greed Island Gon and Killua. He was still better in experience, similar to the Bombers. I highly doubt Leorio is that strong now.Obviously, but he's not better at every area as you said. Also Leorio's power was praised by a Zodiac, so he should be strong I think.




Alright, another new idea. Pokkle should be above the three at Heavens Arena but below the Squadron Leaders, so how about:

B+ = Gon, Killua (base), Knuckle, Shoot

B = Tsezgerra

B- = Squadron Leaders, Ikalgo

C+ = Pokkle

C = Gido, Sadaso, Riehlvelt

C- = Zushi

What do you think about this, Gon? :hmmIt's pretty good.




Alright, I'll move Palm to A- but a notch below top Squadron Leaders. You're okay with that, right?Don't see any problems, but didn't you say that the spaces between ranks doesn't mean difference in power?





Where are you getting this from? We know barely anything specific about the Zodiacs so I'll put Pariston and Botobai at A+ and the rest at A until we get more feats. You wot m8? I literally just said that.




She manhandled Pike in close combat, who was a top Officer. Nothing says Pakunoda is worse than all of them by so much. Machi is physically stronger than Nobunaga. Could you explain why you put Autopilot Shalnark at A-? Base Shalnark still seems to be as strong as Tsezgerra for me, since I moved Gon and Killua to B+.Well, he kept up with her first, but then fell because she had the offensive abilities and because he was too stupid to close the holes. She still had problems with him. I don't remember him being a top officer. Pakunoda was a specialist, and she didn't have much combat abilities. Again, difference in pure physical strength (w/o) Nen doesn't mean quite a lot. Autopilot Shalnark only destroyed a Chimera Ant solider (an advanced one at that), and a bottom Officer who doesn't seem to be that strong actually. That doesn't mean he should be put all of the way to that level. Base Shalnark seems to be Tszeguerra imo. Also, base Killua oneshotted Rammot. It doesn't mean much to kill soldiers, when Killua oneshotted an officer.

Machi should be at B imo. Shizuku at B-, and Pakunoda should be at C+. Shalnark should be put with Shizuku imo.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 04:27 PM
Floor Masters same class as Hisoka, Genthru a class lower than current Gon and Killua, Beyond should be prime Netero class or higher.

Killua Zoldyck
03-11-2015, 04:50 PM
The list has been edited! :D

Okay, you guys are both saying it, so Koala is added to B-, Knov in A- and Genthru is in B+. Hanzo will be in B+ for now until someone disagrees.

@TheBaldHeadedNegro (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=6608); Floor Masters are portrayed as being on the same level as Hisoka, I'd say A is a safe place for them.

Anyhow, do you guys have any problems with the list so far?


Floor Masters same class as Hisoka, Genthru a class lower than current Gon and Killua, Beyond should be prime Netero class or higher.

Genthru easily beat up Greed Island Gon, so I think he's in the same class as Gon and Killua.

Alright, cool. @TheBaldHeadedNegro (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=6608); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689); @Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); @Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456);

Where do you guys think Beyond is in the list? Pool in suggestions.

:D. It is my opinion!

Hey. I was talking about the stuff that was above what you quoted :pek


Let us take what is in context. There is a slight glimpse of hope seen while fighting Youpi, but none when it would come to fight Pitou. Also using the comparison I made, it definitely looks like Pitou is the most powerful. He even praised her when she took on his attack with only a bruise, where he didn't do with both Pouf and Youpi. IIRC, in the power chart Pitou scored more than Youpi.

Um, but Pitou's case is a direct fight, Youpi's case is a long-end struggle with APR in the mix. APR had already worked on Youpi and was pretty far in. Of course Pitou would have an easier time. Pitou might be the strongest in base but base Pouf and Youpi are portrayed as very close to her, and Centaur Youpi is far above base Youpi. Youpi is at least the strongest. Pitou might be more skilled and intelligent, but that doesn't mean much here.


He could have beaten him up after getting out of Smoky Jail. Also I'm not suggesting that, but I'm saying that Pouf is portrayed to be the weakest.

He immediately went to the King. Why would he beat up Morel when Meruem was his top priority? Where was that ever suggested? The three were portrayed as more or less equals throughout.


Because he followed him and went literally to him to help him exorcise Kurapika's Nen. Even Illumi commented about his obsession with Chrollo at the start of the Chairman Arc. He was getting anxious because he saw a lot of potential in them. He even said that he wants them to get ripe before killing them. That's why he had to kill someone to fulfill some of his desires. Well, Hisoka should be in the same tier as Razor :P . Most of the Ryodan gave up after seeing their predictions, except for Nobunaga, Phinks, probably Feitan (he was probably uninterested too), and probably Franklin too, implying they can beat people who can beat Uvogin. Well, everyone would be surprised at those chains coming to get Uvogin. Also Uvogin was poisoned and had leeches inside his body, so that surprise won't be because someone overpowered Uvogin, most of the time. Nobunaga didn't think that he is invincible. He thought that he can't be defeated in a fight except if someone cheated against him, but Nobunaga was crying and full of hatred and rage at that time. Even Chrollo asked him if he wants to fight Kurapika and he accepted, calmly. This is not baseless.

But Chrollo was the only one within distance. Obviously if Hisoka had a chance to fight Netero he would try anything he could to do that. Exactly, so Hisoka has interest in talented and strong people. This still proves nothing about his actual strength. What? Everyone was shocked when Uvogin died. Most of the Ryodan didn't even want to accept that possibility. Uvogin was shown to be the most brute overpowered member. He is definitely not A-, a whole tier below Nobunaga and the like. That is without a doubt baseless. I know Chrollo is stronger than Uvogin.


Well, original Pouf is no more, but still, Killua was beating clone Pouf who's less than 7 times the power of a Royal Guard. This is something really notable.

Killua is not even as good as Shizuku? Talk about overpowering the Ryodan. Killua oneshotted Rammot where Shizuku had trouble against Pike.

Wha? I think you misunderstood. Clone Pouf is like ten times weaker than original Pouf at a bare minimum. He should actually be faaaarrrr weaker. I can see Knuckle beating that Pouf.

Overall. Shizuku is older, has more experience, and more brawn. Shizuku had very little trouble, she manhandled Pike in close combat.


That wasn't in the last fight. In previous fights he was improving his Nen usage. Knuckle flat out stated that he's going at full power now. Well, I don't remember Killua saying it, and I'm pretty sure if he said it, it'd be before removing the needle. Both of the teams need a buff tbqh. Base Killua was flat out stated to be terrifying and even one of the Squadron Leaders stated that he's Squadron Leader level and he doesn't want to fight him at all, just by seeing him. He should be top Squadron Leader level imo.

True, but it was still clear Knuckle had the advantage. Now, Gon and Knuckle should be pretty much equals so they're both in B+. Meloreon is a very, very weak Squadron Leader. He should be like Soldier level, and not as strong as Rammot probably. Him praising Killua is not impressive. Knuckle and Morel couldn't handle Cheetu's speed, Leol is stronger than Cheetu and Zazan is above both. Knuckle, Shoot, Gon and Killua are all still only B+ material currently. Also, Killua was stated to have the potential to be as strong as a Squadron Leader. He even knew God Speed by then, so maybe Meloreon was talking about God Speed Killua.


Obviously, but he's not better at every area as you said. Also Leorio's power was praised by a Zodiac, so he should be strong I think.

Killua flat out said it. Although that was a while ago, maybe it's changed now. Leorio really has no feats worthy of B or higher. At best he's Yorknew Gon and Killua level, which is solid B-


It's pretty good.

Great.


Don't see any problems, but didn't you say that the spaces between ranks doesn't mean difference in power?

Nah, I'm going to put a line in between (something like -----) to show a difference. Everything inside is random.


Well, he kept up with her first, but then fell because she had the offensive abilities and because he was too stupid to close the holes. She still had problems with him. I don't remember him being a top officer. Pakunoda was a specialist, and she didn't have much combat abilities. Again, difference in pure physical strength (w/o) Nen doesn't mean quite a lot. Autopilot Shalnark only destroyed a Chimera Ant solider (an advanced one at that), and a bottom Officer who doesn't seem to be that strong actually. That doesn't mean he should be put all of the way to that level. Base Shalnark seems to be Tszeguerra imo. Also, base Killua oneshotted Rammot. It doesn't mean much to kill soldiers, when Killua oneshotted an officer.

Machi should be at B imo. Shizuku at B-, and Pakunoda should be at C+. Shalnark should be put with Shizuku imo.

No, Pike was only keeping at a safe distance and using webs to keep her away. When Shizuku got close, she fodderized him. I really don't see her being as strong as Leorio. Pike was the second-hand of Zazan. He should be the second strongest Officer besides Ikalgo. Pakunoda has what bad feats? Even Chrollo was taken out by Kurapika, does this mean Chrollo is not very strong? Pakunoda is portrayed as being an equal to Machi, no reason to think she's the weakest. Physical strength kinda does matter. Nobunaga was laughably stronger than Gon and Killua, and Machi is far stronger than him. She should be like top Squadron Leader level. No, Shalnark destroyed two Officers. I think you got that wrong. The standard isn't always followed, you know. A soldier like Koala has better feats than a Squadron Leader like Welfin.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 04:53 PM
The list style has been edited! :D

Okay, you guys are both saying it, so Koala is added to B-, Knov in A- and Genthru is in B+. Hanzo will be in B+ for now until someone disagrees.

@TheBaldHeadedNegro (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=6608); Floor Masters are portrayed as being on the same level as Hisoka, I'd say A is a safe place for them.

Anyhow, do you guys have any problems with the list so far?



Genthru easily beat up Greed Island Gon, so I think he's in the same class as Gon and Killua.

Alright, cool. @TheBaldHeadedNegro (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=6608); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689); @Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); @Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456);

Where do you guys think Beyond is in the list? Pool in suggestions.


Hey. I was talking about the stuff that was above what you quoted :pek



Um, but Pitou's case is a direct fight, Youpi's case is a long-end struggle with APR in the mix. APR had already worked on Youpi and was pretty far in. Of course Pitou would have an easier time. Pitou might be the strongest in base but base Pouf and Youpi are portrayed as very close to her, and Centaur Youpi is far above base Youpi. Youpi is at least the strongest. Pitou might be more skilled and intelligent, but that doesn't mean much here.



He immediately went to the King. Why would he beat up Morel when Meruem was his top priority? Where was that ever suggested? The three were portrayed as more or less equals throughout.



But Chrollo was the only one within distance. Obviously if Hisoka had a chance to fight Netero he would try anything he could to do that. Exactly, so Hisoka has interest in talented and strong people. This still proves nothing about his actual strength. What? Everyone was shocked when Uvogin died. Most of the Ryodan didn't even want to accept that possibility. Uvogin was shown to be the most brute overpowered member. He is definitely not A-, a whole tier below Nobunaga and the like. That is without a doubt baseless. I know Chrollo is stronger than Uvogin.



Wha? I think you misunderstood. Clone Pouf is like ten times weaker than original Pouf at a bare minimum. He should actually be faaaarrrr weaker. I can see Knuckle beating that Pouf.

Overall. Shizuku is older, has more experience, and more brawn. Shizuku had very little trouble, she manhandled Pike in close combat.



True, but it was still clear Knuckle had the advantage. Now, Gon and Knuckle should be pretty much equals so they're both in B+. Meloreon is a very, very weak Squadron Leader. He should be like Soldier level, and not as strong as Rammot probably. Him praising Killua is not impressive. Knuckle and Morel couldn't handle Cheetu's speed, Leol is stronger than Cheetu and Zazan is above both. Knuckle, Shoot, Gon and Killua are all still only B+ material currently. Also, Killua was stated to have the potential to be as strong as a Squadron Leader. He even knew God Speed by then, so maybe Meloreon was talking about God Speed Killua.



Killua flat out said it. Although that was a while ago, maybe it's changed now. Leorio really has no feats worthy of B or higher. At best he's Yorknew Gon and Killua level, which is solid B-



Great.



Nah, I'm going to put a line in between (something like -----) to show a difference. Everything inside is random.



No, Pike was only keeping at a safe distance and using webs to keep her away. When Shizuku got close, she fodderized him. I really don't see her being as strong as Leorio. Pike was the second-hand of Zazan. He should be the second strongest Officer besides Ikalgo. Pakunoda has what bad feats? Even Chrollo was taken out by Kurapika, does this mean Chrollo is not very strong? Pakunoda is portrayed as being an equal to Machi, no reason to think she's the weakest. Physical strength kinda does matter. Nobunaga was laughably stronger than Gon and Killua, and Machi is far stronger than him. She should be like top Squadron Leader level. No, Shalnark destroyed two Officers. I think you got that wrong. The standard isn't always followed, you know. A soldier like Koala has better feats than a Squadron Leader like Welfin.

But Gon and Killua got much stronger, plus wasn't Gon not giving absolute everything for a portion of the fight.

DoflaMihawk
03-11-2015, 05:10 PM
Putting Ging in the same tier as Meruem is some heavy bias. I thought old Netero was considered the WSM?

And if Ging is that strong, why didn't Netero ask for his help against the ants?

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 05:14 PM
Putting Ging in the same tier as Meruem is some heavy bias. I thought old Netero was considered the WSM?

And if Ging is that strong, why didn't Netero ask for his help against the ants?
He probably did ask, but Ging was being a douche, but anyways, I think prime Netero should be at the level of post Rose Meruem.

Gon Freccss
03-11-2015, 05:35 PM
The list has been edited! :DWhy is Palm below the rest of the people at A-? She's powerful enough to shatter Killua's yoyo with a single punch. She was stomping Killua w/o full effort.


Where do you guys think Beyond is in the list? Pool in suggestions.I already made a suggestion in my previous post. No need to repeat what I said because I have ways to finish replying on your post.



Hey. I was talking about the stuff that was above what you quoted :pekWhat stuff?




Um, but Pitou's case is a direct fight, Youpi's case is a long-end struggle with APR in the mix. APR had already worked on Youpi and was pretty far in. Of course Pitou would have an easier time. Pitou might be the strongest in base but base Pouf and Youpi are portrayed as very close to her, and Centaur Youpi is far above base Youpi. Youpi is at least the strongest. Pitou might be more skilled and intelligent, but that doesn't mean much here.They're both the same. Centaur Youpi vs Pitou is debatable, but Pitou is actually the strongest in base.




He immediately went to the King. Why would he beat up Morel when Meruem was his top priority? Where was that ever suggested? The three were portrayed as more or less equals throughout.He could extract a threat and then go to Meruem. Also Pouf got the most damage from getting hit by Meruem. He's the least powerful of the RG.



But Chrollo was the only one within distance. Obviously if Hisoka had a chance to fight Netero he would try anything he could to do that. Exactly, so Hisoka has interest in talented and strong people. This still proves nothing about his actual strength. What? Everyone was shocked when Uvogin died. Most of the Ryodan didn't even want to accept that possibility. Uvogin was shown to be the most brute overpowered member. He is definitely not A-, a whole tier below Nobunaga and the like. That is without a doubt baseless. I know Chrollo is stronger than Uvogin.Hisoka could have gone to an another guy once Chrollo's Nen was sealed, but nope, he actually went through all the trouble and brought a hunter who could exorcist Nen to have a chance at fighting Chrollo.

Well, we have implications and suggestions that a couple of members are stronger than him. Do not go and just ignore those, especially even after reading the predictions, Nobunaga and Phinks still wanted to get fight Kurapika while the others simply just dropped going after Kurapika.



Wha? I think you misunderstood. Clone Pouf is like ten times weaker than original Pouf at a bare minimum. He should actually be faaaarrrr weaker. I can see Knuckle beating that Pouf.


Overall. Shizuku is older, has more experience, and more brawn. Shizuku had very little trouble, she manhandled Pike in close combat.She didn't manhandle Pike in close combat. She had an advantage for sure, but not to the point of manhandling him. Also, she doesn't have more brawn. Killua's showings far surpass that of Shizuku.




True, but it was still clear Knuckle had the advantage. Now, Gon and Knuckle should be pretty much equals so they're both in B+. Meloreon is a very, very weak Squadron Leader. He should be like Soldier level, and not as strong as Rammot probably. Him praising Killua is not impressive. Knuckle and Morel couldn't handle Cheetu's speed, Leol is stronger than Cheetu and Zazan is above both. Knuckle, Shoot, Gon and Killua are all still only B+ material currently. Also, Killua was stated to have the potential to be as strong as a Squadron Leader. He even knew God Speed by then, so maybe Meloreon was talking about God Speed Killua.He's the weakest Squadron Leader for sure. Yet, Morel defeated Cheetu. Also Leol isn't stronger than Cheetu. He didn't know of Godspeed at that time. He only learned it at the end of the fight against the Siblings. Also, how the hell would Melereon talk about Godspeed Killua when he didn't know or even see it. That's absurd. Also what he meant by potential in context that he's already there. Killua oneshotted Rammot who's arguably the strongest officer.




Killua flat out said it. Although that was a while ago, maybe it's changed now. Leorio really has no feats worthy of B or higher. At best he's Yorknew Gon and Killua level, which is solid B-Yeah. Sure, Leorio has no feats, but you can't go and say he's at the level of Yorknew Gon and Killua's level. Also Yorknew Killua was clearly more powerful than Gon.




Great.:)



No, Pike was only keeping at a safe distance and using webs to keep her away. When Shizuku got close, she fodderized him. I really don't see her being as strong as Leorio. Pike was the second-hand of Zazan. He should be the second strongest Officer besides Ikalgo. Pakunoda has what bad feats? Even Chrollo was taken out by Kurapika, does this mean Chrollo is not very strong? Pakunoda is portrayed as being an equal to Machi, no reason to think she's the weakest. Physical strength kinda does matter. Nobunaga was laughably stronger than Gon and Killua, and Machi is far stronger than him. She should be like top Squadron Leader level. No, Shalnark destroyed two Officers. I think you got that wrong. The standard isn't always followed, you know. A soldier like Koala has better feats than a Squadron Leader like Welfin.Pike didn't get stomped, but he was certainly losing. Pakunoda has really no feats, and Yorknew Gon and Killua could both escape from her when she was injured.

Chrollo was taken by the combination of surprise and that the lights went immediately out. Pakunoda wasn't shown to be as powerful as Machi. Well, that's by ruling out Nen of course. Of course Nobunaga is stronger than Machi because he's both an Enhancer and he's the one who calmly accepted fighting Kurapika when Machi dropped it.

Koala has better feats? When did he show any feats to begin with?


He probably did ask, but Ging was being a douche, but anyways, I think prime Netero should be at the level of post Rose Meruem.Netero didn't ask. He wanted to fight Meruem alone, and die fighting him. Nah, that's too much. He's like barely going to defeat pre-Rose Meruem, and not everyone agrees with this.

Kane
03-11-2015, 07:12 PM
The Shadow Beasts should be added to the B+ tier.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 07:16 PM
The Shadow Beasts should be added to the B+ tier.

Really? I was thinking C+ to B- for them.

Pimp of Pimps
03-11-2015, 07:17 PM
Putting Ging in the same tier as Meruem is some heavy bias. I thought old Netero was considered the WSM?

And if Ging is that strong, why didn't Netero ask for his help against the ants?


Based on what?

Kane
03-11-2015, 07:30 PM
Really? I was thinking C+ to B- for them.
Nope, saying the Shadow Beasts belong in the C+ or B- tier would mean 4 Pokkles or Pikes would give Uvogin trouble.
The Shadow Beasts were defeated but they gave Uvogin a lot of trouble.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 07:55 PM
Nope, saying the Shadow Beasts belong in the C+ or B- tier would mean 4 Pokkles or Pikes would give Uvogin trouble.
The Shadow Beasts were defeated but they gave Uvogin a lot of trouble.

I thought they gave him a little trouble due to him being careless.

Kane
03-11-2015, 08:04 PM
I thought they gave him a little trouble due to him being careless.
Uvogin was going to die from his fight with them had he not been helped by the other members of the Ryodan.
Though I do admit he was being careless.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 08:12 PM
Uvogin was going to die from his fight with them had he not been helped by the other members of the Ryodan.
Though I do admit he was being careless.

Well the real question is how to "categorize" Uvogin, because he does rush into battle, but he's not an idiot, and I'm sure he'd go into a fight more seriously if he knew ho powerful an opponent was.

Also, they should be there because one on one they'd get destroyed by Uvo.

Kane
03-11-2015, 09:16 PM
Well the real question is how to "categorize" Uvogin, because he does rush into battle, but he's not an idiot, and I'm sure he'd go into a fight more seriously if he knew ho powerful an opponent was.

Also, they should be there because one on one they'd get destroyed by Uvo.
Right, but I'm not saying they belong in Uvogin's tier.
But saying they are on par with Genthru or Tsezgerra isn't too far off.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 09:21 PM
Right, but I'm not saying they belong in Uvogin's tier.
But saying they are on par with Genthru or Tsezgerra isn't too far off.

Ok, I see what your sayin; yeah I agree they belong there.

Brohan
03-11-2015, 10:50 PM
I feel like this tier list misses the point if it isn't an overall strength list.

- - - Updated - - -

As in who is the overall best combatant.

RenjiRaizen
03-11-2015, 11:08 PM
I feel like this tier list misses the point if it isn't an overall strength list.

- - - Updated - - -

As in who is the overall best combatant.

Wait, this isn't overall power?

Gon Freccss
03-12-2015, 12:29 PM
The Shadow Beasts should be added to the B+ tier.Nah, they're weak. C+ at best for them.

Autopilot Shalnark and Uvogin should be lowered imo. Shizuku, Machi, and Pakunoda should be lowered too, as well as Base Shalnark.

Kane
03-12-2015, 12:35 PM
Nah, they're weak. C+ at best for them.

Autopilot Shalnark and Uvogin should be lowered imo. Shizuku, Machi, and Pakunoda should be lowered too, as well as Base Shalnark.

Are you saying Pokkle=Shadow Beasts?
Come on now, they are at least as strong as Genthru.

Killua Zoldyck
03-12-2015, 04:52 PM
I added Bonolenov to A and Zzigg to S. I don't think anyone will have problems with that.

Suggest where we should keep these characters. Beyond is also still not settled, tell me where you want to put him.

Tsezgerra's Friends

Hunter Exam Gon

Hunter Exam Killua

Kalluto

Kurapika


I feel like this tier list misses the point if it isn't an overall strength list.

- - - Updated - - -

As in who is the overall best combatant.

It is an overall strength list. The Royal Guard are just as good as Netero in every stat except speed. Does it really make sense to put Netero in an entirely different tier? Hax is the only thing that really doesn't count.


He probably did ask, but Ging was being a douche, but anyways, I think prime Netero should be at the level of post Rose Meruem.

No, Netero just wanted a final challenge. There was no need to ask Ging. Whoa, that's too much. Pre Rose Meruem was FAR stronger than Old Netero - it's debatable if he can defeat even Pre Rose Meruem. Post Rose Meruem is a whole tier above Pre Rose.


But Gon and Killua got much stronger, plus wasn't Gon not giving absolute everything for a portion of the fight.

Genthru was holding back too. They didn't really get THAT much stronger. Genthru should be at least on the same level as current Gon and Killua.


Putting Ging in the same tier as Meruem is some heavy bias. I thought old Netero was considered the WSM?

And if Ging is that strong, why didn't Netero ask for his help against the ants?

No, Prime Netero was considered the WSM. Old Netero was extremely out of shape. It had been like half a century since he was that strong. Ging is one of the top 5 current Nen users.

Ging had other, more important jobs, probably. Besides Meruemand the RG, the ants weren't that dangerous. Netero also wanted one final challenge.


Nah, they're weak. C+ at best for them.

Wha? So Pokkle is as strong as the Injyuu? :geg

The Injyuu were strong enough to somewhat take blows from Uvogin, and they were Nen masters. They're just fodder to a top tier Ryodan member. I'd say they're at least B-. B+ is a stretch though.


Why is Palm below the rest of the people at A-? She's powerful enough to shatter Killua's yoyo with a single punch. She was stomping Killua w/o full effort.

Fixed it. Knov is still below the rest though.


They're both the same. Centaur Youpi vs Pitou is debatable, but Pitou is actually the strongest in base.

Could you prove it? Pouf and base Youpi's feats are just as good as Pitou's. They are all on the exact same level. Saying who's stronger is baseless until there's canon proof.


He could extract a threat and then go to Meruem. Also Pouf got the most damage from getting hit by Meruem. He's the least powerful of the RG.

But Youpi and Pitou were there. Morel was injured and out of breath, how could he even do anything to a Royal Guard, let alone the King? No, he didn't. The RG were all sent flying or bruised. Pouf has similar feats and has much better hax and versatility. In overall stats, he's as good as Pitou.


Hisoka could have gone to an another guy once Chrollo's Nen was sealed, but nope, he actually went through all the trouble and brought a hunter who could exorcist Nen to have a chance at fighting Chrollo.

Well, we have implications and suggestions that a couple of members are stronger than him. Do not go and just ignore those, especially even after reading the predictions, Nobunaga and Phinks still wanted to get fight Kurapika while the others simply just dropped going after Kurapika.

There are only a few, few people as strong as Chrollo. Getting to fight someone like Zeno or Netero is like winning a lottery, obviously Hisoka couldn't just find another guy. Plus, he knows the Ryodan very well, so give or take.

Where? Because the entire Ryodan is on the same level. And they were fighting as a team. All of the things you mentioned are just tiny plot points, not something like Phinks saying 'I'm stronger than Uvogin'. You also want to put Uvo in A-, could you explain why? He cannot be a whole tier below the rest. That should be pretty standard.


She didn't manhandle Pike in close combat. She had an advantage for sure, but not to the point of manhandling him. Also, she doesn't have more brawn. Killua's showings far surpass that of Shizuku.

She kind of did. Pike was helpless, she was beating him around casually. She was having a low-diff fight. Again, could you prove it? The only reason Pike lasted was because of his webs. Shizuku is more experienced, more haxed and more versatile. At least, in overall stats, she's better than Killua.


He's the weakest Squadron Leader for sure. Yet, Morel defeated Cheetu. Also Leol isn't stronger than Cheetu. He didn't know of Godspeed at that time. He only learned it at the end of the fight against the Siblings. Also, how the hell would Melereon talk about Godspeed Killua when he didn't know or even see it. That's absurd. Also what he meant by potential in context that he's already there. Killua oneshotted Rammot who's arguably the strongest officer.

Morel never 'defeated' Cheetu. They were not even fighting, Morel beat Cheetu because Cheetu messed up. No, Morel flat out said Leol was a bit stronger. It's unknown if he knew God Speed by then. Potential means future strength. I know Killua is solid Squadron Leader, but there is absolutely no proof he is like A or A+ as you claim. A or A+ is for the strongest humans ever. Rammot was as strong as Welfin or Colt, he's definitely Squadron Leader level - again, the standard is not always followed.


Yeah. Sure, Leorio has no feats, but you can't go and say he's at the level of Yorknew Gon and Killua's level. Also Yorknew Killua was clearly more powerful than Gon.

He has no feats of beating anyone above B-. Yorknew Gon and Killua were impressive to the likes of Nobunaga, Leorio could be impressive to the likes of the Zodiacs.


Pike didn't get stomped, but he was certainly losing. Pakunoda has really no feats, and Yorknew Gon and Killua could both escape from her when she was injured.

Once again, Pike did get stomped in close combat. He never hit Shizuku with his limbs even once. Pakunoda was treated and respected same like the other members. Gon and Killua could escape from Nobunaga and Machi too. Does that make them C+? No reason to think Pakunoda is so weak compared to the rest. Her experience and hax should be on the same level as people like Morel.


Chrollo was taken by the combination of surprise and that the lights went immediately out. Pakunoda wasn't shown to be as powerful as Machi. Well, that's by ruling out Nen of course. Of course Nobunaga is stronger than Machi because he's both an Enhancer and he's the one who calmly accepted fighting Kurapika when Machi dropped it.

Same for Pakunoda. She was treated just like all the other members. Show me a single moment where Pakunoda was suggested to be the weakest by such a huge margin. Putting her on the same level as Pokkle is huge downplay. That includes muscle strength, which is important here. The ranking was made with Nen, just strength Nen.


Koala has better feats? When did he show any feats to begin with?

He's been pretty impressive and level-headed. Welfin was scared of all of his enemies, the only plus in his book was Missile Man. Koala is a safe B-.

Brohan
03-12-2015, 05:37 PM
Yes Netero needs to be a tier above the Royal Guard. They don't stand a ghost of a chance in a fight.

- - - Updated - - -

A regular kick from Adult Gon almost knocked Pitou out when she wasn't able to defend against it. Netero's Hatsu is >>A basic kick.

Furthermore they won't be able to stand up against his Hatsu at all, you can't just discount that, because literally 99% of the cast couldn't either.

Meruem wouldn't have even been able to if it wasn't for his games with. Komugi.

- - - Updated - - -

People really need to re read the Chimera Ant arc, a lot of wrong things keep being said.

Kane
03-12-2015, 07:13 PM
I added Bonolenov to A and Zzigg to S. I don't think anyone will have problems with that.

Suggest where we should keep these characters. Beyond is also still not settled, tell me where you want to put him.

Tsezgerra's Friends

Hunter Exam Gon

Hunter Exam Killua

Kalluto

Kurapika



Wha? So Pokkle is as strong as the Injyuu? :geg

The Injyuu were strong enough to somewhat take blows from Uvogin, and they were Nen masters. They're just fodder to a top tier Ryodan member. I'd say they're at least B-. B+ is a stretch though.


They are not fodder. If I recall correctly, Uvogin would have died had the other members of the Phantom Troupe not helped him.
I'd say that are at least on par with guys like Genthru.

DoflaMihawk
03-12-2015, 07:48 PM
Based on what?

Best feats, highest stats (besides Meruem) etc. He's like the Whitebeard of HxH, dude.

Do you think Ging > Old Netero? If so then why?

Gon Freccss
03-12-2015, 08:43 PM
I added Bonolenov to A and Zzigg to S. I don't think anyone will have problems with that.We do not have a single piece of info to give us the placement of Zzigg. For all what we know, he could be in the DC and as strong as hell.


Tsezgerra's FriendsC+.


Hunter Exam GonC-, below Zushi obviously.


Hunter Exam KilluaC-, below Zushi too.


KallutoB-.
KurapikaCurrent Kurapika should be at A.



Wha? So Pokkle is as strong as the Injyuu? :gegHe's not as strong as them, but they're completely garbage. One punch from Uvogin destroyed the worm's face. The bone bullet killed the rabid dog. The scream killed the little hairy guy. Why Uvogin was put down because of their hax.


The Injyuu were strong enough to somewhat take blows from Uvogin, and they were Nen masters. They're just fodder to a top tier Ryodan member. I'd say they're at least B-. B+ is a stretch though.None of them took on any blows par the worm who got his eyeball and teeth punched out, and destroyed his face. C+ is their best placement.




Fixed it. Knov is still below the rest though.He's portrayed to be as good as Morel, and he's his technique is broken.




Could you prove it? Pouf and base Youpi's feats are just as good as Pitou's. They are all on the exact same level. Saying who's stronger is baseless until there's canon proof.They don't have feats that are as good as Pitou. Also in the databook power chart, Pitou was put to be the strongest.




But Youpi and Pitou were there. Morel was injured and out of breath, how could he even do anything to a Royal Guard, let alone the King? No, he didn't. The RG were all sent flying or bruised. Pouf has similar feats and has much better hax and versatility. In overall stats, he's as good as Pitou.No, only Youpi and Pouf were sent flying away. Pitou was hit and stayed in the same place.




Where? Because the entire Ryodan is on the same level. And they were fighting as a team. All of the things you mentioned are just tiny plot points, not something like Phinks saying 'I'm stronger than Uvogin'. You also want to put Uvo in A-, could you explain why? He cannot be a whole tier below the rest. That should be pretty standard.They're not on the same level. Those are still implications and suggestions. He's not a whole tier below the others, he's just less powerful than a few members. That's what I'm trying to say to you.




She kind of did. Pike was helpless, she was beating him around casually. She was having a low-diff fight. Again, could you prove it? The only reason Pike lasted was because of his webs. Shizuku is more experienced, more haxed and more versatile. At least, in overall stats, she's better than Killua.More experienced doesn't mean instant win. Also Killua is the haxxed one, and he's more versatile. Killua's lightning in base could paralyze and stun Youpi for a while, and he's powerful enough to oneshot Rammot. Shizuku is definitely weaker than he is, for sure.




Morel never 'defeated' Cheetu. They were not even fighting, Morel beat Cheetu because Cheetu messed up. No, Morel flat out said Leol was a bit stronger. It's unknown if he knew God Speed by then. Potential means future strength. I know Killua is solid Squadron Leader, but there is absolutely no proof he is like A or A+ as you claim. A or A+ is for the strongest humans ever. Rammot was as strong as Welfin or Colt, he's definitely Squadron Leader level - again, the standard is not always followed.If he was a bit stronger, it means that they're on still on the same boat. He outright stated that he got the idea of a new technique in a fight after they met Melereon, and potential means power in this context. I didn't say he's A or A+ in base. He's A- in base. Standard should be followed here. Rammot can be taken as the most powerful officer.




He has no feats of beating anyone above B-. Yorknew Gon and Killua were impressive to the likes of Nobunaga, Leorio could be impressive to the likes of the Zodiacs.Nope, they weren't impressive at all. They were impressive for someone their age.




Once again, Pike did get stomped in close combat. He never hit Shizuku with his limbs even once. Pakunoda was treated and respected same like the other members. Gon and Killua could escape from Nobunaga and Machi too. Does that make them C+? No reason to think Pakunoda is so weak compared to the rest. Her experience and hax should be on the same level as people like Morel. No, she wasn't treated and respected like the other members. They were worried about her safety from the chain-user. She's also not a combat-type. Gon and Killua couldn't escape from Machi at all. They escaped from Nobunaga because of their plan and Nobunaga wasn't directly holding them. You see that when Gon tried to move to escape, Machi immediately stopped him. Gon and Killua could escape from an injured Pakunoda. Her experience and hax is on the same level as Morel? Lol, did she even get proper lessons about Nen? She's nowhere near Morel in experience.




Same for Pakunoda. She was treated just like all the other members. Show me a single moment where Pakunoda was suggested to be the weakest by such a huge margin. Putting her on the same level as Pokkle is huge downplay. That includes muscle strength, which is important here. The ranking was made with Nen, just strength Nen.What I said above. She's definitely not on the same level as Pokkle, she's more powerful, but she's not like B- in power. That wasn't made with Nen. It was pure physical strength.




He's been pretty impressive and level-headed. Welfin was scared of all of his enemies, the only plus in his book was Missile Man. Koala is a safe B-.Cool.

RenjiRaizen
03-12-2015, 08:53 PM
You know what i think I'm done tryna help, because honestly I ain't help wit shit.

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 09:18 AM
Come on, guys! Where do you think we should put Tsezgerra's friends, Kalluto, Hunter Exam Gon, and Hunter Exam Killua?
TheBaldHeadedNegro; RenjiRaizen; DoflaMihawk; Brohan;

Also added 'Enraged' Gon (with the hate for Pitou) in A.


You know what i think I'm done tryna help, because honestly I ain't help wit shit.

Wait, what happened? The list is going smoothly and we're doing a great job. Let's keep at it! :)


Best feats, highest stats (besides Meruem) etc. He's like the Whitebeard of HxH, dude.

Do you think Ging > Old Netero? If so then why?

Stats aren't that reliable, and it makes the HxH humans look pathetic. Ging is one of the top 5 Nen users, and he's weaker than a Netero who got so much worse he considered himself on the same level as Morel and Knov? Of course he was being modest, but that just shows you how much he degraded.

Prime Netero is definitely the WSM though, besides Maha and Don.


Yes Netero needs to be a tier above the Royal Guard. They don't stand a ghost of a chance in a fight.

- - - Updated - - -

A regular kick from Adult Gon almost knocked Pitou out when she wasn't able to defend against it. Netero's Hatsu is >>A basic kick.

Furthermore they won't be able to stand up against his Hatsu at all, you can't just discount that, because literally 99% of the cast couldn't either.

Meruem wouldn't have even been able to if it wasn't for his games with. Komugi.

- - - Updated - - -

People really need to re read the Chimera Ant arc, a lot of wrong things keep being said.

And a fight is different from stats.

Adult Gon is stronger than Pre-Rose Meruem, of course his basic kick is above Netero's Hatsu. Zero Hand is the only thing Netero has that compares to Adult Gon or Meruem.

Netero's Hatsu was doing literally nothing to Meruem. Hundreds of thousands of attacks barely gave Meruem the slightest hints of dull pain. Even if Meruem didn't figure it out, I highly doubt Netero could've killed him.

The RG tanked attacks from Meruem and could put more than a scratch on him.


They are not fodder. If I recall correctly, Uvogin would have died had the other members of the Phantom Troupe not helped him.
I'd say that are at least on par with guys like Genthru.

That's because of their poison. Uvogin was stomping them with his head and neck alone. I'm not saying they are fodder, but they are fodder to people like Uvogin. They got taken out pretty easily by Machi and base Shalnark too. B+ is overdoing it, imo.


We do not have a single piece of info to give us the placement of Zzigg. For all what we know, he could be in the DC and as strong as hell.

Zzigg went on an expedition with Prime Netero, so it's possible he was as good as Netero. I'm just relying on speculation here, but that's all we can rely on for now. Don is the only person confirmed to be DC level.


C-, below Zushi obviously.

C-, below Zushi too.

Wha? :geg

Heavens Arena Killua stomped Zushi. There's no difference between Heavens Arena and Hunter Exam Killua. I'd say Hunter Exam Killua is a solid C and Gon is a notch below, but still not C-.


B-.

Kalluto stomped an Officer though, and Officers like Rammot are B- level.


Current Kurapika should be at A.

Alright. I think everyone will agree with this, so it's done and done.


He's not as strong as them, but they're completely garbage. One punch from Uvogin destroyed the worm's face. The bone bullet killed the rabid dog. The scream killed the little hairy guy. Why Uvogin was put down because of their hax.

None of them took on any blows par the worm who got his eyeball and teeth punched out, and destroyed his face. C+ is their best placement.

Rabid Dog easily bit through Uvogin's hard skin which Dalzonelle couldn't even scratch. The little hairy guy you're talking about wasn't affected by Uvogin's punches. Hax and experience does count here. The Injyuu are good enough to stand against Uvogin for at least a while. I highly doubt Pokkle is that good.

The Worm completely tanked Uvogin's punch. It was BBI that took it out.


He's portrayed to be as good as Morel, and he's his technique is broken.

Not really. He has as much experience and hax as Morel, but his strength is a different story. He's Squadron Leader level for sure, but so are Gon and Killua.


They don't have feats that are as good as Pitou. Also in the databook power chart, Pitou was put to be the strongest.

I don't count databook charts to be valid. The RG are portrayed to be on the exact same level. Youpi is a bit above the rest because of his strength, but that's it.


No, only Youpi and Pouf were sent flying away. Pitou was hit and stayed in the same place.

All of them were bruised however. Youpi and Pouf weren't given any major damage.


They're not on the same level. Those are still implications and suggestions. He's not a whole tier below the others, he's just less powerful than a few members. That's what I'm trying to say to you.

You said Uvo was A-. Okay, I'll admit this argument is getting a bit too much into speculation. I still believe Uvo was the strongest in the Ryodan bar Hisoka and Chrollo, but if you consider Uvo on the same level as the rest, that's good enough for me.


More experienced doesn't mean instant win. Also Killua is the haxxed one, and he's more versatile. Killua's lightning in base could paralyze and stun Youpi for a while, and he's powerful enough to oneshot Rammot. Shizuku is definitely weaker than he is, for sure.

I never said it did. Shizuku can be a tier above Killua but still lose to him in a fight. She can draw out blood with Blinky and could read Feitan's movements casually. Killua only has comparable hax, the rest is in Shizuku's favor.


If he was a bit stronger, it means that they're on still on the same boat. He outright stated that he got the idea of a new technique in a fight after they met Melereon, and potential means power in this context. I didn't say he's A or A+ in base. He's A- in base. Standard should be followed here. Rammot can be taken as the most powerful officer.

You said Leol wasn't stronger than Cheetu, I said the opposite. I never said Leol was on a different boat either. Killua is A- in base how? He should be on the same level as Gon, and Palm stomped him in base. I meant he isn't in A or A+ in God Speed form. His speed is like Royal Guard level, that's for sure, but there is no proof he's so strong or versatile. Plus, the people in A or A+ have way more experience. Experience is a big thing in HxH.


Nope, they weren't impressive at all. They were impressive for someone their age.

Nobunaga flat out complimented their strength and he and Machi didn't even notice Gon and Killua in Zetsu. There's no proof Leorio is as good as Tsezgerra. There is proof he is as good as Yorknew Gon and Killua.


No, she wasn't treated and respected like the other members. They were worried about her safety from the chain-user. She's also not a combat-type. Gon and Killua couldn't escape from Machi at all. They escaped from Nobunaga because of their plan and Nobunaga wasn't directly holding them. You see that when Gon tried to move to escape, Machi immediately stopped him. Gon and Killua could escape from an injured Pakunoda. Her experience and hax is on the same level as Morel? Lol, did she even get proper lessons about Nen? She's nowhere near Morel in experience.

She was never treated like a fodder. If she was so weak compared to the others, I think Togashi would've highlighted it. At least she's in B or B+, C+ is overdoing it. Pakunoda was injured, Nobunaga and Machi were healthy. Those are three different stories. Her hax is, well, super haxed. Mind reading is as good as anything Morel can do, and Pakunoda is several years older than Gon and Killua. Of course she would have a lot and a lot of experience. Even Knuckle had more experience than Gon by a huge margin.


What I said above. She's definitely not on the same level as Pokkle, she's more powerful, but she's not like B- in power. That wasn't made with Nen. It was pure physical strength.

B- is for people like Welfin, who was made a joke by Ikalgo. Why can't Pakunoda be that strong? It was? Could you show me proof? I'm not too knowledgeable about these databooks.

Gon Freccss
03-14-2015, 12:18 PM
Zzigg went on an expedition with Prime Netero, so it's possible he was as good as Netero. I'm just relying on speculation here, but that's all we can rely on for now. Don is the only person confirmed to be DC level.I know that.




Wha? :geg

Heavens Arena Killua stomped Zushi. There's no difference between Heavens Arena and Hunter Exam Killua. I'd say Hunter Exam Killua is a solid C and Gon is a notch below, but still not C-.Was Zushi using Nen there? I don't think he used Nen on the offensive at least. Even Killua's strongest chop didn't put Zushi down. Also Zushi showing Killua Ren made Killua panic, and that was months and months before they practiced their Ren. Rewatch Heavens Arena.




Kalluto stomped an Officer though, and Officers like Rammot are B- level.Not all officers are on the same level.




Alright. I think everyone will agree with this, so it's done and done. :D




Rabid Dog easily bit through Uvogin's hard skin which Dalzonelle couldn't even scratch. The little hairy guy you're talking about wasn't affected by Uvogin's punches. Hax and experience does count here. The Injyuu are good enough to stand against Uvogin for at least a while. I highly doubt Pokkle is that good.Because of his fangs. He wasn't affected by his punches because of the poison and the guy's hair. That's because of their hax and Uvogin underestimating them. Pokkle isn't that good, but they're not B- material either.


The Worm completely tanked Uvogin's punch. It was BBI that took it out.http://pic2.mangayes.com/comics/16378/153194/b0ecc84c0e8abcf68f4bd26c7cbe1523.jpg




Not really. He has as much experience and hax as Morel, but his strength is a different story. He's Squadron Leader level for sure, but so are Gon and Killua.But he's portrayed on the same level as Morel.




I don't count databook charts to be valid. The RG are portrayed to be on the exact same level. Youpi is a bit above the rest because of his strength, but that's it.

All of them were bruised however. Youpi and Pouf weren't given any major damage.But what I said has better proof what you said.




You said Uvo was A-. Okay, I'll admit this argument is getting a bit too much into speculation. I still believe Uvo was the strongest in the Ryodan bar Hisoka and Chrollo, but if you consider Uvo on the same level as the rest, that's good enough for me.I consider him below Feitan, Phinks, and Nobunaga. Around Franklin's level, and above the rest.




I never said it did. Shizuku can be a tier above Killua but still lose to him in a fight. She can draw out blood with Blinky and could read Feitan's movements casually. Killua only has comparable hax, the rest is in Shizuku's favor. She couldn't oneshot Pike, where Killua oneshotted Rammot. Killua is stronger, more durable, and faster. Even Killua is experienced himself.




You said Leol wasn't stronger than Cheetu, I said the opposite. I never said Leol was on a different boat either. Killua is A- in base how? He should be on the same level as Gon, and Palm stomped him in base. I meant he isn't in A or A+ in God Speed form. His speed is like Royal Guard level, that's for sure, but there is no proof he's so strong or versatile. Plus, the people in A or A+ have way more experience. Experience is a big thing in HxH.Godspeed Killua is extremely fast and his electricity haxxed. That's why he's A or A+. Experience won't matter a thing to overpowered stat or hax.




Nobunaga flat out complimented their strength and he and Machi didn't even notice Gon and Killua in Zetsu. There's no proof Leorio is as good as Tsezgerra. There is proof he is as good as Yorknew Gon and Killua.You don't find kids this powerful everywhere. Also where's the proof that he's as good as YN Gon and Killua? Killua is a lot stronger than Gon too.




She was never treated like a fodder. If she was so weak compared to the others, I think Togashi would've highlighted it. At least she's in B or B+, C+ is overdoing it. Pakunoda was injured, Nobunaga and Machi were healthy. Those are three different stories. Her hax is, well, super haxed. Mind reading is as good as anything Morel can do, and Pakunoda is several years older than Gon and Killua. Of course she would have a lot and a lot of experience. Even Knuckle had more experience than Gon by a huge margin.It's clear. She's not a combat type and they were worried about losing her. Her hax isn't combat type too, and her experience isn't the same as Morel. Knuckle had more experience, a lot more, and Gon still managed to fight him on close to equal footing.




B- is for people like Welfin, who was made a joke by Ikalgo. Why can't Pakunoda be that strong? It was? Could you show me proof? I'm not too knowledgeable about these databooks.Pakunoda didn't show many combat feats. Also why I'm saying that they don't use Nen because they don't show aura when they wrestle. When Gon used his aura when he wrestled Nobunaga, he defeated him. It was highlighted that Gon actually used aura when Nobunaga's hand was w/o any aura.

Lanicard
03-14-2015, 12:20 PM
Hunter Exame Gon - C-
Hunter Exame Killua - C
Tsezgerra's Friends - B-
Kalluto - B

I think this fits pretty well.

RenjiRaizen
03-14-2015, 01:59 PM
Come on, guys! Where do you think we should put Tsezgerra's friends, Kalluto, Hunter Exam Gon, and Hunter Exam Killua?
@TheBaldHeadedNegro (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=6608); @RenjiRaizen (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5522); @DoflaMihawk (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=520); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689);

Also added 'Enraged' Gon (with the hate for Pitou) in A.



Wait, what happened? The list is going smoothly and we're doing a great job. Let's keep at it! :)



Stats aren't that reliable, and it makes the HxH humans look pathetic. Ging is one of the top 5 Nen users, and he's weaker than a Netero who got so much worse he considered himself on the same level as Morel and Knov? Of course he was being modest, but that just shows you how much he degraded.

Prime Netero is definitely the WSM though, besides Maha and Don.



And a fight is different from stats.

Adult Gon is stronger than Pre-Rose Meruem, of course his basic kick is above Netero's Hatsu. Zero Hand is the only thing Netero has that compares to Adult Gon or Meruem.

Netero's Hatsu was doing literally nothing to Meruem. Hundreds of thousands of attacks barely gave Meruem the slightest hints of dull pain. Even if Meruem didn't figure it out, I highly doubt Netero could've killed him.

The RG tanked attacks from Meruem and could put more than a scratch on him.



That's because of their poison. Uvogin was stomping them with his head and neck alone. I'm not saying they are fodder, but they are fodder to people like Uvogin. They got taken out pretty easily by Machi and base Shalnark too. B+ is overdoing it, imo.



Zzigg went on an expedition with Prime Netero, so it's possible he was as good as Netero. I'm just relying on speculation here, but that's all we can rely on for now. Don is the only person confirmed to be DC level.



Wha? :geg

Heavens Arena Killua stomped Zushi. There's no difference between Heavens Arena and Hunter Exam Killua. I'd say Hunter Exam Killua is a solid C and Gon is a notch below, but still not C-.



Kalluto stomped an Officer though, and Officers like Rammot are B- level.



Alright. I think everyone will agree with this, so it's done and done.



Rabid Dog easily bit through Uvogin's hard skin which Dalzonelle couldn't even scratch. The little hairy guy you're talking about wasn't affected by Uvogin's punches. Hax and experience does count here. The Injyuu are good enough to stand against Uvogin for at least a while. I highly doubt Pokkle is that good.

The Worm completely tanked Uvogin's punch. It was BBI that took it out.



Not really. He has as much experience and hax as Morel, but his strength is a different story. He's Squadron Leader level for sure, but so are Gon and Killua.



I don't count databook charts to be valid. The RG are portrayed to be on the exact same level. Youpi is a bit above the rest because of his strength, but that's it.



All of them were bruised however. Youpi and Pouf weren't given any major damage.



You said Uvo was A-. Okay, I'll admit this argument is getting a bit too much into speculation. I still believe Uvo was the strongest in the Ryodan bar Hisoka and Chrollo, but if you consider Uvo on the same level as the rest, that's good enough for me.



I never said it did. Shizuku can be a tier above Killua but still lose to him in a fight. She can draw out blood with Blinky and could read Feitan's movements casually. Killua only has comparable hax, the rest is in Shizuku's favor.



You said Leol wasn't stronger than Cheetu, I said the opposite. I never said Leol was on a different boat either. Killua is A- in base how? He should be on the same level as Gon, and Palm stomped him in base. I meant he isn't in A or A+ in God Speed form. His speed is like Royal Guard level, that's for sure, but there is no proof he's so strong or versatile. Plus, the people in A or A+ have way more experience. Experience is a big thing in HxH.



Nobunaga flat out complimented their strength and he and Machi didn't even notice Gon and Killua in Zetsu. There's no proof Leorio is as good as Tsezgerra. There is proof he is as good as Yorknew Gon and Killua.



She was never treated like a fodder. If she was so weak compared to the others, I think Togashi would've highlighted it. At least she's in B or B+, C+ is overdoing it. Pakunoda was injured, Nobunaga and Machi were healthy. Those are three different stories. Her hax is, well, super haxed. Mind reading is as good as anything Morel can do, and Pakunoda is several years older than Gon and Killua. Of course she would have a lot and a lot of experience. Even Knuckle had more experience than Gon by a huge margin.



B- is for people like Welfin, who was made a joke by Ikalgo. Why can't Pakunoda be that strong? It was? Could you show me proof? I'm not too knowledgeable about these databooks.

My help isn't really need man haha.

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 03:16 PM
My help isn't really need man haha.

Yes, it is. Everybody's help is needed, man! If you don't want to help, then okay, but we need everybody's opinions to advance the list. Please at least give your thoughts once in a while.


Hunter Exame Gon - C-
Hunter Exame Killua - C
Tsezgerra's Friends - B-
Kalluto - B

I think this fits pretty well.

Yeah, this is the list I would go with. Who do you think is stronger, Hunter Exam Gon or Zushi? If Gon is stronger than Zushi by a large margin, I might put him in C- but a notch above Zushi :hmm
@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); Are you sure Tsezgerra's friends are C+? They were stomping Razor's 'fake' Devils and are all pro hunters. I'd say they're B- level, but I want to hear your thoughts.


I know that.

But you said there's no piece of info we have on Zzigg... I was just disproving you. Zzigg is most likely Prime Netero level. Like you said, it's possible he's in the DC and like Don level but that has no proof.


Was Zushi using Nen there? I don't think he used Nen on the offensive at least. Even Killua's strongest chop didn't put Zushi down. Also Zushi showing Killua Ren made Killua panic, and that was months and months before they practiced their Ren. Rewatch Heavens Arena.

He's an amateur at Nen. Zushi wouldn't use Ren in a typical fight because Wing doesn't allow him to. Killua was just panicking becasue Zushi released a similar type of aura to Illumi. Don't tell me Zushi's Ren is as good as Illumi's Ren :lmao


Not all officers are on the same level.

Of course, but is there any proof that officer was weaker than Rammot? No reason to think it was exceptionally weak or something. Rammot was even one-shotted by Killua, I doubt the same thing could happen to Kalluto.


Because of his fangs. He wasn't affected by his punches because of the poison and the guy's hair. That's because of their hax and Uvogin underestimating them. Pokkle isn't that good, but they're not B- material either.

But that still proves how much of a master they are. Hax and experience does matter here. Why do you think some of the weakest Ants are above the Injyuu?


http://pic2.mangayes.com/comics/16378/153194/b0ecc84c0e8abcf68f4bd26c7cbe1523.jpg

It didn't do any major damage to Worm from what we saw. He just got right back up. Tanking a punch from Uvogin is B- level easily.


But he's portrayed on the same level as Morel.

Hax? Yes. Experience? Yes. But Morel is a monster in terms of strength. Knov has no impressive feats in that area. I'm not saying he's fodder to Morel, but saying he's as good as Morel is a bit too much.


But what I said has better proof what you said.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know about the databooks, but Pitou is either just as good or better than Pouf. Youpi is portrayed to make up strength for intelligence. He isn't dumb too. Literally nothing puts him flat out below Pitou.


I consider him below Feitan, Phinks, and Nobunaga. Around Franklin's level, and above the rest.

But do you still want to put him at A-? Now, about Autopilot Shalnark. Why do you think he is A-?


She couldn't oneshot Pike, where Killua oneshotted Rammot. Killua is stronger, more durable, and faster. Even Killua is experienced himself.

You yourself said Officers are not all on the same level. Plus, Pike was not exactly an Officer, he was an assistant Squadron Leader. Killua's attacks are lethal, Shizuku's attacks are more basic. Could you prove any of that? Killua is not that experienced. He's a scrub to any real pro Hunter, and I guarantee you Shizuku isn't. Even now, he's less experienced than Knuckle or Shoot.


Godspeed Killua is extremely fast and his electricity haxxed. That's why he's A or A+. Experience won't matter a thing to overpowered stat or hax.

But it doesn't really increase his strength, versatility or experience. Yes, it does. This list is based on overall stats. Overall, Killua is definitely not better than Hisoka or Razor. If you put him at A+, that means he's on the same level as Chrollo OVERALL.


You don't find kids this powerful everywhere. Also where's the proof that he's as good as YN Gon and Killua? Killua is a lot stronger than Gon too.

Of course, but why would Nobunaga compliment him that way? It's like if Meruem fought Knov. Meruem is not going to compliment Knov just because 'you don't see people this strong everywhere'.


It's clear. She's not a combat type and they were worried about losing her. Her hax isn't combat type too, and her experience isn't the same as Morel. Knuckle had more experience, a lot more, and Gon still managed to fight him on close to equal footing.

So are Machi, Shalnark, Kortopi and even Chrollo. Chrollo is a lot more haxed than strong, and he's still A+. This isn't a strength list. Pakunoda at C+ is still something I can't understand. Pokkle is on the same level as a Ryodan member? That doesn't make sense on any level. Knuckle was just warming up and trying to teach Gon. He's also soft, so he wouldn't go all out. Yorknew Gon and Killua are B-, and they're confirmed weaker than Pakunoda.


Pakunoda didn't show many combat feats. Also why I'm saying that they don't use Nen because they don't show aura when they wrestle. When Gon used his aura when he wrestled Nobunaga, he defeated him. It was highlighted that Gon actually used aura when Nobunaga's hand was w/o any aura.

Okay.

Lanicard
03-14-2015, 03:47 PM
I don't think Gon is that much above Zushi, if at all. Killua was very impressed by Zushi's durability and Zushi had his ace in the hole. If Hunter exam Gon would win against Zushi, would be an high-extreme diff victory. We can't forget that Killua was considerably above Gon at this point. I can see him stomping Gon as easily as he did with Zushi.

Kane
03-14-2015, 04:03 PM
Tsezgerra's friends - B
Hunter Exam Gon - C
Hunter Exam Killua - C

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 08:52 PM
I don't think Gon is that much above Zushi, if at all. Killua was very impressed by Zushi's durability and Zushi had his ace in the hole. If Hunter exam Gon would win against Zushi, would be an high-extreme diff victory. We can't forget that Killua was considerably above Gon at this point. I can see him stomping Gon as easily as he did with Zushi.

Durability is only one stat, though. Zushi may have had insane durability but it didn't change anything. Killua was beating him around like a ragged doll while holding back. I highly doubt Gon was that much weaker than Killua. After Nen, they became equals. No reason to think Nen somehow gave Gon a bigger power up than it gave Killua?

How about we put Gon in C, but a notch (a line like -------) below Killua?


Tsezgerra's friends - B
Hunter Exam Gon - C
Hunter Exam Killua - C


Yes! Finally, someone wants to put Gon in C :cry

Why do you think Tsezgerra's friends were as good as Tsezgerra himself?

Kane
03-14-2015, 09:07 PM
Durability is only one stat, though. Zushi may have had insane durability but it didn't change anything. Killua was beating him around like a ragged doll while holding back. I highly doubt Gon was that much weaker than Killua. After Nen, they became equals. No reason to think Nen somehow gave Gon a bigger power up than it gave Killua?

How about we put Gon in C, but a notch (a line like -------) below Killua?



Yes! Finally, someone wants to put Gon in C :cry

Why do you think Tsezgerra's friends were as good as Tsezgerra himself?

The only thing Tsezgerra has going for him is the fact that he was the leader of the group and that was probably due to the fact that he was the most experienced and was a Single Star Hunter, but I don't think he was ever implied to be any stronger combat wise, could be wrong, though.

Yeah putting Gon in the same tier as Zushi is just no.

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 09:14 PM
So I'm thinking about putting base Biscuit in B. What do you guys think about this?


The only thing Tsezgerra has going for him is the fact that he was the leader of the group and that was probably due to the fact that he was the most experienced and was a Single Star Hunter, but I don't think he was ever implied to be any stronger combat wise, could be wrong, though.

Yeah putting Gon in the same tier as Zushi is just no.

This list isn't just about combat though - experience and skill are all counted. Tsezgerra's friends have no really good feats and there's no reason to think they're all on the same level as Tsezgerra.

I know, right? :smh

Kane
03-14-2015, 09:24 PM
So I'm thinking about putting base Biscuit in B. What do you guys think about this?

This list isn't just about combat though - experience and skill are all counted. Tsezgerra's friends have no really good feats and there's no reason to think they're all on the same level as Tsezgerra.

I know, right? :smh

Oh I didn't know that this list was supposed to take experience and skill into account.

If you want to get technical, Pre-Rose Meruem and The Royal Guard were babies. :smug

But anyway, if we are saying experience matters, than Tsezgerra can be above his friends. I'm just saying Tsezgerra has no combat feats that shows he is stronger than his friends.

As for Bisky, her base form is still > Gon and Killua in base. Should be at least Morel/Knov level.

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 09:35 PM
RenjiRaizen; Gon Freccss; Lanicard; Brohan; Pimp of Pimps; DoflaMihawk; What do you think? Should we put Tsezgerra's friends in B or B-, and should we put base Biscuit in B or B+?


Oh I didn't know that this list was supposed to take experience and skill into account.

If you want to get technical, Pre-Rose Meruem and The Royal Guard were babies. :smug

But anyway, if we are saying experience matters, than Tsezgerra can be above his friends. I'm just saying Tsezgerra has no combat feats that shows he is stronger than his friends.

As for Bisky, her base form is still > Gon and Killua in base. Should be at least Morel/Knov level.

Heh. If you want to get technical, Meruem and the Royal Guard surpassed the best Hunters while they were babies. Literally. :smug

The only thing they lack is experience. In overall skill, they're Netero level.

He's the leader of a group. Usually, the leader is the strongest and by a clear margin. But it's true that Tsezgerra's friends might be in the same tier. So I will consider putting them in B.

Eh, she did get stomped by Sub who I think is B. But she was holding back so yeah. I feel like Morel or Knov is kinda too much for base Bisky. She would definitely have to get serious to beat two Single Star Hunters. So how does B+ sound for Bisky?

Brohan
03-14-2015, 09:38 PM
It this is just a statistical tier list then I don't even care honestly. That's pointless for a series like this.

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 09:42 PM
It this is just a statistical tier list then I don't even care honestly. That's pointless for a series like this.

What do you mean? This is not a series where you can just say 'A beats B in a fight, so A is above B by a whole tier'. Experience and hax matters everywhere. You put people on the same level because of overall stats. It's no different from any other tier list. Netero's attacks did literally nothing to Meruem, he can't no-diff a Royal Guard.

DoflaMihawk
03-14-2015, 09:46 PM
RenjiRaizen; Gon Freccss; Lanicard; Brohan; Pimp of Pimps; DoflaMihawk; What do you think? Should we put Tsezgerra's friends in B or B-, and should we put base Biscuit in B or B+?

I'm still miffed about Ging being a whole tier above the RG. Shouldn't we vote on that?

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 09:48 PM
I'm still miffed about Ging being a whole tier above the RG. Shouldn't we vote on that?

Sure, but I want to hear your arguments first. Why do you think Ging is below S?

Brohan
03-14-2015, 09:49 PM
What do you mean? This is not a series where you can just say 'A beats B in a fight, so A is above B by a whole tier'. Experience and hax matters everywhere. You put people on the same level because of overall stats. It's no different from any other tier list. Netero's attacks did literally nothing to Meruem, he can't no-diff a Royal Guard.

No, a few of Netero's attacks drew blood I believe. They were definitely hurting him. At any rate, Meruem is astronomically above the RG so I don't see your point.

Netero stomps the RG because they can't deal with his Hatsu at all. They're less durable, slower, weaker, and most of all, unable to see through his millions of combos.

Freaking Pouf would get destroyed especially.

DoflaMihawk
03-14-2015, 09:53 PM
Sure, but I want to hear your arguments first. Why do you think Ging is below S?

Because there's no reason to put him that high. One of the top 5 nen users? Big whoop, that doesn't mean much considering we don't know the other four or how strong they are. If the author wanted Ging to be S level, why didn't he make it clear by having a character say something like 'He's stronger than Netero' rather than that vague top 5 statement?

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 09:56 PM
No, a few of Netero's attacks drew blood I believe. They were definitely hurting him. At any rate, Meruem is astronomically above the RG so I don't see your point.

Netero stomps the RG because they can't deal with his Hatsu at all. They're less durable, slower, weaker, and most of all, unable to see through his millions of combos.

Freaking Pouf would get destroyed especially.

Um, no, it didn't. Did you miss how Netero's attacks, to Meruem, were the equivalent of a child throwing a fit? :giogio Meruem's semi-serious attacks only bruised the RG. Meruem's casual attacks were ripping off Netero's limbs.

Yes, but he can stomp pretty much everyone that isn't Meruem or from the Dark Confinent. His insane speed is just one stat, the Royal Guard are on the same level in every other stat.

I really don't understand why so many think Pouf is weak. He is as good as Youpi or Pouf.

- - - Updated - - -


Because there's no reason to put him that high. One of the top 5 nen users? Big whoop, that doesn't mean much considering we don't know the other four or how strong they are. If the author wanted Ging to be S level, why didn't he make it clear by having a character say something like 'He's stronger than Netero' rather than that vague top 5 statement?

But top 5 is a big, big word. We're talking about millions or Nen users. Netero was out of shape and he no longer considered himself the WSM. This suggests at least a few gems are above him.

DoflaMihawk
03-14-2015, 10:00 PM
But top 5 is a big, big word. We're talking about millions or Nen users. Netero was out of shape and he no longer considered himself the WSM. This suggests at least a few gems are above him.

Perhaps. But Netero's a humble guy. I guess it comes down to opinion. Vote time.

Ging for S tier:
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk

Kane
03-14-2015, 10:09 PM
Ging for S tier:TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 10:14 PM
Eh, I'll put base Biscuit in B+ and Tsezgerra's friends in B- for now until someone disagrees. Remember, guys, we still have to decide where Kalluto, Kurapika, Beyond, Hunter Exam Gon and Hunter Exam Killua are.


Perhaps. But Netero's a humble guy. I guess it comes down to opinion. Vote time.

Ging for S tier:
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk

Netero is indeed humble, but he was rusty. That's a definite fact. And Ging and the like might be exploring the Dark Continent soon, and that place has SS level creatures.

@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); @Lanicard (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=951); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689); @Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); You guys should vote too.

I actually think Ging is above Netero but not S, but since so many people wanted it, I put him in S anyway :p

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, King Meruem

- - - Updated - - -


Ging for S tier:TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk

Why do you want to put Ging in S? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Shunssj
03-14-2015, 10:19 PM
Um, no, it didn't. Did you miss how Netero's attacks, to Meruem, were the equivalent of a child throwing a fit? :giogio Meruem's semi-serious attacks only bruised the RG. Meruem's casual attacks were ripping off Netero's limbs.

Yes, but he can stomp pretty much everyone that isn't Meruem or from the Dark Confinent. His insane speed is just one stat, the Royal Guard are on the same level in every other stat.

I really don't understand why so many think Pouf is weak. He is as good as Youpi or Pouf.

- - - Updated - - -



But top 5 is a big, big word. We're talking about millions or Nen users. Netero was out of shape and he no longer considered himself the WSM. This suggests at least a few gems are above him.
looks like some blood to me

1742

Killua Zoldyck
03-14-2015, 10:22 PM
looks like some blood to me

I can't see that scan properly. Anyway, what attack did Netero use there? Because I'm talking about Netero's basic Hatsu, not Zero. Netero's Hatsu only gave Meruem slight hints of dull pain. Re-read the fight.

Kane
03-14-2015, 10:30 PM
Eh, I'll put base Biscuit in B+ and Tsezgerra's friends in B- for now until someone disagrees. Remember, guys, we still have to decide where Kalluto, Kurapika, Beyond, Hunter Exam Gon and Hunter Exam Killua are.



Netero is indeed humble, but he was rusty. That's a definite fact. And Ging and the like might be exploring the Dark Continent soon, and that place has SS level creatures.

@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); @Lanicard (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=951); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689); @Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); You guys should vote too.

I actually think Ging is above Netero but not S, but since so many people wanted it, I put him in S anyway :p

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, King Meruem

- - - Updated - - -



Why do you want to put Ging in S? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
My boy Ging is one of the top 5 Nen users in the world and he talked down to Pariston (gives off the impression he can deal with him easily), caught Razor, is a Double Star Hunter who could qualify for a Triple Star license, and was gonna go to the DC which is what guys like Prime Netero did.

RenjiRaizen
03-14-2015, 11:20 PM
Yes, it is. Everybody's help is needed, man! If you don't want to help, then okay, but we need everybody's opinions to advance the list. Please at least give your thoughts once in a while.



Yeah, this is the list I would go with. Who do you think is stronger, Hunter Exam Gon or Zushi? If Gon is stronger than Zushi by a large margin, I might put him in C- but a notch above Zushi :hmm
@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); Are you sure Tsezgerra's friends are C+? They were stomping Razor's 'fake' Devils and are all pro hunters. I'd say they're B- level, but I want to hear your thoughts.



But you said there's no piece of info we have on Zzigg... I was just disproving you. Zzigg is most likely Prime Netero level. Like you said, it's possible he's in the DC and like Don level but that has no proof.



He's an amateur at Nen. Zushi wouldn't use Ren in a typical fight because Wing doesn't allow him to. Killua was just panicking becasue Zushi released a similar type of aura to Illumi. Don't tell me Zushi's Ren is as good as Illumi's Ren :lmao



Of course, but is there any proof that officer was weaker than Rammot? No reason to think it was exceptionally weak or something. Rammot was even one-shotted by Killua, I doubt the same thing could happen to Kalluto.



But that still proves how much of a master they are. Hax and experience does matter here. Why do you think some of the weakest Ants are above the Injyuu?



It didn't do any major damage to Worm from what we saw. He just got right back up. Tanking a punch from Uvogin is B- level easily.



Hax? Yes. Experience? Yes. But Morel is a monster in terms of strength. Knov has no impressive feats in that area. I'm not saying he's fodder to Morel, but saying he's as good as Morel is a bit too much.



Maybe, maybe not. I don't know about the databooks, but Pitou is either just as good or better than Pouf. Youpi is portrayed to make up strength for intelligence. He isn't dumb too. Literally nothing puts him flat out below Pitou.



But do you still want to put him at A-? Now, about Autopilot Shalnark. Why do you think he is A-?



You yourself said Officers are not all on the same level. Plus, Pike was not exactly an Officer, he was an assistant Squadron Leader. Killua's attacks are lethal, Shizuku's attacks are more basic. Could you prove any of that? Killua is not that experienced. He's a scrub to any real pro Hunter, and I guarantee you Shizuku isn't. Even now, he's less experienced than Knuckle or Shoot.



But it doesn't really increase his strength, versatility or experience. Yes, it does. This list is based on overall stats. Overall, Killua is definitely not better than Hisoka or Razor. If you put him at A+, that means he's on the same level as Chrollo OVERALL.



Of course, but why would Nobunaga compliment him that way? It's like if Meruem fought Knov. Meruem is not going to compliment Knov just because 'you don't see people this people everywhere'.



So are Machi, Shalnark, Kortopi and even Chrollo. Chrollo is a lot more haxed than strong, and he's still A+. This isn't a strength list. Pakunoda at C+ is still something I can't understand. Pokkle is on the same level as a Ryodan member? That doesn't make sense on any level. Knuckle was just warming up and trying to teach Gon. He's also soft, so he wouldn't go all out. Yorknew Gon and Killua are B-, and they're confirmed weaker than Pakunoda.



Okay.

Well, if you think I can help, then I'll keep givin an opinion.

Thdyingbreed
03-15-2015, 01:48 AM
Why is Ging is the same tier as Netero when nothing indicates that he is anywhere near that strong I would say that at best I could see Ging being as strong as the Royal Guard are and the only Zoldyck who should be in that tier is Maha because he was able to fight against a Prime Netero.

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, King Meruem, Thdyingbreed

Pimp of Pimps
03-15-2015, 02:16 AM
Why is Ging is the same tier as Netero when nothing indicates that he is anywhere near that strong I would say that at best I could see Ging being as strong as the Royal Guard are and the only Zoldyck who should be in that tier is Maha because he was able to fight against a Prime Netero.

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, King Meruem, Thdyingbreed


Ging is one of the top 5 humans in the world, maybe top 4 now if Netero was counting himself. Don't really see where this idea that old NEtero was for sure lightyears ahead of him comes from.

Maha I think was a good step below Netero. He would have tried sneaking up on the guy, hich is a huge advantage, ut never managed to kill him.

Thdyingbreed
03-15-2015, 02:55 AM
Ging is one of the top 5 humans in the world, maybe top 4 now if Netero was counting himself. Don't really see where this idea that old NEtero was for sure lightyears ahead of him comes from.

Maha I think was a good step below Netero. He would have tried sneaking up on the guy, hich is a huge advantage, ut never managed to kill him.Netero was considered to be the strongest man alive even in his old age that automatically places Ging and the rest of other people in the top 5 below him and this was even Netero before his training since he considered Pitou above himself at that point Netero was a good deal ahead of everyone else.

I think if he did a sneak attack on him it would of been stated that he did so and regardless of whether or not it was he was still able to survive a fight against a Prime Netero which is a great feat in of itself.

Kane
03-15-2015, 03:15 AM
Netero was considered to be the strongest man alive even in his old age that automatically places Ging and the rest of other people in the top 5 below him and this was even Netero before his training since he considered Pitou above himself at that point Netero was a good deal ahead of everyone else.

I think if he did a sneak attack on him it would of been stated that he did so and regardless of whether or not it was he was still able to survive a fight against a Prime Netero which is a great feat in of itself.
When was it said that Netero was the strongest man alive?

Thdyingbreed
03-15-2015, 03:24 AM
When was it said that Netero was the strongest man alive?It was stated by Morel and Knov when they went after the Chimera Ant Queen.

EDIT:

Actually scratch that just reread that chapter forgot that Netero had stated that title was from when he was his prime that his strength had declined since then so I guess that leaves room for the top 4 to at least be somewhat comparable to Netero.

Killua Zoldyck
03-15-2015, 06:54 AM
@Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); So are you voting for Ging in S?

Everyone who's voting, do you think Beyond deserves to be in S? His name is literally 'Beyond' Netero.


My boy Ging is one of the top 5 Nen users in the world and he talked down to Pariston (gives off the impression he can deal with him easily), caught Razor, is a Double Star Hunter who could qualify for a Triple Star license, and was gonna go to the DC which is what guys like Prime Netero did.

Pariston and Razor are like A+ level though. Oh, I moved Razor to A+ since it seems like he's a lot stronger than A level people like Hisoka or Bisky. I don't think anyone would mind it.

You know what, I'll change votes. What we're doing is pure speculation, but Ging is a legendary Hunter and should be the equivalent of Maha or Zzigg for Gon. Not really so sudden he's as strong as Prime Netero.

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro, King Meruem
Ging for S- tier: DoflaMihawk, Thdyingbreed


Well, if you think I can help, then I'll keep givin an opinion.

Great! Now where do you want to put Ging?


Why is Ging is the same tier as Netero when nothing indicates that he is anywhere near that strong I would say that at best I could see Ging being as strong as the Royal Guard are and the only Zoldyck who should be in that tier is Maha because he was able to fight against a Prime Netero.

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, King Meruem, Thdyingbreed

Because Ging is a role model for Gon and shouldn't be any less than Maha. He is Triple Star Hunter material and one of the top 5 in the world. Old Netero was out of shape and he degraded so much in strength. You can't be telling me there isn't even 5 people stronger than that Netero. Maha is a definite S.

Prime Netero was the world's strongest man bar Don, but not Old.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Zzigg went on an expedition to the Dark Continent with Prime Netero. Maha isn't the only Zoldyck comparable to Netero.

Lanicard
03-15-2015, 12:22 PM
Durability is only one stat, though. Zushi may have had insane durability but it didn't change anything. Killua was beating him around like a ragged doll while holding back. I highly doubt Gon was that much weaker than Killua. After Nen, they became equals. No reason to think Nen somehow gave Gon a bigger power up than it gave Killua?

How about we put Gon in C, but a notch (a line like -------) below Killua?

Killua would do the same to Gon. Killua could open the third gate while Gon suffered to open the first. That's a big difference to me and to add Killua is more experienced than Gon. The only moment Gon closed the different by a bit was when Killua went to Hunter exam again and Gon trained alone with Biscuit.

You have the example of the graphic, Killua is only a little bit behind Hanzo while Gon is miles away.

I still defend Gon to C-, because I think he's closer to Zushi than to Killua and that Killua is on another level.

- - - Updated - - -

Tzegerrra's friends in B-, Base Biscuit in B+. Why is Shalnark in B?

Killua Zoldyck
03-15-2015, 12:51 PM
Killua would do the same to Gon. Killua could open the third gate while Gon suffered to open the first. That's a big difference to me and to add Killua is more experienced than Gon. The only moment Gon closed the different by a bit was when Killua went to Hunter exam again and Gon trained alone with Biscuit.

You have the example of the graphic, Killua is only a little bit behind Hanzo while Gon is miles away.

I still defend Gon to C-, because I think he's closer to Zushi than to Killua and that Killua is on another level.

- - - Updated - - -

Tzegerrra's friends in B-, Base Biscuit in B+. Why is Shalnark in B?

That is true, but I think Biscuit said that Killua has always been stronger, but Gon makes up for it with several factors. I would put Gon in C but a line below Killua, or in C- but a line above Zushi. How do you find this idea?

Gon was definitely much stronger than Zushi. His talent was equal with Killua at the Heavens Arena.

Cool. That's base Shalnark. He couldn't defeat an Officer so I figured he was solid B since I think the Injyuu are B-.

Anyhow, do you want to put Ging in S or S-?

Lanicard
03-15-2015, 01:06 PM
That is true, but I think Biscuit said that Killua has always been stronger, but Gon makes up for it with several factors. I would put Gon in C but a line below Killua, or in C- but a line above Zushi. How do you find this idea?

Gon was definitely much stronger than Zushi. His talent was equal with Killua at the Heavens Arena.

Cool. That's base Shalnark. He couldn't defeat an Officer so I figured he was solid B since I think the Injyuu are B-.

Anyhow, do you want to put Ging in S or S-?
Only when he learned Nen, but we're talking about Hunter exam Gon here. I could go with your ideia.

I would put Ging in S-.

Gon Freccss
03-15-2015, 01:13 PM
@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); Are you sure Tsezgerra's friends are C+? They were stomping Razor's 'fake' Devils and are all pro hunters. I'd say they're B- level, but I want to hear your thoughts.This doesn't put them on par with post-Nen Chimera Ants. Putting them in C+ would be the best thing.




But you said there's no piece of info we have on Zzigg... I was just disproving you. Zzigg is most likely Prime Netero level. Like you said, it's possible he's in the DC and like Don level but that has no proof.It's likely that he's that strong, but no solid placement. I'll definitely be laughing once we find out that Zzigg is 10 OP.




He's an amateur at Nen. Zushi wouldn't use Ren in a typical fight because Wing doesn't allow him to. Killua was just panicking becasue Zushi released a similar type of aura to Illumi. Don't tell me Zushi's Ren is as good as Illumi's Ren :lmaoHe was an amateur at Nen first. Did you forget that the three of them spent months training and that Zushi could use Ren after all of those months of training? He could even use Gyo briefly. It's obviously not as good, but generally any Nen user > non-Nen user.




Of course, but is there any proof that officer was weaker than Rammot? No reason to think it was exceptionally weak or something. Rammot was even one-shotted by Killua, I doubt the same thing could happen to Kalluto.Rammot could beat up Killua (who was panicking of course) around. There's no doubt that Rammot is one of the strongest, if not, the strongest officer.




But that still proves how much of a master they are. Hax and experience does matter here. Why do you think some of the weakest Ants are above the Injyuu?Pre-Nen? I don't think so. But post-Nen, I'd say so.




It didn't do any major damage to Worm from what we saw. He just got right back up. Tanking a punch from Uvogin is B- level easily.It DID do major damage. It absolutely wrecked him. He did get right back up, he just held Uvogin and went into the ground. Also when the worm punched Uvogin, his hand got wrecked by just simply punching Uvogin.




Hax? Yes. Experience? Yes. But Morel is a monster in terms of strength. Knov has no impressive feats in that area. I'm not saying he's fodder to Morel, but saying he's as good as Morel is a bit too much.Knov is a Conjurer and Morel is a Manipulator. Both equally far away from the Enhancement area. In pure physical strength, Morel is most likely stronger. When it comes to Nen, Knov shouldn't be that far away from Morel.




Maybe, maybe not. I don't know about the databooks, but Pitou is either just as good or better than Pouf. Youpi is portrayed to make up strength for intelligence. He isn't dumb too. Literally nothing puts him flat out below Pitou.Rest assured. Pitou is the most powerful RG. Databook stated it, and her hype too. Also her showing against Meruem's swipe help to prove what I'm saying.




But do you still want to put him at A-? Now, about Autopilot Shalnark. Why do you think he is A-?Well, do whatever what you want. When it comes down to me, putting him at the top of the former rank wouldn't be too hard imo. Autopilot Shalnark should be on par w/ Uvogin. So that why I was saying he should be put in A-. Shalnark didn't do much outside of oneshotting a solider and an officer (a really weak one at that).




You yourself said Officers are not all on the same level. Plus, Pike was not exactly an Officer, he was an assistant Squadron Leader. Killua's attacks are lethal, Shizuku's attacks are more basic. Could you prove any of that? Killua is not that experienced. He's a scrub to any real pro Hunter, and I guarantee you Shizuku isn't. Even now, he's less experienced than Knuckle or Shoot.Pike is an Officer. Killua's attacks are more powerful. Even Shizuku's 29 strikes did superficial damage to Pike. Killua is definitely above her. Killua managed to blitz Rammot. Shizuku didn't. He's experienced when it comes to killing.




But it doesn't really increase his strength, versatility or experience. Yes, it does. This list is based on overall stats. Overall, Killua is definitely not better than Hisoka or Razor. If you put him at A+, that means he's on the same level as Chrollo OVERALL.It increases your strength and versatility. His speed would undoubtedly increase strength, and having speed that's much faster than mostly anyone in HxH would make hims more versatile obviously when he's against powerful people. He's not overall as powerful as Chrollo obviously, but that's where he is. If we're ranking based on every stats, then Killua would rank even above Meruem due to his overkill speed.




Of course, but why would Nobunaga compliment him that way? It's like if Meruem fought Knov. Meruem is not going to compliment Knov just because 'you don't see people this strong everywhere'.Nobunaga is a human and meets powerful people on probably and nearly a daily basis. Of course when he sees kids who only know the basics that powerful, he would compliment them. Meruem won't compliment him because he's not a human. Meruem doesn't care if he met people strong in any way (exceptions are made though).




So are Machi, Shalnark, Kortopi and even Chrollo. Chrollo is a lot more haxed than strong, and he's still A+. This isn't a strength list. Pakunoda at C+ is still something I can't understand. Pokkle is on the same level as a Ryodan member? That doesn't make sense on any level. Knuckle was just warming up and trying to teach Gon. He's also soft, so he wouldn't go all out. Yorknew Gon and Killua are B-, and they're confirmed weaker than Pakunoda.Chrollo is a combat type. He was even fighting two of the strongest people in the verse and even succeeded in hitting one of them. Pakunoda should be above Pokkle. Use your -------- here. How many times have I stated this? Knuckle went straight up full power at the beginning of their last battle, and Gon managed to keep up. I'd say that Yorknew Gon and Killua are B-.




Okay.Great.


@RenjiRaizen (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5522); @Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); @Lanicard (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=951); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689); @Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); @DoflaMihawk (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=520); What do you think? Should we put Tsezgerra's friends in B or B-, and should we put base Biscuit in B or B+?Tsezguerra's friends should be in C+ imo, above Pokkle though. Base Biscuit should be A, next to Hisoka. Razor portrayed both Hisoka and Biscuit at the same level. Her Ko while moving at absolutely slow speeds and not putting her strength could blow Gon w/ Ken away. Real form Biscuit should be at A+.


Eh, I'll put base Biscuit in B+ and Tsezgerra's friends in B- for now until someone disagrees. Remember, guys, we still have to decide where Kalluto, Kurapika, Beyond, Hunter Exam Gon and Hunter Exam Killua are.Kalluto at possibly B. Kurapika at A. Beyond should be S level at least. Hunter Exam Gon and Killua below Zushi in C-. You should probably make D+ for them :P .



@Gon Freccss (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=5456); @Lanicard (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=951); @Brohan (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=689); @Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); You guys should vote too.Ging at least at S level.

RenjiRaizen
03-15-2015, 03:54 PM
@Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); So are you voting for Ging in S?

Everyone who's voting, do you think Beyond deserves to be in S? His name is literally 'Beyond' Netero.



Pariston and Razor are like A+ level though. Oh, I moved Razor to A+ since it seems like he's a lot stronger than A level people like Hisoka or Bisky. I don't think anyone would mind it.

You know what, I'll change votes. What we're doing is pure speculation, but Ging is a legendary Hunter and should be the equivalent of Maha or Zzigg for Gon. Not really so sudden he's as strong as Prime Netero.

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro, King Meruem
Ging for S- tier: DoflaMihawk, Thdyingbreed



Great! Now where do you want to put Ging?



Because Ging is a role model for Gon and shouldn't be any less than Maha. He is Triple Star Hunter material and one of the top 5 in the world. Old Netero was out of shape and he degraded so much in strength. You can't be telling me there isn't even 5 people stronger than that Netero. Maha is a definite S.

Prime Netero was the world's strongest man bar Don, but not Old.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Zzigg went on an expedition to the Dark Continent with Prime Netero. Maha isn't the only Zoldyck comparable to Netero.




I'd say at or below Netero

Killua Zoldyck
03-15-2015, 04:54 PM
Alright, voters so far:

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro, King Meruem, Gon Freccss
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, Thdyingbreed, Lanicard

@Pimp of Pimps (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=14); Where do you want to put Ging?


I'd say at or below Netero

Prime Netero or Old Netero?


Only when he learned Nen, but we're talking about Hunter exam Gon here. I could go with your ideia.

But I'm saying - why would Gon get a much bigger power up than Killua? Gon's forte isn't strength to begin with. So, should Gon be top of C- or bottom of C?

I added Hunter Exam Killua to C, everyone besides Gon seems to share that consensus.


This doesn't put them on par with post-Nen Chimera Ants. Putting them in C+ would be the best thing.

Those are some of the weakest ants. Think about it. Greed Island Gon and Killua manhandled ants like them, and Tsezgerra is at least as good as them in some areas. It's implied that Tsezgerra's friends are comparable to Tsezgerra too. B- is a safe estimate imo.


It's likely that he's that strong, but no solid placement. I'll definitely be laughing once we find out that Zzigg is 10 OP.

Well, benefit of the doubt for now.


He was an amateur at Nen first. Did you forget that the three of them spent months training and that Zushi could use Ren after all of those months of training? He could even use Gyo briefly. It's obviously not as good, but generally any Nen user > non-Nen user.

Even after that, he was still not nearly as good as Gon or Killua. His growth rate didn't even compare to Gon or Killua, and he could just barely use Gyo. Zushi needed many punches to take down the people at Heavens Arena, Gon only needed to push them lightly. We don't know how good current Zushi is.


Rammot could beat up Killua (who was panicking of course) around. There's no doubt that Rammot is one of the strongest, if not, the strongest officer.

Like you literally said, Killua was panicking and going through mental depression. He was clearly not at full power. I didn't say that Officer was stronger than Rammot, but I think they're at least on the same level.


Pre-Nen? I don't think so. But post-Nen, I'd say so.

It DID do major damage. It absolutely wrecked him. He did get right back up, he just held Uvogin and went into the ground. Also when the worm punched Uvogin, his hand got wrecked by just simply punching Uvogin.

You got me there but getting stomped by Uvogin isn't a bad feat. The Injyuu are pros that made people like Basho and Dalzonelle look like jokes. In every way, C+ is too low for them.


Knov is a Conjurer and Morel is a Manipulator. Both equally far away from the Enhancement area. In pure physical strength, Morel is most likely stronger. When it comes to Nen, Knov shouldn't be that far away from Morel.

Not offensive Nen. All the feats suggest Knov is more like an assassin than a straight up fighter. His confidence is inferior to even Gon and Killua.


Rest assured. Pitou is the most powerful RG. Databook stated it, and her hype too. Also her showing against Meruem's swipe help to prove what I'm saying.

Not really. Meruem's swipes all only bruised the RG. There is no hype that puts her straight above Youpi and Pouf. Pouf is more intelligent, more versatile and more haxed, and Youpi is physically stronger. They balance each other out. I don't really trust databooks to be honest.


Well, do whatever what you want. When it comes down to me, putting him at the top of the former rank wouldn't be too hard imo. Autopilot Shalnark should be on par w/ Uvogin. So that why I was saying he should be put in A-. Shalnark didn't do much outside of oneshotting a solider and an officer (a really weak one at that).

Why? I will admit the guys in A might be stronger than Uvogin, but Uvo a whole tier below them? That is proofless. Autopilot Shalnark seemed really overpowered to me. I don't see why he would be in A- with people like Shizuku.


Pike is an Officer. Killua's attacks are more powerful. Even Shizuku's 29 strikes did superficial damage to Pike. Killua is definitely above her. Killua managed to blitz Rammot. Shizuku didn't. He's experienced when it comes to killing.

Pike is an Assistant Squadron Leader like Flutter or Hina. Ants' durability is insane. Killua is still only as good as Gon, who is lower than Knuckle in most areas. Not as much as Knuckle or Shoot. They are far older and have been in more fights. Shizuku is most likely more experienced than both of them.


It increases your strength and versatility. His speed would undoubtedly increase strength, and having speed that's much faster than mostly anyone in HxH would make hims more versatile obviously when he's against powerful people. He's not overall as powerful as Chrollo obviously, but that's where he is. If we're ranking based on every stats, then Killua would rank even above Meruem due to his overkill speed.

It obviously increase strength but we don't know to what degree. We've never seen him take down a guy at A or A+. This list is based on the total of every stat. Killua is definitely not as good as Uvogin or Nobunaga overall. Chrollo is a joke and Meruem is just...


Chrollo is a combat type. He was even fighting two of the strongest people in the verse and even succeeded in hitting one of them. Pakunoda should be above Pokkle. Use your -------- here. How many times have I stated this? Knuckle went straight up full power at the beginning of their last battle, and Gon managed to keep up. I'd say that Yorknew Gon and Killua are B-.

He's obviously not. It's just because his physical abilities are impressive. All of his abilities are in some way hax or tricky. A combat type is someone like Uvogin or Nobunaga. Just because your abilities are not combat-oriented doesn't make you weak. Knuckle was still being soft against Gon and Gon wasn't really at even terms with him. Pakunoda was definitely stronger than Yorknew Gon and Killua. Why put them at B- but Pakunoda at C+?


Tsezgerra's friends should be in C+ mo, above Pokkle though. Base Biscuit should be A, next to Hisoka. Razor portrayed both Hisoka and Biscuit at the same level. Her Ko while moving at absolutely slow speeds and not putting her strength could blow Gon w/ Ken away. Real form Biscuit should be at A+.

No, Razor was referring to Biscuit's true potential, her real form. Biscuit is at best A- or something. B+ is safest since her blows weren't doing much to someone like Sub although she was holding back. Ko is ridiculously above Ken.

RenjiRaizen
03-15-2015, 05:26 PM
I'd say prime.

Killua Zoldyck
03-15-2015, 06:37 PM
I'd say prime.

Cool.

Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro, King Meruem, Gon Freccss, RenjiRaizen
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, Thdyingbreed, Lanicard
Pimp of Pimps; Decide where you want to put Ging. Your vote is the decider.

Pimp of Pimps
03-15-2015, 06:54 PM
Ging for S tier: TheBaldHeadedNegro, King Meruem, Gon Freccss, RenjiRaizen, Pimp of Pimps
Ging lower than S tier: DoflaMihawk, Thdyingbreed, Lanicard

Killua Zoldyck
03-15-2015, 07:25 PM
Alright, Ging will stay in S.

Now, where should we put Beyond? I think he's a safe S but I want to hear what other people think first.

Gon Freccss
03-16-2015, 01:47 PM
Those are some of the weakest ants. Think about it. Greed Island Gon and Killua manhandled ants like them, and Tsezgerra is at least as good as them in some areas. It's implied that Tsezgerra's friends are comparable to Tsezgerra too. B- is a safe estimate imo.Those were pre-Nen Ants. Tsezguerra's friends are not comparable to him at all. It was suggested throughout GI that Tsezguerra was the strongest of his group and by a lead.



Well, benefit of the doubt for now.




Even after that, he was still not nearly as good as Gon or Killua. His growth rate didn't even compare to Gon or Killua, and he could just barely use Gyo. Zushi needed many punches to take down the people at Heavens Arena, Gon only needed to push them lightly. We don't know how good current Zushi is.You're right, but he'd be obviously above pre-Nen Killua and Gon. He could outright baptize him and I'm pretty sure he could beat them up in a fight.

That's because Zushi wasn't using Nen. W/o Nen, Killua >>> Gon >>> Zushi. But with Nen, it would make him above Killua.




Like you literally said, Killua was panicking and going through mental depression. He was clearly not at full power. I didn't say that Officer was stronger than Rammot, but I think they're at least on the same level.I'm pretty sure Togashi hyped Rammot to be the strongest officer.




You got me there but getting stomped by Uvogin isn't a bad feat. The Injyuu are pros that made people like Basho and Dalzonelle look like jokes. In every way, C+ is too low for them.Bashi and Dalzonelle aren't worth anything, at all. Shadow Beasts are weak. They may be stronger than pre-Nen solider ants, but not post-Nen ants.




Not offensive Nen. All the feats suggest Knov is more like an assassin than a straight up fighter. His confidence is inferior to even Gon and Killua.His Nen is more offensive that Morel's. It's like Kakashi's MS but he can use it with his hand unlike Kakashi w/ his eyes. I'd still say that Morel is probably better. That's because he faced Pouf's En while in Zetsu and he was still worried about them catching him, torturing him, and finding a way to exterminate humanity. That's why he had a breakdown.




Not really. Meruem's swipes all only bruised the RG. There is no hype that puts her straight above Youpi and Pouf. Pouf is more intelligent, more versatile and more haxed, and Youpi is physically stronger. They balance each other out. I don't really trust databooks to be honest.It bruised them, but who was sent flying away? Youpi and Pouf. Why don't you trust them if we don't have direct statements? Pitou was hyped to be the strongest (not on a whole different league though).




Why? I will admit the guys in A might be stronger than Uvogin, but Uvo a whole tier below them? That is proofless. Autopilot Shalnark seemed really overpowered to me. I don't see why he would be in A- with people like Shizuku.That doesn't mean he's way weaker though. Everyone in the A rank is stronger than Uvo. You see, the problem is with you putting Shizuku in the A- rank. She should be B- as I said earlier.




Pike is an Assistant Squadron Leader like Flutter or Hina. Ants' durability is insane. Killua is still only as good as Gon, who is lower than Knuckle in most areas. Not as much as Knuckle or Shoot. They are far older and have been in more fights. Shizuku is most likely more experienced than both of them.Where was that stated? Looking at the wiki and from what I remember, he's an officer. Knuckle is strong, you're just downplaying him. So being a little lower than Knuckle isn't that of a big deal. Shizuku would get stomped by Killua imo. Even Yorknew Gon beat her in arm wrestling, though she used her weaker hand, and they probably didn't use Nen there.




It obviously increase strength but we don't know to what degree. We've never seen him take down a guy at A or A+. This list is based on the total of every stat. Killua is definitely not as good as Uvogin or Nobunaga overall. Chrollo is a joke and Meruem is just...He did take down Pouf who's over A level w/ his electricity.




He's obviously not. It's just because his physical abilities are impressive. All of his abilities are in some way hax or tricky. A combat type is someone like Uvogin or Nobunaga. Just because your abilities are not combat-oriented doesn't make you weak. Knuckle was still being soft against Gon and Gon wasn't really at even terms with him. Pakunoda was definitely stronger than Yorknew Gon and Killua. Why put them at B- but Pakunoda at C+?But she showed absolutely no notable feats and the troupe were actually scared to lose her. Knuckle wasn't being soft. He was fulfilling Gon's promise by going all out. Well, this tier list is flawed. We actually need more space.




No, Razor was referring to Biscuit's true potential, her real form. Biscuit is at best A- or something. B+ is safest since her blows weren't doing much to someone like Sub although she was holding back. Ko is ridiculously above Ken.How did he know about that? He doesn't know anything but the Biscuit he's seeing. Biscuit actually was portrayed to be as powerful as Hisoka, as they both dodged it in the same fashion.


Alright, Ging will stay in S.

Now, where should we put Beyond? I think he's a safe S but I want to hear what other people think first.Beyond should be between Old Netero and Prime Netero. With the hype that's going around, he can be even more powerful than that.

Killua Zoldyck
03-18-2015, 04:56 PM
The discussion suddenly stopped. Come on, guys, let's work on Beyond. Where do you want to put him?
TheBaldHeadedNegro; Pimp of Pimps; DoflaMihawk; Lanicard; RenjiRaizen; Thdyingbreed;


Those were pre-Nen Ants. Tsezguerra's friends are not comparable to him at all. It was suggested throughout GI that Tsezguerra was the strongest of his group and by a lead.

Nen didn't give a HUGE boost to those Ants as far as we know. I really don't think current Gon and Killua could stomp Tsezgerra. It was? Tsezgerra is obviously the strongest, but by two whole tiers? It was implied that every one in his group was a pro.


You're right, but he'd be obviously above pre-Nen Killua and Gon. He could outright baptize him and I'm pretty sure he could beat them up in a fight.

That's because Zushi wasn't using Nen. W/o Nen, Killua >>> Gon >>> Zushi. But with Nen, it would make him above Killua.

Baptism only works when your Nen is far above the opponent's strength. That's not the case here. Killua only got scared of Zushi's Ren because it was similar to what Illumi did.

Zushi was using Nen, he wasn't using Ren. He still can't use Ren because Wing doesn't allow him to. He probably can't control it either. We don't know how strong current Zushi is.


I'm pretty sure Togashi hyped Rammot to be the strongest officer.

He didn't. Rammot doesn't even have the best feats or hax, and he's not a sub Squadron Leader.


Bashi and Dalzonelle aren't worth anything, at all. Shadow Beasts are weak. They may be stronger than pre-Nen solider ants, but not post-Nen ants.

Basho and Dalzonelle both have Nen, hax and are fairly strong. They're certainly C level at least. And you've literally made no new arguments, at all. The Injyuu survived a long time against Uvogin, with their hax and experience. That puts them above C+ which is for fodders like Pokkle.


His Nen is more offensive that Morel's. It's like Kakashi's MS but he can use it with his hand unlike Kakashi w/ his eyes. I'd still say that Morel is probably better. That's because he faced Pouf's En while in Zetsu and he was still worried about them catching him, torturing him, and finding a way to exterminate humanity. That's why he had a breakdown.

Wha? :gilogio Knov's Nen is solely for the purpose of running away, healing and coming back again. How on earth is that even offensive? Again, you've made no real new arguments. Morel is stronger, more haxed, more endurable, more durable and more long lasting. Knov is quite a bit below him, but everyone else in A- is at least comparable to Morel.


It bruised them, but who was sent flying away? Youpi and Pouf. Why don't you trust them if we don't have direct statements? Pitou was hyped to be the strongest (not on a whole different league though).

Fine, I'll concede. But you're talking about base Youpi, not Centaur Youpi. Do you at least accept that Centaur Youpi and Pitou are equals/Youpi is stronger by a bit? :hmm


That doesn't mean he's way weaker though. Everyone in the A rank is stronger than Uvo. You see, the problem is with you putting Shizuku in the A- rank. She should be B- as I said earlier.

B- is ridiculous. AT LEAST B or B+. Shizuku would have low-diffed Pike if not for Pike's webs. You saw what happened when those fought in close quarters. Shizuku is a Ryodan member, you're forgetting that. Besides, Autopilot Shalnark still seemed extremely overpowered. I doubt Phinks or Nobunaga could beat him easily.


Where was that stated? Looking at the wiki and from what I remember, he's an officer. Knuckle is strong, you're just downplaying him. So being a little lower than Knuckle isn't that of a big deal. Shizuku would get stomped by Killua imo. Even Yorknew Gon beat her in arm wrestling, though she used her weaker hand, and they probably didn't use Nen there.

He's an Officer but there's apparently a mini-rank between Officer and Squadron Leader. Any second-hand to an SL is an assistant Squadron Leader. Pike is Zazan's second-hand. Knuckle isn't nearly as good as Cheetu or Morel. I'm certainly not downplaying him. You know what, even I'm starting to doubt my opinion. How about we move Shizuku to B+? As good/experienced/hax as Knuckle or Shoot, but not on the same level as top SLs? :hmm


He did take down Pouf who's over A level w/ his electricity.

A clone of a massively weakened Pouf.


But she showed absolutely no notable feats and the troupe were actually scared to lose her. Knuckle wasn't being soft. He was fulfilling Gon's promise by going all out. Well, this tier list is flawed. We actually need more space.

They were scared of losing Chrollo too. Even Franklin and Nobunaga have absolutely no real feats, but we know they're still A level. Absolutely no reason to think Pakunoda is fodder to everyone else. Only Kortopi might be fodder to the rest based on portrayal. What space would you recommend?


How did he know about that? He doesn't know anything but the Biscuit he's seeing. Biscuit actually was portrayed to be as powerful as Hisoka, as they both dodged it in the same fashion.

He's a Nen master, it's not like child Biscuit and true form Biscuit are two different people. Even Binolt wasn't really intimidated until he saw her true strength. Child Biscuit was still injured by someone as weak as Sub, although holfing back. That's true, but it's just reaction speed. Even Killua dodged it better than Hisoka, nothing really important.


Beyond should be between Old Netero and Prime Netero. With the hype that's going around, he can be even more powerful than that.

Cool.

Thdyingbreed
03-18-2015, 05:06 PM
There really hasn't been any indication of Beyond's strength but I would say the obvious place would be in S since he's likely going to be acting as the Antagonist for the Dark Continent arc so he should be strong enough to hold his own against Ging in a fight.

And Maha should be added into S there's really no reason not to list him since we have a good idea of where he stands.

Killua Zoldyck
03-18-2015, 05:14 PM
There really hasn't been any indication of Beyond's strength but I would say the obvious place would be in S since he's likely going to be acting as the Antagonist for the Dark Continent arc so he should be strong enough to hold his own against Ging in a fight.

And Maha should be added into S there's really no reason not to list him since we have a good idea of where he stands.

Sure. No reason to delay it anymore, so I'll add Beyond to S.

I want to clarify on Maha first. How do you guys think Maha vs. Netero went? Some people believe Maha is a lot stronger than Prime Netero based off of Zeno's statement, so do you guys think he could be in S+, or is he just Zeno?

Thdyingbreed
03-18-2015, 05:27 PM
I don't think anyone believes he is stronger then Prime Netero I think he was probably a little bit weaker then Netero but still strong enough that he can hold his own against him and he gave him a high difficulty fight so he belongs in S as that would place still him on the same level as Prime Netero.

Killua Zoldyck
03-18-2015, 05:39 PM
I don't think anyone believes he is stronger then Prime Netero I think he was probably a little bit weaker then Netero but still strong enough that he can hold his own against him and he gave him a high difficulty fight so he belongs in S as he was still on the same level as Prime Netero.

There was a thread here discussing if Maha was the strongest human in HxH. Also Zeno said Netero 'survived' against Maha so Netero may be weaker or not even close to Maha. Lots of people were suggesting that there. I'd like to see if anyone thinks Maha is in S+, but low end of course.

I personally think they're equals, but I want to hear other people's arguments first.

Maha for S: Thdyingbreed, King Meruem