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Tokio
03-25-2016, 05:05 PM
http://i.imgur.com/xCyvnvo.png
​"I'm all fired up"


Name: Natsu Dragneel, epithet "Salamander"/"E.N.D."
Origin: Fairy Tail
Gender: Male
Classification: Demon (Etherious)
Age: Unknown, 400+ chronologically
Powers and Abilities: Super strength, speed, durability, endurance, agility, stamina, dexterity, enhanced hearing(could hear talk from soldiers on a distant island from way out at sea), enhanced smell, adept in use of Dragon Slayer Magic, can expel flames from any part of his body, heat of his flames can increase proportionally to his emotional state, immunity to most types of flames, resistance to certain binding techniques (could burn away Sting's stigmata therein freeing his movement), can solidify flames to cling to surfaces, can propel himself considerable heights with his flames, his flames are resistant to flame manipulation l Time stop resistance, curse power, immunity to magic sealing
Weaknesses: Becomes sick from riding on any form of transportation
Destructive Capacity: Destructive Capacity: At least Small City Level (comparable to Gray who was capable of at least this level of freezing potency) l At least City Level+ l Mountain Level+ l likely Island Level l at least Small Island level, likely higher l Island Level l Small Country Level+
Range: Several kilometers
Speed: Hypersonic+ l Massively hypersonic l Massively hypersonic l l Massively hypersonic+, Sub-relativistic reactions l Massively hypersonic l Massively hypersonic+, Sub-relativistic reactions l Massively hypersonic+, Sub-relativistic reactions
Durability: At least Small City Level (stronger than Tartaros demons' who withstood an LFD roar and other attacks) l City Level+ l l likely Mountain Level+ l likely Island Level l at least Small Island level, likely higher l Island Level l Small Country Level+
Lifting Strength: At least Class K+
Striking Strength: ​Class GJ (capable of collapsing large buildings) l Class TJ+ l Class PJ+ l Class PJ+ l Class EJ l Class EJ
Stamina: ​Extremely large, can fight multiple opponents consecutively without break, battled Gray for 3 days before Erza's interference, can replenish stamina by eating fire
Standard Equipment: His scarf
Intelligence: Combat genius (can adapt to a person's fighting style to the point of learning their habitual attack timing, defensive body positioning, as well as even their rhythm of breathing mid battle), can at times display admirable strategic intelligence (according to Makarov the strategy he used against Zancrow was of a commendable level), was able to discern who Tartaros' plug was before anyone else therein also finding their base of operations, extensive battle experience fighting many different kinds of adversaries
Notable Attacks/Techniques:

- Fire Dragon Slayer Magic: Type of Dragon Slayer Magic that grants the user various characteristics typical of a Fire Dragon; lungs capable of spewing flames, scales that grant protection against fire, and nails covered in flames. Consequently, Fire Dragon Slayer magic allows the user to produce and control fire from any part of their body, which can be used both in melee and as a ranged form of offense.



Fire Dragon Iron Fist: Natsu's signature move. Natsu engulfs his fist in flames and punches the target.
Fire Dragon Roar: Natsu releases a large quantity of flames from his mouth.
Fire Dragon Talon: Natsu ignites his feet in flames thereby increasing his kicking power.
Fire Dragon Wing Attack: Natsu sets his hand ablaze to attack any opponent within his immediate vicinity.


- Lightning Fire Dragon Mode: After eating Laxus' lightning and having the flames and lightning inside his body fuse together, Natsu gained the ability to use his Fire Dragon Slayer Magic enhanced with lightning.


Lightning Fire Dragon's Roar: Natsu's alternate, lightning-enhanced version of his Fire Dragon's roar.
Lightning Fire Dragon's Fist: Natsu's alternate version of his Fire Dragon's Iron fist.
Lightning Fire Dragon's Firing Hammer: Natsu engulfs his fist and forearm in fire and lightning and devastatingly strikes his opponent.
Lightning Fire Dragon's Brilliant Flame: Natsu's alternate, more powerful version of his Fire Dragon's Brilliant Flame
Crimson Lotus: Exploding Lightning Blade: Natsu's alternate, lightning-enhanced version of is Crimson Lotus: Exploding Flame Blade.


- Fire Dragon King Spells:


Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist: Natsu first charges his fist, releasing a huge amount of fire in the process. After a brief delay, he punches his target with immense for so strong, in fact, that it shatters even the biggest of his foes to pieces.
Fire Dragon King's Roar: An enhanced and empowered version of his Fire Dragon's Roar, that Natsu used to take down an entire battalion's worth of soldiers of the Alvarez Empire and destroyed a vast space of earth in the process.


- Fire Dragon King Mode: After ten months of training to store and manipulate Igneel's remaining power bequeathed to him, Natsu is capable of using the power of the Fire Dragon King. Was enough power for him to more than rival Zeref.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/2/23/Natsu_in_Fire_Dragon_King_Mode.png/revision/latest?cb=20151202032041

- Transformation Magic: Natsu has mastered the rudimentary skills of Transformation Magic. He was able to successfully transform into Lucy on his second try.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytailcouples/images/9/9a/Natsu-Successfully-Transform-to-Lucy.png/revision/latest?cb=20140625015322

Key: Sun Village Arc/Tartarus Arc l Alvarez Empire Arc l Flame Dragon King Mode l Igneel Inheritance l E.N.D. l Human l Seven Flame

Y
03-25-2016, 05:08 PM
Looks good, but what warrants Island level dura in FDKM?

Tokio
03-25-2016, 05:11 PM
Taking several attacks from Zeref.

Y
03-25-2016, 05:15 PM
Zeref wasn't serious about killing him though, was he?

Tokio
03-25-2016, 05:18 PM
He was. That's the whole weird thing about his 'Curse of Contradictions'. He loves his brother and wants to die by his hands, but his curse makes him act contrary to his wishes and use all his power to kill the brother he wished would kill himself.

Y
03-25-2016, 05:19 PM
Well he just stands there at the end waiting for Natsu to end it, but I guess it's enough to assume he can take attacks on that level while in that state.

RoyalIce
03-25-2016, 05:49 PM
Good Job looks fine.
Even though Rax will probably have a slightly different opinion on this.

Salem
03-25-2016, 06:03 PM
"his flames are resistant to flame manipulation."

Was not his flames controlled by one of the phantom 4? Otherwise this looks good to me.

Tokio
03-25-2016, 06:06 PM
"his flames are resistant to flame manipulation."

Was not his flames controlled by one of the phantom 4? Otherwise this looks good to me.


In the middle of the battle he learned how to make it so that his flames couldn't be controlled

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/fairy-tail/053/fairy-053-16.png

Salem
03-25-2016, 06:21 PM
In the middle of the battle he learned how to make it so that his flames couldn't be controlled

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/fairy-tail/053/fairy-053-16.png
Forgot about that, thanks.

R
03-25-2016, 06:25 PM
>transforms into lucy
>immediately plays with the bewbs
:catcry

Y
03-25-2016, 06:28 PM
wouldn't you too.

R
03-25-2016, 06:30 PM
:khaled

Gay
03-25-2016, 07:18 PM
island level dura is stretching it.
more like mountain.

- - - Updated - - -

well, maybe FDKM natsu might be multi-mountain level, and END unleashed is probably island level.

Fortune
03-25-2016, 07:36 PM
END unleashed will be country level :hhh :lmao

Efege
03-25-2016, 07:55 PM
im sure we can upgrade this in the next 6 month

Y
03-25-2016, 07:56 PM
Why wait.

:rax

Skydragon
03-25-2016, 07:57 PM
looks good and i love the detail gj

Makenzye
03-25-2016, 07:57 PM
END unleashed will be country level :hhh :lmao

Qualify "country"

Because Lichtenstein is 1/3 the size of my native town and that would be a pretty pathetic "country sized" feat.

Y
03-25-2016, 07:59 PM
Qualify "country"

Because Lichtenstein is 1/3 the size of my native town and that would be a pretty pathetic "country sized" feat.

http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?36931-Comprehensive-Destruction-Chart

Damnit Mak. They're just called that to give a rough idea of the output. It's all average sized for the energy requirements.

Efege
03-25-2016, 08:21 PM
Why wait.

:rax
i cant remember rax says natsu is above islandlevel

Y
03-25-2016, 08:22 PM
i cant remember rax says natsu is above islandlevel

I can.

Etherion is country level, Zeref must have considered Etherion as a way to die althought he absolutely has no control over it, FDKM Natsu took attacks from Zeref.

Efege
03-25-2016, 08:30 PM
I can.

Etherion is country level, Zeref must have considered Etherion as a way to die althought he absolutely has no control over it, FDKM Natsu took attacks from Zeref.

by hype/statemant etherion is countrylevel.but i dont see why bring zeref=with etherion.that makes 0 scence
but by the way.thats still better as the one piece wanker

Salem
03-25-2016, 08:38 PM
>transforms into lucy
>immediately plays with the bewbs
:catcry
We all would.

not a stalker
03-25-2016, 08:53 PM
Looking good :hhh

Rax
03-25-2016, 09:30 PM
Etherion with the very lowest way to get an energy yield is 150 Terratons.

With a crater it's far beyond that.

Also

>Natsu only HS+

So Natsu now is as fast as pre-skip Tuarus?:giogio

Salem
03-25-2016, 09:33 PM
We knew it would come.

Rax
03-25-2016, 09:37 PM
Just saiyan.

Saying Natsu is only HS+ is laughable.

Salem
03-25-2016, 09:41 PM
I don't think Taurus is HS+, or even HS, but that's just my opinion. :kermit

Albion
03-25-2016, 09:43 PM
The profile looks good to me.

Y
03-25-2016, 09:44 PM
It's accurate, all there is to say.

Le nettoyeur
03-25-2016, 09:53 PM
Island level is a little far fetched tbh, the rest seems reasonable

Slayer
03-25-2016, 09:56 PM
Hypersonic + :heston

what a snail, and people think this idiot can beat luffy :mj

Profile seems fine though, nothing suggests he's island level.

not a stalker
03-25-2016, 10:38 PM
Hypersonic + :heston

what a snail, and people think this idiot can beat luffy :mj

Profile seems fine though, nothing suggests he's island level.
It comes from damaging Zeref in FDKM.


Etherion with the very lowest way to get an energy yield is 150 Terratons.

With a crater it's far beyond that.

Also

>Natsu only HS+

So Natsu now is as fast as pre-skip Tuarus?:giogio
You know FT hasn't had many speed upgrades since and the only massive upgrade is only scaleable to the dragons.

Rax
03-25-2016, 10:55 PM
Taurus has a feat that puts him at HS + before the OS arc

not a stalker
03-25-2016, 10:56 PM
Taurus has a feat that puts him at HS + before the OS arc
That doesn't make Natsu's speed any higher. It's HS+ until there's an upgrade to MHS

Rax
03-25-2016, 11:05 PM
>Ikaruga
>First DF Natsu
>Mard / CSK
> Warod's trees

Gay
03-25-2016, 11:13 PM
Island level is a little far fetched tbh, the rest seems reasonable
agreed.

- - - Updated - - -


Just saiyan.

Saying Natsu is only HS+ is laughable.
so is saying natsu=island level.

Albion
03-25-2016, 11:17 PM
If people disagree with a stat actually explain why instead of just saying it's wrong.

Rax
03-25-2016, 11:18 PM
He is unless you think FDKM Natsu is weaker than the CSK


Ikaruga was so fast Erza couldn't see her move or attack at all even or after they talked for a few sentences.:lmao

- - - Updated - - -


If people disagree with a stat actually explain why instead of just saying it's wrong.


Etherion with the very lowest way to get an energy yield is 150 Terratons.

With a crater it's far beyond that.

Also

>Natsu only HS+

So Natsu now is as fast as pre-skip Tuarus?:giogio

I did.

not a stalker
03-25-2016, 11:18 PM
>Ikaruga
>First DF Natsu
>Mard / CSK
> Warod's trees
Only the trees are MHS and no one reacted to them, so their speed is not scaleable :facepalm
agreed.

- - - Updated - - -


so is saying natsu=island level.
Not really to be honest. If Island level Acnologia is accepted, then Zeref should scale and FDKM Natsu damaged him :kanyeshrug

Albion
03-25-2016, 11:20 PM
I did.
That wasn't to you, sorry should I have specified that, I meant people saying FDKM Natsu isn't Island Level.

Gay
03-25-2016, 11:20 PM
natsu FDKM should at most be multi-mountain level..
island level is quite retarted, do you really think natsu FDKM can fight mel, escanor, admirals, yonko, or acnologia?

Albion
03-25-2016, 11:21 PM
natsu FDKM should at most be multi-mountain level..
island level is quite retarted, do you really think natsu FDKM can fight mel, escanor, admirals, yonko, or acnologia?
That's not how you prove someone isn't Island Level. Go by what happened in-verse.
Give better reasoning.

not a stalker
03-25-2016, 11:21 PM
natsu FDKM should at most be multi-mountain level..
island level is quite retarted, do you really think natsu FDKM can fight mel, escanor, admirals, yonko, or acnologia?
:lmao
Dude was dominating Zeref. Why not? Then again, he's lacking in the speed department, so probably not

Gay
03-25-2016, 11:22 PM
Only the trees are MHS and no one reacted to them, so their speed is not scaleable :facepalm
Not really to be honest. If Island level Acnologia is accepted, then Zeref should scale and FDKM Natsu damaged him :kanyeshrug
acnologia shouldnt be more than small island level, but whatever.
we have nothing except hype saying zeref is on par with acno, seeing how he made a huge-ass army to fight him.

Le nettoyeur
03-25-2016, 11:24 PM
Isn't acnologia stronger than zeref ? Or I am missing something ?

Rax
03-25-2016, 11:25 PM
Explain Ikaruga being so fast Erza couldn't even see her move or attack even after they talked

Efege
03-25-2016, 11:26 PM
Isn't acnologia stronger than zeref ? Or I am missing something ?

acno can solo his own verse.so yes,he is stronger as zeref

not a stalker
03-25-2016, 11:30 PM
Explain Ikaruga being so fast Erza couldn't even see her move or attack even after they talked
That doesn't put either higher than HS+ :facepalm


acnologia shouldnt be more than small island level, but whatever.
we have nothing except hype saying zeref is on par with acno, seeing how he made a huge-ass army to fight him.
Naw. I think he's accepted as Island level here.

Zeref did say that he was able of giving Acnologia a good fight so he should be in the same ballpark as Acno, which means it scales. He's also been hyped as the second strongest character in the series for a good while :maybe

Le nettoyeur
03-25-2016, 11:40 PM
Through a simple reading grid, it's fair to say that beside Acnologia and probably Brandish, no one has never display island level feat atm

- - - Updated - - -


acno can solo his own verse.so yes,he is stronger as zeref
Thanks for your clarification

Slayer
03-25-2016, 11:48 PM
How does damaging Zeref make him island level? When has Zeref tanked something of that DC with no damage?

Gay
03-25-2016, 11:56 PM
That doesn't put either higher than HS+ :facepalm


Naw. I think he's accepted as Island level here.

Zeref did say that he was able of giving Acnologia a good fight so he should be in the same ballpark as Acno, which means it scales. He's also been hyped as the second strongest character in the series for a good while :maybe
wasnt tenrou a small island :/

- - - Updated - - -


:lmao
Dude was dominating Zeref. Why not? Then again, he's lacking in the speed department, so probably not
zeref isnt island level, his "feats" are iffy.

- - - Updated - - -


That's not how you prove someone isn't Island Level. Go by what happened in-verse.
Give better reasoning.
if acnologia is island level, and zeref is island level, why does zeref, in the same ballpark as acnologia,why did he make a country to fight acnologia if he could just fight him himself?
it doesnt make sense, same with natsu, if natsu got his island level power from igneel, who gave natsu a fraction of his power, why couldnt igneel beat acnologia?

Zoro
03-26-2016, 12:01 AM
http://i.imgur.com/xCyvnvo.png
​"I'm all fired up"


Name: Natsu Dragneel, epithet "Salamander"/"E.N.D."
Origin: Fairy Tail
Gender: Male
Classification: Demon (Etherious)
Age: Unknown, 400+ chronologically
Powers and Abilities: Super strength, speed, durability, endurance, agility, stamina, dexterity, enhanced hearing(could hear talk from soldiers on a distant island from way out at sea), enhanced smell, adept in use of Dragon Slayer Magic, can expel flames from any part of his body, heat of his flames can increase proportionally to his emotional state, immunity to most types of flames, resistance to certain binding techniques (could burn away Sting's stigmata therein freeing his movement), can solidify flames to cling to surfaces, can propel himself considerable heights with his flames, his flames are resistant to flame manipulation,
Weaknesses: Becomes sick from riding on any form of transportation
Destructive Capacity: At least City Level+ in base l Mountain Level+ with Flame Dragon King attacks l likely Island Level in FDK Mode
Range: Several kilometers
Speed: Hypersonic+
Durability: At least Small City Level (stronger than Tartaros demons' who withstood an LFD roar and other attacks) l City Level+ l likely Island Level in FDK Mode
Lifting Strength: At least Class K+
Striking Strength: ​Class GJ (capable of collapsing large buildings) l Class TJ+ l PJ+
Stamina: ​Extremely large, can fight multiple opponents consecutively without break, battled Gray for 3 days before Erza's interference, can replenish stamina by eating fire
Standard Equipment: His scarf
Intelligence: Combat genius (can adapt to a person's fighting style to the point of learning their habitual attack timing, defensive body positioning, as well as even their rhythm of breathing mid battle), can at times display admirable strategic intelligence (according to Makarov the strategy he used against Zancrow was of a commendable level), was able to discern who Tartaros' plug was before anyone else therein also finding their base of operations, extensive battle experience fighting many different kinds of adversaries
Notable Attacks/Techniques:

- Fire Dragon Slayer Magic: Type of Dragon Slayer Magic that grants the user various characteristics typical of a Fire Dragon; lungs capable of spewing flames, scales that grant protection against fire, and nails covered in flames. Consequently, Fire Dragon Slayer magic allows the user to produce and control fire from any part of their body, which can be used both in melee and as a ranged form of offense.



Fire Dragon Iron Fist: Natsu's signature move. Natsu engulfs his fist in flames and punches the target.
Fire Dragon Roar: Natsu releases a large quantity of flames from his mouth.
Fire Dragon Talon: Natsu ignites his feet in flames thereby increasing his kicking power.
Fire Dragon Wing Attack: Natsu sets his hand ablaze to attack any opponent within his immediate vicinity.


- Lightning Fire Dragon Mode: After eating Laxus' lightning and having the flames and lightning inside his body fuse together, Natsu gained the ability to use his Fire Dragon Slayer Magic enhanced with lightning.


Lightning Fire Dragon's Roar: Natsu's alternate, lightning-enhanced version of his Fire Dragon's roar.
Lightning Fire Dragon's Fist: Natsu's alternate version of his Fire Dragon's Iron fist.
Lightning Fire Dragon's Firing Hammer: Natsu engulfs his fist and forearm in fire and lightning and devastatingly strikes his opponent.
Lightning Fire Dragon's Brilliant Flame: Natsu's alternate, more powerful version of his Fire Dragon's Brilliant Flame
Crimson Lotus: Exploding Lightning Blade: Natsu's alternate, lightning-enhanced version of is Crimson Lotus: Exploding Flame Blade.


- Fire Dragon King Spells:


Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist: Natsu first charges his fist, releasing a huge amount of fire in the process. After a brief delay, he punches his target with immense for so strong, in fact, that it shatters even the biggest of his foes to pieces.
Fire Dragon King's Roar: An enhanced and empowered version of his Fire Dragon's Roar, that Natsu used to take down an entire battalion's worth of soldiers of the Alvarez Empire and destroyed a vast space of earth in the process.


- Fire Dragon King Mode: After ten months of training to store and manipulate Igneel's remaining power bequeathed to him, Natsu is capable of using the power of the Fire Dragon King. Was enough power for him to more than rival Zeref.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/2/23/Natsu_in_Fire_Dragon_King_Mode.png/revision/latest?cb=20151202032041

- Transformation Magic: Natsu has mastered the rudimentary skills of Transformation Magic. He was able to successfully transform into Lucy on his second try.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytailcouples/images/9/9a/Natsu-Successfully-Transform-to-Lucy.png/revision/latest?cb=20140625015322

you forgot to mention Natsu is a faggot

Albion
03-26-2016, 12:15 AM
if acnologia is island level, and zeref is island level, why does zeref, in the same ballpark as acnologia,why did he make a country to fight acnologia if he could just fight him himself?
it doesnt make sense, same with natsu, if natsu got his island level power from igneel, who gave natsu a fraction of his power, why couldnt igneel beat acnologia?
Because scaling only gets you to the highest level shown in the series, no matter how much more powerful someone is to another we can't just assign a higher DC/Dura/Speed, without feats/statements to back up said stat.

Gay
03-26-2016, 12:21 AM
Because scaling only gets you to the highest level shown in the series, no matter how much more powerful someone is to another we can't just assign a higher DC/Dura/Speed, without feats/statements to back up said stat.
its still quite confusing.

Slayer
03-26-2016, 12:51 AM
Because scaling only gets you to the highest level shown in the series, no matter how much more powerful someone is to another we can't just assign a higher DC/Dura/Speed, without feats/statements to back up said stat.

What feats show that Zeref has island level dura? I still don't see how Natsu gets Island level DC if he hasn't shown anything that suggests it.

Gay
03-26-2016, 01:32 AM
What feats show that Zeref has island level dura? I still don't see how Natsu gets Island level DC if he hasn't shown anything that suggests it.
agreed.

Rax
03-26-2016, 02:19 AM
you forgot to mention Natsu is a faggot

Natsu actually has an interest in girls.


Luffy does not.

- - - Updated - - -

Zeref's durability is logically scaled to Etherion.


If it was capable of killing him he would've just used it.

- - - Updated - - -


That doesn't put either higher than HS+ :facepalm


Naw. I think he's accepted as Island level here.

Zeref did say that he was able of giving Acnologia a good fight so he should be in the same ballpark as Acno, which means it scales. He's also been hyped as the second strongest character in the series for a good while :maybe

Yea it does


She literally moves far beyond the speed of someone who was HS+ at the time could even fathom AFTER the event

Tokio
03-26-2016, 02:51 AM
guess this is the part where i make the poll thread?

Fist of Destruction
03-26-2016, 02:56 AM
Yup no island level Mountain level + is good .

Tokio
03-26-2016, 03:00 AM
Should easily get the scaling from Brandish's feat

W
03-26-2016, 03:14 AM
Should easily get the scaling from Brandish's feat
Scaling to Brandish is a no no.

Tokio
03-26-2016, 03:18 AM
Scaling to Brandish is a no no.

It's generally accepted when in reference to people much stronger than her.

For instance, it was accepted with Acno on this forum even.

W
03-26-2016, 03:22 AM
It's generally accepted when in reference to people much stronger than her.

For instance, it was accepted with Acno on this forum even.
It was on TMF?

Tokio
03-26-2016, 03:23 AM
It was on TMF?

yeah

http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?33540-UBD-Profile-Acnologia

W
03-26-2016, 03:35 AM
yeah

http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?33540-UBD-Profile-Acnologia
Didn't see anything about scaling to Brandsh, it was just mostly Tenrou shenanigans but I'll take your word for it.

Reality
03-26-2016, 04:52 AM
W is blind, it's the third comment and is even quoting you.

"Blowing up Tenrou, scaling from Brandish' potential energy and beeing superior to Etherion."

W
03-26-2016, 04:55 AM
You realize that was before people accepted not to scale to Brandish right?

Rax
03-26-2016, 05:07 AM
You realize how they even got BRandish at island level, yes?

Gay
03-26-2016, 06:40 AM
You realize how they even got BRandish at island level, yes?
nice ass you fucker.



:noworries

Tokio
06-10-2016, 04:50 AM
Are we accepting Natsu's lake feat now?

Slayer
06-10-2016, 05:05 AM
No.

Numinous One
06-10-2016, 05:14 AM
Are we accepting Natsu's lake feat now?

What, like... A rax calc or something more reasonable?

Tokio
06-10-2016, 05:17 AM
What, like... A rax calc or something more reasonable?

Something more reasonable.

I remember last we discussed we weren't going to use the feat at all because the visual didn't confirm whether or not the lake had been vaped in it's entirety.

But recently the feat and calcs for it have been referenced a lot in debates so I figured we should clear up wether or not it's to be used at all at this point and if so what value we're going to give to it.

Numinous One
06-10-2016, 05:21 AM
Something more reasonable.

I remember last we discussed we weren't going to use the feat at all because the visual didn't confirm whether or not the lake had been vaped in it's entirety.

But recently the feat and calcs for it have been referenced a lot in debates so I figured we should clear up wether or not it's to be used at all at this point and if so what value we're going to give to it.

Eh, I'm of two minds.
I mean we can clearly see it drop several meters at least, and a later chapter shows it's receded a fair bit.
Couple with a statement of vaporising the lake you could make an argument.

But it wouldn't hurt to get another view point of it later either.

McCree
06-10-2016, 04:11 PM
Eh, I'm of two minds.
I mean we can clearly see it drop several meters at least, and a later chapter shows it's receded a fair bit.
Couple with a statement of vaporising the lake you could make an argument.

But it wouldn't hurt to get another view point of it later either.

Vs Battles did the calc and it was Large City Level, so it wouldn't change much.

Efege
06-10-2016, 04:35 PM
Vs Battles did the calc and it was Large City Level, so it wouldn't change much.

vs battles calced it to mountainlevel
check the page again please

Makenzye
06-10-2016, 04:38 PM
Came in, saw the two most recent posts mentioned VSBattles directly, decided to drink my problems away.

SonDeathEater
06-10-2016, 07:20 PM
Most calcs by Vs battle wiki arent accepted.
Where do Natsu's base stats come from to get City+?


I assume FDK attacks/mode scale to the fraction of Igneel's power/Zeref.

not a stalker
06-10-2016, 07:53 PM
Most calcs by Vs battle wiki arent accepted.
Where do Natsu's base stats come from to get City+?


I assume FDK attacks/mode scale to the fraction of Igneel's power/Zeref.
Natsu's base stats come from him being stronger than his Tartaros DF-self, who was above Etherious Mard, who in base form casually clashed with someone who performed a 50MT feat, the CSK, which puts base Natsu easily at City+ level

Yeah, enhanced with Igneel's MP.

- - - Updated - - -


Came in, saw the two most recent posts mentioned VSBattles directly, decided to drink my problems away.
:heston

Y
06-10-2016, 10:37 PM
Mak, you made me spit coffee on my keyboard.

That's not nice.

Numinous One
06-10-2016, 11:12 PM
Vs Battles did the calc and it was Large City Level, so it wouldn't change much.

I literally went over this with you yesterday.
Christ.

Dellinger
06-10-2016, 11:54 PM
Why are you guys keep talking about Mard's feats?He never outright clashed with a high end attack of the CSK,all he did was avoiding them.There's a difference between avoiding attacks and straight up countering them.Mard never did the second.

Tokio
06-11-2016, 02:14 AM
The feat doesn't come from a high end feat of the CSK, and he did counter an attack or two of his, while holding back at that.

Dellinger
06-11-2016, 03:19 AM
That's like saying Luffy countered island level attacks from Fujitora.While holding back too.

And it is a high end feat since it is his best feat.My point still stands.

Tokio
06-11-2016, 03:27 AM
Eh, it's not, though.
When Luffy wasn't attacking he was getting knocked back.
He never countered one of Fuji's attacks.

It's his strongest and only feat, that was done casually.

Dellinger
06-11-2016, 03:29 AM
Eh, it's not, though.
When Luffy wasn't attacking he was getting knocked back.
He never countered one of Fuji's attacks.

It's his strongest and only feat, that was done casually.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/799/page/4

Luffy here clearly blocks an attack.

Done casually or not doesn't matter.His other swings weren't that strong.

Tokio
06-11-2016, 03:47 AM
You know the feat is from his destroying the cube, not the meteor blade?

Dellinger
06-11-2016, 03:49 AM
You know the feat is from his destroying the cube, not the meteor blade?

I know and it is far above anything he showed later.You could make a case if Mard countered meteo blade but he avoided his attack just like most of them.

Tokio
06-11-2016, 03:54 AM
The feat wasn't performed through a special technique, it was through his regular raw physical strength. There's no real reason to assume it was of a higher calibre than his other regular attacks.

McCree
06-11-2016, 04:54 AM
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/799/page/4

Luffy here clearly blocks an attack.

Done casually or not doesn't matter.His other swings weren't that strong.

I want to know why Luffy got downgraded to City Level when Base Luffy can at least block a few of Fujitora's strikes. He Mid Diffed Old Chinjao without G4, and performed a feat that a WB Commander couldn't do (breaking out of Parasite). I'm not trying to complain but that seems pretty ridiculous to me. And despite the fact that nearly every fucking normal marine and their mother has armament haki, people are trying to argue that the attack that Fujitora used (Fierce Tiger) wasn't imbued with haki (which would negate Luffy's blunt force resistance)... if he couldn't imbue it with haki, how could his gravity harm Logia users? Get also wrecked Doflamingo (until Awakening), whereas Doffy has quite a few feats that are often overlooked. People forget that he was able to toy with Jozu (who himself could cause trouble for admirals) and he unfroze himself after Kuzan flash froze him at PH. Neither are quantifiable, but they are examples of portrayal, and the portrayal seems to say he is at least on Jozu's level, and closer to Admiral level than people think. His Birdcage was also strong enough to withstand the 100+ Gigatons of KE from Fujitora's Meteor. Fujitora also couldn't stop the advancing Birdcage (along with quite a few City Level characters). He also shit stomped people who are City Level themselves like Sanji and Smoker. G4 Luffy was curbing Doffy until Awakening began. KKG gets thrown out because it hides an outlier, and if people calced it like it logically should be, it would probably yield results bigger than Prime Chinjao's feat of 84 Gigatons. I just don't get it.

Gay
06-11-2016, 06:05 AM
I want to know why Luffy got downgraded to City Level when Base Luffy can at least block a few of Fujitora's strikes. He Mid Diffed Old Chinjao without G4, and performed a feat that a WB Commander couldn't do (breaking out of Parasite). I'm not trying to complain but that seems pretty ridiculous to me. And despite the fact that nearly every fucking normal marine and their mother has armament haki, people are trying to argue that the attack that Fujitora used (Fierce Tiger) wasn't imbued with haki (which would negate Luffy's blunt force resistance)... if he couldn't imbue it with haki, how could his gravity harm Logia users? Get also wrecked Doflamingo (until Awakening), whereas Doffy has quite a few feats that are often overlooked. People forget that he was able to toy with Jozu (who himself could cause trouble for admirals) and he unfroze himself after Kuzan flash froze him at PH. Neither are quantifiable, but they are examples of portrayal, and the portrayal seems to say he is at least on Jozu's level, and closer to Admiral level than people think. His Birdcage was also strong enough to withstand the 100+ Gigatons of KE from Fujitora's Meteor. Fujitora also couldn't stop the advancing Birdcage (along with quite a few City Level characters). He also shit stomped people who are City Level themselves like Sanji and Smoker. G4 Luffy was curbing Doffy until Awakening began. KKG gets thrown out because it hides an outlier, and if people calced it like it logically should be, it would probably yield results bigger than Prime Chinjao's feat of 84 Gigatons. I just don't get it.
http://i.imgur.com/8zRs5B3.png (http://orojackson.com/threads/favorite-anime-quotes-max-two-posts-per-day.10524/page-29)

COV
08-19-2016, 02:06 PM
I think Power of Feelings should be one here since it is an actual power source for magic.

Rax
01-03-2017, 04:52 AM
Should be MHS+ seeing as Wendy and Erza were blocking and dodging shit from Eileen

McCree
01-03-2017, 06:50 AM
Eileen isn't MHS+, only Acno and Igneel are.

Rax
01-03-2017, 06:54 AM
Um, no.

The feat is from half dead dragons who were fodder to Acno.

Meanwhile Eileen was the first dragon slayer and the former Queen of Dragons :lmao

R
01-03-2017, 08:44 AM
There has been no snow clouds

only snow

Rax
01-03-2017, 08:47 AM
It was snowing dough.

R
01-03-2017, 08:56 AM
we. have. been. over. this. multiple. times.

snow. without. clouds. is. a. common. phenomen.

Rax
01-03-2017, 08:59 AM
Snowing with lots of still ongoing snow is without any clouds for hundreds of miles conveniently?

R
01-03-2017, 09:11 AM
-

edit; omg you even gave in twice already and called it reality warping...why bring it up yet again ffs...

abystander
01-03-2017, 09:11 AM
just ignore him lol he already gave up on the feat and labelled it "Reality warping"
the snow stuff was already taken care of in the other thread he made

Rax
01-03-2017, 09:13 AM
>My entire point of bumping was because he should scale to dragons speed now

:psyduck

R
01-03-2017, 09:13 AM
but why bringing up the snow part then

Rax
01-03-2017, 09:14 AM
I dunno


I forgot.

R
01-03-2017, 09:17 AM
:lmao okay fam

Rax
01-03-2017, 09:19 AM
I was busy being taken away by my pretty sig :rax

abystander
01-03-2017, 09:19 AM
it's massive...

Rax
01-03-2017, 09:21 AM
8 Glorious Dragons dough :hhh

abystander
01-03-2017, 09:23 AM
u and ur dragon fetish :whew

Rax
01-03-2017, 08:53 PM
Update Natsu's speed

Tokio
01-03-2017, 09:07 PM
would love to, but no can do. too much contention. can't definitively say he or eileen are that fast yet.

Rax
01-03-2017, 09:11 PM
Eileen is the former queen of dragons and the first dragon slayer


There's no feasible way she's slower than half dead non-royal dragons

Murim-in
01-03-2017, 09:15 PM
Well she's not a dragon anymore, why is it impossible?

Rax
01-03-2017, 09:18 PM
Her body still has all dragon aspects. It was just physically altered and nothing more as Zeref stated. It fully backs up with the fact she messed with Acno and didn't get blitzed

abystander
01-03-2017, 09:44 PM
or u know acno wasn't being serious, unlike against august who got blitzed, the same dude who is supposed to be on par with eileen.
Eileen also gets blitzed by wendy..

Rax
01-03-2017, 10:01 PM
August was scared, Eileen is crazy and was not.

Thinking that half dead Dragons are above the dragon queen is silly.

Wendy is also a dragon slayer who's the only character who can willingly go in and out of true Dragon Force

abystander
01-03-2017, 10:05 PM
august literally saw acno in front of him, and then says "acnologia", he then proceeds to get blitzed immediately along with the others there, if he was scared then he would be on alert even more.

not when feats like wendy blitzing her are given and the above.

Rax
01-03-2017, 10:13 PM
And he was worried the entire.

Eileen was not.


It's funny how you use Wendy as a scape goat.

She's proven to be consistently strong

abystander
01-03-2017, 10:18 PM
august is on par with eileen as said in cannon, august got blitzed by an anco who was trying whilst eileen didn't against an acno who was playing around, so eileen is not getting scaled from acno for speed.

So acno couldn't blitz eileen, but wendy could => wendy>Acno?

Rax
01-03-2017, 10:20 PM
August was worried and knew Acno was vastly above them


Eileen just wanted to mess with him


Wendy didn't blitz her. You have no idea what a blitz is if you think so.

Tokio
01-03-2017, 10:21 PM
the feat isn't acno's, the scaling wouldn't actually come from him.

and all wendy did was exploit an opportunity erza created by distracting eileen. she didn't blitz anyone.

Reality
01-04-2017, 01:15 AM
August wasn't even in his combat mode.

Rax
01-04-2017, 01:29 AM
I don't see how August is affecting anything here.

Rax
01-24-2017, 03:16 AM
Natsu muh boy! :hhh

McCree
01-24-2017, 07:14 PM
Denote it as Sub Relatativsitc reactions

Rax
01-24-2017, 08:01 PM
He moved and countered a spell from Red August.

So he gets all speed areas

W
01-24-2017, 10:16 PM
You mean the move everyone in the area saw coming?

Tokio
01-24-2017, 11:20 PM
the sub relativistic speed was awarded to the version of natsu with igneel's power. the same version of him that blitzed zeref.

Rax
01-25-2017, 02:14 AM
He couldn't have been able to counter August's spell if he wasn't as fast

Reality
01-25-2017, 02:45 AM
Reacting to August would only apply to Natsu's reaction.

Rax
01-25-2017, 02:50 AM
Attack and movement speed too.

He managed to shield Lucy and use his magic.

Fist of Destruction
01-27-2017, 04:34 PM
I though Ft Top Tiers are Sub rel in reaction only not in Movement /Combat . I seriously doubt they can move sub rel

Y
01-28-2017, 04:22 PM
I though Ft Top Tiers are Sub rel in reaction only not in Movement /Combat . I seriously doubt they can move sub rel

They have Mach 12.6 Reaction and Attack speed.

Movement is sitting as 1200.

Rax
01-28-2017, 04:32 PM
Movement had Erza matching up with it :cat

Y
01-28-2017, 04:42 PM
which came out at like 700

Rax
01-28-2017, 04:43 PM
>Using the speed of something calced to get the speed of another thing calc'd

:ultra

Y
01-28-2017, 04:45 PM
>calc stacking for matching up to an attack

:geg

well I mean you can just not use the value as M1200 is higher regardless.

lol.

Rax
01-28-2017, 04:49 PM
Natsu reacted to and moved in terms with Red Augusts spell

Y
01-28-2017, 04:52 PM
I'll point at the clusterfuck that triggered in the NF thread linked in the OP and say no thanks :mak

I mean okay whatever, that's not movement speed in any way regardless.

Rax
01-28-2017, 05:53 PM
He moved in relations it just fine :maybe

Y
01-28-2017, 05:59 PM
uh sure because he was uplifted by the attack.

Rax
01-28-2017, 07:46 PM
He was able to protect Lucy AND Happy

Happy who wasn't even within reach of him

Y
01-28-2017, 08:01 PM
That doesn't say shit about movement speed still.

Like, what the hell?

Rax
01-28-2017, 08:05 PM
He was able to move before the spell even hit him

Y
01-28-2017, 08:30 PM
we call that reaction speed, not movement speed.

are you seriously telling me this shot right over your head, this entire time? You've only put out arguments for reaction speed beeing applicable, which was obvious and accepted from the start.

jesus.

Anyway, editing the OP to say MHS+ with Sub Relativistic reactions, like all feats of this nature do. @Hendrix (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=8368);

Rax
01-28-2017, 08:40 PM
He was still able to move and do his shit before August's attack went fully off

http://h.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/38-489.0/compressed/l004.jpg?token=3e58cb631fc947658cd37ccc3761750b&ttl=1485712800

Shouldn't that make his movement speed up with his other speeds?

Y
01-28-2017, 08:40 PM
That's not moving from Point A to B at Mach 12600.

No.

Besides there was clearly a delay from when Natsu sensed it and the attack went of.

Rax
01-28-2017, 09:05 PM
Doesn't look like it.

Lucy is looking down at what is likely the attack

Y
01-28-2017, 09:07 PM
Well yeah. They see the light before the attack emerges. That's a delay.

Dellinger
01-28-2017, 09:16 PM
Are you guys really trying to scale the speed of the meteor to other attacks? :giogio

Y
01-28-2017, 09:17 PM
The speed of the meteor is going to apply for the attack speed of god tiers and their respective reaction speed.

sure.

Rax
01-28-2017, 09:23 PM
Delly is saltier than the entirety of East Blue

Tokio
01-28-2017, 09:27 PM
Anyway, editing the OP to say MHS+ with Sub Relativistic reactions, like all feats of this nature do. @Hendrix (http://www.millenniumforums.com/member.php?u=8368);


the sub relativistic speed was awarded to the version of natsu with igneel's power. the same version of him that blitzed zeref.

got the others, but being able to blitz someone on zeref's level should be able to warrant the all around speed for characters on level with igneel, acno, or the version of natsu with part of igneel's power

Dellinger
01-28-2017, 09:29 PM
The speed of the meteor is going to apply for the attack speed of god tiers and their respective reaction speed.

sure.

We're not talking about Irene's speed here.We are talking about the meteor's speed.That's like saying WB and Roger are light speed because they are God tiers and hence above Kizaru.

Y
01-28-2017, 09:31 PM
got the others, but being able to blitz someone on zeref's level should be able to warrant the all around speed for characters on level with igneel, acno, or the version of natsu with part of igneel's power

It's pretty questionable how serious Zeref was. Also afaik he was keeping up with Natsu just fine after initially beeing surprised.



We're not talking about Irene's speed here.We are talking about the meteor's speed.That's like saying WB and Roger are light speed because they are God tiers and hence above Kizaru.

?

Are you saying the god tiers can't react to the meteor? Because uh. Yah. That is... honestly pretty funny considering what Erza pulled and that Irenes magic had to accelerate it since it was way out of the ballpark of usual meteors.

None of Kizarus attacks are actually lightspeed, when someone reacts to one that proveably is sure. The YnK thing has been done pretty thoroughly.

Rax
01-28-2017, 09:32 PM
We're not talking about Irene's speed here.We are talking about the meteor's speed.That's like saying WB and Roger are light speed because they are God tiers and hence above Kizaru.

The difference is Kizaru's LS attribute is the top thing about his DF.

If all these people were even equal or above that then his DF would be completely garbage in comparison to the others.

Dellinger
01-28-2017, 09:35 PM
It's pretty questionable how serious Zeref was. Also afaik he was keeping up with Natsu just fine after initially beeing surprised.




?

Are you saying the god tiers can't react to the meteor? Because uh. Yah. That.

None of Kizarus attacks are actually lightspeed, when someone reacts to one that proveably is sure. The YnK thing has been done pretty thoroughly.

YNK is light speed.There no proof that it isn't as it operates like actual light.And don't bring me the crap about his laser exploding because his light certainly doesn't explode when he uses the mirror.

Also are you saying that no one can't react to Kizaru? Uh.Yah.That

Y
01-28-2017, 09:37 PM
YNK is light speed.There no proof that it isn't as it operates like actual light.And don't bring me the crap about his laser exploding because his light certainly doesn't explode when he uses the mirror.

Also are you saying that no one can't react to Kizaru? Uh.Yah.That

I'm saying no one is going to react to Yata no Kagami while it's entirely deployed. I mean the speed is accepted for the god tiers etc on NF as well. I honestly don't see the problem here.

Luffy dodged the PX lasers which *are* Kizarus. It's been chalked up to hyperbole by the consensus really.

Dellinger
01-28-2017, 09:40 PM
I'm saying no one is going to react to Yata no Kagami while it's entirely deployed. I mean the speed is accepted for the god tiers etc on NF as well. I honestly don't see the problem here.

Luffy dodged the PX lasers which *are* Kizarus. It's been chalked up to hyperbole by the consensus really.

YNK=/=those lasers beams.Entire different techs.

Also fuck it,Rayleigh clearly reacted to Kizaru moving through the YNK.I have posted why and how he did that.

Also really Y?It's not even light speed when it operates like actual light?This is the first time I'm hearing this.

Tokio
01-28-2017, 09:42 PM
edited it to mhs+ and sub rel reactions

and the rest considering the mach 700 from erza matching the meteor

everything looking good now?

Y
01-28-2017, 09:49 PM
edited it to mhs+ and sub rel reactions

and the rest considering the mach 700 from erza matching the meteor

everything looking good now?

as far as I'm concerned yah.


YNK=/=those lasers beams.Entire different techs.

Also fuck it,Rayleigh clearly reacted to Kizaru moving through the YNK.I have posted why and how he did that.

Also really Y?It's not even light speed when it operates like actual light?This is the first time I'm hearing this.

That's what I was getting at with that comparison, yeah. The thing about YnK I already addressed - I never claimed the technique isn't lightspeed. The others aren't. There's also the fact that it was considered an outlier among a load of other things.

Operates like actual light? I never stated YnK wasn't lightspeed but if you really do want to go there.
Light really doesn't explode. Apoo reacted to something when Kizaru caught up to him with YnK. 'It's bright.' to be precise.http://i.imgur.com/CW4sJZM.jpg

Meaning that Kizarus traveltime is delayed and not lightspeed as the guy perceived something bright - light - before he got kicked into the building.

Dellinger
01-28-2017, 10:04 PM
as far as I'm concerned yah.



That's what I was getting at with that comparison, yeah. The thing about YnK I already addressed - I never claimed the technique isn't lightspeed. The others aren't. There's also the fact that it was considered an outlier among a load of other things.

Operates like actual light? I never stated YnK wasn't lightspeed but if you really do want to go there.
Light really doesn't explode. Apoo reacted to something when Kizaru caught up to him with YnK. 'It's bright.' to be precise.http://i.imgur.com/CW4sJZM.jpg

Meaning that Kizarus traveltime is delayed and not lightspeed as the guy perceived something bright - light - before he got kicked into the building.
I think you confused yourself here.Kizaru activates the tech,the light reaches Apoo.He get's blinded.That's only natural because it's light is directly at his face.The thing is that Apoo doesn't react at all to Kizaru moving through it and he only sees Kizaru when he is right above him.Not to mention that the Yata path has already traveled with Apoo still being mid air without moving an inch.

Anyway this is not the thread for it.

Y
01-28-2017, 10:06 PM
Not really, naw. Apoo got blinded by light originating from YnK - hence Kizaru didn't move at lightspeed along with it since if he did there'd be no timeframe to get blinded by light.

but yah, it isnt.

Rax
06-29-2017, 05:19 AM
:rax

Rax
07-08-2017, 04:40 PM
Tanked attacks from Acnologia :lbj

Juan
07-08-2017, 05:09 PM
From a playing around Acno, yeah.

Mercantilist
07-08-2017, 05:25 PM
We're not talking about Irene's speed here.We are talking about the meteor's speed.That's like saying WB and Roger are light speed because they are God tiers and hence above Kizaru.

Very strange equivocation going on here

From some browsing the gist of it seems to be that top tiers scale to Irene's meteor because if Erza can react to it other characters who from scaling, and actual blitzing against characters of Erza's class (not just 'because they are God tiers'), are as fast if not faster, so...

meanwhile, top tiers in OP scale to Kizaru's light speed techniques because if ...... react to it other- hmm, for some reason that's
blank.

There we go. No equivocation it's settled.

Rax
07-08-2017, 05:39 PM
He was pretty mad this recent chapter

Rax
07-27-2017, 11:57 PM
Time for an upgrade :hhh

Meng Hao
07-27-2017, 11:59 PM
I can't wait for Continental Luffy
:excited

Rax
07-28-2017, 12:00 AM
Discredited since he got rekt by Big Mom :lbj

Bloodbath
07-28-2017, 12:04 AM
Wow! Nice! Luffy was continental during the Pre-TS so now he should be...multi-continental! :roland

And Big Mom should be planet level :obama

Not reached the Naruto/SDS level but that's still far more impressive than a certain Nakama plot manga without much HUMILITY. :rax

Rax
07-28-2017, 01:16 AM
To get my Continental Natsu :smug

Escanor
07-28-2017, 01:23 AM
Discredited since he got rekt by Big Mom :lbj

It means big mom is also continent level

Rax
07-28-2017, 01:23 AM
No it doesn't.

She clearly can't scale to WB

Tokio
10-07-2017, 05:33 PM
natsu's lake feat open for reconsideration? :maybe


Destructive Capacity: At least Small City Level (comparable to Gray who was capable of at least this level of freezing potency) l At least City Level+ l Mountain Level+ l likely Island Level l at least Small Island level, likely higher l Island Level l Country Level+(?)

Key: Sun Village Arc/Tartarus Arc l Alvarez Empire Arc l Flame Dragon King Mode l Igneel Inheritance l E.N.D. l Human l Seven Flame

if so
how's this looking for natsu's stats?

Rax
10-07-2017, 05:38 PM
The Etherion scaling is small continent level

1.2 Petatons

And The Eternal Flare calc is still open. LazyWaka on NF was okay with planetary curvature scaling with it

Sir Torch
10-07-2017, 05:46 PM
natsu's lake feat open for reconsideration? :maybe



if so
how's this looking for natsu's stats?
Is "Human" the WF Natsu? :huh
Also, shouldn't Seven Flames Natsu be lower than Acno? Since Acno should be somewhere at small continent in his dragon form, and his human form < dragon form. Even if not by much, his human form is probably somewhere in the "country" range.
But Natsu with his 7FD mode barely managed to defeat Acno and did it only due to Acno being severly weakened because of the Fairy Sphere.

Finalbeta
10-07-2017, 05:54 PM
Raxsu

Jörmungandr
10-07-2017, 06:00 PM
natsu's lake feat open for reconsideration? :maybe



if so
how's this looking for natsu's stats?

''at least Country level'' for Seven Flames Natsu should be alright. There is that problem with Acnologia separating his soul from his body, so I think a country level wouldn't cause any problems. Obviously, that applies only to his DC.

COV
10-07-2017, 06:04 PM
Not really, he has considerable Dura as well since his level of power is tied to his defense too

Tokio
10-07-2017, 06:06 PM
Is "Human" the WF Natsu? :huh

suppose so. named it "human" instead because that's what he insisted he was after his boost from his identity crisis, and didn't really see wf as a "mode" or a "version" of natsu


Also, shouldn't Seven Flames Natsu be lower than Acno? Since Acno should be somewhere at small continent in his dragon form, and his human form < dragon form. Even if not by much, his human form is probably somewhere in the "country" range.
But Natsu with his 7FD mode barely managed to defeat Acno and did it only due to Acno being severly weakened because of the Fairy Sphere.

don't really think 'fairy sphere' "weakened" acno. wasn't really that kind of technique. but even if it did weaken him somewhat, figured the amount of power natsu would've needed to overcome acno's resistance would've made up for any influence 'fairy sphere' potentially had.

Sir Torch
10-07-2017, 06:06 PM
It did stop his movements though.

Rax
10-07-2017, 06:08 PM
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/eternal-flare-planetary-scaling-attempt.36716/

Jörmungandr
10-07-2017, 06:13 PM
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/eternal-flare-planetary-scaling-attempt.36716/

''You cannot see the blog because your usergroup permissions do not have the "Can View" permission for blogs, and you are blocked from seeing any blog.''

Rax
10-07-2017, 06:24 PM
''You cannot see the blog because your usergroup permissions do not have the "Can View" permission for blogs, and you are blocked from seeing any blog.''

LazyWaka (https://www.narutoforums.org/members/lazywaka.158691/)Wednesday at 8:19 PM
In order to use curvature scaling like this anyway the thing you are trying to scale has to be at or further back than the horizon. The blasts you scaled are in the foreground of it.


His only issue was I was scaling on of the explosions wrong, which I later corrected

https://i.imgur.com/8dsijC3.png

Meng Hao
10-07-2017, 06:25 PM
''You cannot see the blog because your usergroup permissions do not have the "Can View" permission for blogs, and you are blocked from seeing any blog.''

You need an account on Naruto Forums.

It's Rax's calc.

Eternal Flare (Planetary Scaling Attempt)Published by Rax (https://www.narutoforums.org/members/rax.223157/) in the blog Rax's blog (https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blogs/rax.223157/). Views: 94


https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m42qtuDuo21r58lid.gif


Might as well try planetary curve since it's high enough to view from space and has the curve, which are the two requirements for planetary curvature scaling

Spoiler:
https://i.imgur.com/p3vyIVr.png





232/5777*49480600 = 1987104m Wide Crater = 2054140000000000000 m^3
127/5777*49480600 = 1087768m Wide Crater = 336959500000000000m^3



Total Volume = 2391099500000000000m^3


Vaporization due to him showing to incinerate mountains with EF


2391099500000000000*1000*2600 *27050 = 40.2 Exatons


https://www.narutoforums.org/styles/nf/icons/o7LIoIS.gif

Rax
10-07-2017, 06:28 PM
I actually have to update it with one more explosion

Tokio
10-07-2017, 07:07 PM
It did stop his movements though.

yeah, did allow for an opening. but wouldn't exactly say it weakened him, tho.

Rax
10-07-2017, 07:08 PM
Teo, respond

Sir Torch
10-07-2017, 07:09 PM
yeah, did allow for an opening. but wouldn't exactly say it weakened him, tho.
Well, I guess so. It just seems to be implied that Acnologia was still superior to Natsu, and the only reason Natsu won was because of the opening provided by Fairy Sphere.

Juan
10-07-2017, 07:37 PM
yeah, did allow for an opening. but wouldn't exactly say it weakened him, tho.

Didn't it cause Acno sickness motion? That tends to floor Dragon Slayers.

Rax
10-07-2017, 07:39 PM
There were a ton of variables that let Natsu beat Acnologia

Tokio
10-07-2017, 07:42 PM
Didn't it cause Acno sickness motion? That tends to floor Dragon Slayers.

the boat did, yeah. motion sickness makes them severely nauseous leaving them unable to really use their power(which spirit acno wasn't all that bothered by) but it doesn't actual drain them of their magic or strength; which was why i was thinking it wouldn't take away much, if any, from natsu's feat of bypassing his resistance

Rax
10-07-2017, 07:43 PM
Teo

Tokio
10-07-2017, 07:50 PM
i can't see nf blogs even with my account for some reason
so can't see your calc to really say anything about it

Rax
10-07-2017, 07:59 PM
http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?55617-Eternal-Flare

Sir Torch
10-19-2017, 10:10 AM
So... is Teo's suggestion going to be accepted?

Tokio
10-28-2017, 09:12 PM
updated the op with the earlier suggested stats

if you've an issue with them lmk what you disagree with and why

Aether
10-28-2017, 09:23 PM
is it because of the SDS flame or fairy heart?

Efege
10-28-2017, 09:25 PM
is it because of the SDS flame or fairy heart?

7F Natsu

Rax
10-28-2017, 09:26 PM
It's small continent level, not country level.

AoE blast size for Etherion gives 1.2 Petatons at a minimum

- - - Updated - - -


7F Natsu

Should be both tbh

Aether
10-28-2017, 09:28 PM
but isn't that a one time mode?

Efege
10-28-2017, 09:29 PM
It's small continent level, not country level.

AoE blast size for Etherion gives 1.2 Petatons at a minimum

- - - Updated - - -



Should be both tbh

I agree.

Numinous One
10-28-2017, 10:40 PM
the boat did, yeah. motion sickness makes them severely nauseous leaving them unable to really use their power(which spirit acno wasn't all that bothered by) but it doesn't actual drain them of their magic or strength; which was why i was thinking it wouldn't take away much, if any, from natsu's feat of bypassing his resistance

https://i.imgur.com/74FAQRC_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

What was that? :maybe

Rax
10-28-2017, 10:41 PM
Thought the effects of motion sickness and the DSs was a commonly known thing by now

Dellinger
10-29-2017, 11:38 AM
country level ?

Tokio
10-29-2017, 11:42 AM
etherion scaling

Rax
10-29-2017, 12:15 PM
As I said the yield for Etherion is 1.2 Petatons

Albion
10-29-2017, 03:18 PM
Where is Island Level coming from? Irene? :catthink

I don't think anyone has gotten an answer regarding that.

Jörmungandr
10-29-2017, 03:21 PM
Where is Island Level coming from? Irene? :catthink

I don't think anyone has gotten an answer regarding that.

From beating Zeref, no?

Tokio
10-29-2017, 03:22 PM
being able to take several hits from acnologia should more than justify it when he was able to crack 'fairy sphere'(that was stronger than the one he couldn't damage at tenrou even with his roar) with a body slam while suffering from motion sickness

- - - Updated - - -

on top of things like keeping up with and defeating zeref

Albion
10-29-2017, 03:40 PM
Wasn't Acno playing around with them and he needed them alive didn't he?
I remember Acno doing one serious attack when he was a bit angry though, but not sure if that was due to Wendy or not, I will probably need to reread the fight a bit.

Well Numinous just posted that Motion Sickness does drain strength so can't say much about that.

What makes Zeref Island Level then?

Rax
10-29-2017, 03:49 PM
Wasn't Acno playing around with them and he needed them alive didn't he?
I remember Acno doing one serious attack when he was a bit angry though, but not sure if that was due to Wendy or not, I will probably need to reread the fight a bit.

Well Numinous just posted that Motion Sickness does drain strength so can't say much about that.

What makes Zeref Island Level then?

Acno's casual attacks Even without magic one shot God Serena.


GS is still a dragon slayer so he by logic should be really durable.

Tokio
10-29-2017, 04:18 PM
almost forgot to respond to numinous


https://i.imgur.com/74FAQRC_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

What was that? :maybe

doesn't go against my point :maybe

was referring to a drain in the literal sense

it of course makes them weaker, but that's more because, like the scan read, it doesn't allow them to summon or "work up" their power

it doesn't actually strip, deprive, or "drain" them of their magic supply

point was made to explain why it wouldn't have really and didn't bother spiritual acno


Wasn't Acno playing around with them and he needed them alive didn't he?
I remember Acno doing one serious attack when he was a bit angry though, but not sure if that was due to Wendy or not, I will probably need to reread the fight a bit.

was assumed that he was toying with them because they weren't instantly fodderized like GS(and because he needed to circulate their magic) but in all reality he was using attacks powerful enough to pulverize their organs. plus their magic can still be used after they're dead.


i'm sure he wasn't using his full strength the entire time but can't really say he was toying with them or that he needed them alive, either. on top of using enough strength to destroy their organs he did try to kill them with that last rage blast, after all.

and since he was able to crack 'fairy sphere' while motion sick he evidently doesn't need to use much of his strength to for his attacks to surpass his roar back at tenrou


What makes Zeref Island Level then?

was just a subsidiary point

outside of scaling to natsu (zeref was the stronger of the two outside of dragon force) i'm not sure of much that'd put him at island

Rax
10-29-2017, 04:26 PM
>gets ignored


:grr

Efege
10-29-2017, 04:34 PM
>gets ignored


:grr

Red Psycho!!!

Albion
10-29-2017, 04:50 PM
was assumed that he was toying with them because they weren't instantly fodderized like GS(and because he needed to circulate their magic) but in all reality he was using attacks powerful enough to pulverize their organs. plus their magic can still be used after they're dead.


i'm sure he wasn't using his full strength the entire time but can't really say he was toying with them or that he needed them alive, either. on top of using enough strength to destroy their organs he did try to kill them with that last rage blast, after all.

and since he was able to crack 'fairy sphere' while motion sick he evidently doesn't need to use much of his strength to for his attacks to surpass his roar back at tenrou



was just a subsidiary point

outside of scaling to natsu (zeref was the stronger of the two outside of dragon force) i'm not sure of much that'd put him at island
Doesn't that just show us that even while holding back and going easy he could easily deal with them?

He was pretty much was toying with them, I don't think there was anything that could be used to say that he wasn't and nothing points that he wasn't either. He was very nonchalant during the entire fight and was showing why he was the strongest by dominating them while using the smallest of efforts up until the end where he was angered due to Natsu's words. Which I think it was Wendy who played a part in blocking that.

I wouldn't say it showed he didn't need to use much of his strength just that he was resilient enough to actually gather strength.

Tokio
10-29-2017, 05:16 PM
Doesn't that just show us that even while holding back and going easy he could easily deal with them?

He was pretty much was toying with them, I don't think there was anything that could be used to say that he wasn't and nothing points that he wasn't either. He was very nonchalant during the entire fight and was showing why he was the strongest by dominating them while using the smallest of efforts up until the end where he was angered due to Natsu's words. Which I think it was Wendy who played a part in blocking that.

there's a reason why i emphasized cobra getting his organs pummeled

the point is if he were holding back in order to preserve the slayers he wouldn't have been giving them potentially fatal injuries

he didn't settle with just beating them into submission

not to mention he actually used a magic blast against natsu


I wouldn't say it showed he didn't need to use much of his strength just that he was resilient enough to actually gather strength.

dragon slayers are barely able to use or gather any of their strength while motion sick, that's not really questionable. there's nothing to substantiate otherwise and there's no reason to assume this case would've been different.

Y
10-29-2017, 05:22 PM
Natsu isn't country level.

Acno was nerfed while he took that punch and unquantifiably weaker than his dragon form.

Albion
10-29-2017, 05:36 PM
there's a reason why i emphasized cobra getting his organs pummeled

the point is if he were holding back in order to preserve the slayers he wouldn't have been giving them potentially fatal injuries

he didn't settle with just beating them into submission

not to mention he actually used a magic blast against natsu



dragon slayers are barely able to use or gather any of their strength while motion sick, that's not really questionable. there's nothing to substantiate otherwise and there's no reason to assume this case would've been different.
I agree that he didn't try to keep them alive. But he was toying around.
The injury oesn't mean he wasn't toying with them.

Toying with someone is basically keeping them conscious/alive for pure enjoyment or stragetic purposes. Which is what he was doing. Could have killed them faster? Yes. Did he? No. Why? Because he didn't want to. The injuries doesn't matter, what matters is the mindset Acno was using. Which is just that he was toying around.

With one finger. And then is the panel we got was this. Even more proof that he was just toying around.
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-541-page-8.html

If you are talking about when he was angry that was probably due to Wendy.

Dragon Slayers have consistently shown to barely be able to move, no matter how strong they are. Them moving while being motion sick is all about willpower/resilience/endurance. Not how much strength it takes. Same with the Chariot event, Natsu and Gajeel were moving not being it takes little strength but because they willed themselves to move.

Rax
10-29-2017, 05:42 PM
Natsu isn't country level.

Acno was nerfed while he took that punch and unquantifiably weaker than his dragon form.

Fairy Sphere > Pre-RoT Acnologia Roar > Etherion


Post RoT even when weakened by motion sickness was breaking apart a much stronger version of FS and Natsu and Co were taking tons of hits by him.

- - - Updated - - -


I agree that he didn't try to keep them alive. But he was toying around.
The injury oesn't mean he wasn't toying with them.

Toying with someone is basically keeping them conscious/alive for pure enjoyment or stragetic purposes. Which is what he was doing. Could have killed them faster? Yes. Did he? No. Why? Because he didn't want to. The injuries doesn't matter, what matters is the mindset Acno was using. Which is just that he was toying around.

With one finger. And then is the panel we got was this. Even more proof that he was just toying around.
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-541-page-8.html

If you are talking about when he was angry that was probably due to Wendy.

Dragon Slayers have consistently shown to barely be able to move, no matter how strong they are. Them moving while being motion sick is all about willpower/resilience/endurance. Not how much strength it takes. Same with the Chariot event, Natsu and Gajeel were moving not being it takes little strength but because they willed themselves to move.

And he tried go annihilate Natsu once he said some dragons were kind.

Y
10-29-2017, 05:47 PM
Fairy Sphere > Pre-RoT Acnologia Roar > Etherion


Post RoT even when weakened by motion sickness was breaking apart a much stronger version of FS and Natsu and Co were taking tons of hits by him.

That doesn't address my point.

1. Dragon Acnologia > Human Acnologia.
2. Due to this, you can't use a feat from the dragon version and apply it to the human one. You'll have to prove the human version is capable of breaking that Fairy Sphere.
3. Human Acnologia was getting nerfed by motion sickness as well, all the while being inherently infernior and caught off guard due to his.

so yeah, unless you can prove he has country durability even though nerfed by motion sickness while in his human state, No.

also, pre RoT Acnologia was never accepted to be superior to Etherion, stop it.

Rax
10-29-2017, 05:49 PM
There's no way the stats of human and dragon Acnologia are tiers apart.


Especially if you think motion sickness weakened Dragon Acno is stronger than human Acno

Efege
10-29-2017, 05:52 PM
Again this Shit?

Dragon Form>Human Form.Irene shows it perfectly

Rax
10-29-2017, 05:55 PM
Two majorly different people.


You think Weekend dragon Acno > Human Acno? :giogio

Y
10-29-2017, 05:58 PM
well no

the motion sickness affected human acno through dragon acno

kind of a major point of it all.

Efege
10-29-2017, 05:59 PM
Yes,

a Dragon will be allways>a Human.

You rly think Natsu can beat Dragon Acnologia?

Tokio
10-29-2017, 06:02 PM
Natsu isn't country level.

Acno was nerfed while he took that punch and unquantifiably weaker than his dragon form.

that's all already been addressed

- country level stat is already a substantial lowball and the dragon form doesn't make a difference of whole tiers
- acno wasn't nerfed, he was only immobilized
- natsu would've needed to have surpassed acno by a large margin to bypass his resistance

blasé blah


I agree that he didn't try to keep them alive. But he was toying around.
The injury oesn't mean he wasn't toying with them.

Toying with someone is basically keeping them conscious/alive for pure enjoyment or stragetic purposes. Which is what he was doing. Could have killed them faster? Yes. Did he? No. Why? Because he didn't want to. The injuries doesn't matter, what matters is the mindset Acno was using. Which is just that he was toying around.

With one finger. And then is the panel we got was this. Even more proof that he was just toying around.
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-541-page-8.html

the injuries show the extent of the power he was using

already acknowledged that he wasn't using his full strength, but the amount of strength he was using evidently wasn't so little that you could say the attacks he was using were weaker than what a motion sick acno was capable of


Dragon Slayers have consistently shown to barely be able to move, no matter how strong they are. Them moving while being motion sick is all about willpower/resilience/endurance. Not how much strength it takes. Same with the Chariot event, Natsu and Gajeel were moving not being it takes little strength but because they willed themselves to move.

i'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. especially in referencing the chariot event

natsu and gajeel were so weakened that they couldn't walk upright, they had to crawl

it doesn't go to show that acnologia would've been able to somehow will up more than just a grain of his strength
if anything show how little willpower alone would go to help a slayer in that kind of situation

seems like you thought i was saying that his moving while motion sick was a matter of strength (?), but point is really only that he can't summon a lot of strength while motion sick - which isn't really debatable. and with that being the case only a little of his strength could've been used to crack 'fairy sphere'.

Rax
10-29-2017, 06:04 PM
And he was fighting the DSs for a while before he got affected by it.

Their durability is at least as much as FS's durability

Tokio
10-29-2017, 06:04 PM
human acno was never shown or implied to be bothered by motion sickness

also goes back to the earlier point that motion sickness doesn't actually drain slayers, i.e. they're neither less durable or have less magic because of it - they're simply unable to summon their usual amount of strength due to their being nauseous

Y
10-29-2017, 06:10 PM
that's all already been addressed

- country level stat is already a substantial lowball and the dragon form doesn't make a difference of whole tiers
- acno wasn't nerfed, he was only immobilized
- natsu would've needed to have surpassed acno by a large margin to bypass his resistance


It's not a lowball, stop that.
You'll have to proof the difference of Dragon and Human form, because in Irenes case, which is the only thing we can go off of, it did make a huge difference.

Irrelevant, unquantifiable difference.

Y
10-29-2017, 06:14 PM
You know exactly why we don't. Stop playing stupid.

Don't bring that up here again.


At this point I honestly don't care to argue for or against Fairy Tail anymore. So I'm out. I stand by what I said and there's no single other site rating Acno like you're trying to, because it requires a shitload of assumptions which we don't do.

There's a consensus on where it stands and that's what I'll end up going with whatever that might be.

This doesn't mean I'm not going to smite you if you cross your borders in here, just fyi. But I'm out.

Albion
10-29-2017, 06:15 PM
the injuries show the extent of the power he was using

already acknowledged that he wasn't using his full strength, but the amount of strength he was using evidently wasn't so little that you could say the attacks he was using were weaker than what a motion sick acno was capable of



i'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. especially in referencing the chariot event

natsu and gajeel were so weakened that they couldn't walk upright, they had to crawl

it doesn't go to show that acnologia would've been able to somehow will up more than just a grain of his strength
if anything show how little willpower alone would go to help a slayer in that kind of situation

seems like you thought i was saying that his moving while motion sick was a matter of strength (?), but point is really only that he can't summon a lot of strength while motion sick - which isn't really debatable. and with that being the case only a little of his strength could've been used to crack 'fairy sphere'.
That injury shows just how much stronger he was than them. It was a simple kick that caused the injury.

Those attacks were probably weaker than motion sick Dragon Acno tbh.

Hm yeah I misunderstood what you said there. Sorry about that.

Rax
10-29-2017, 06:17 PM
That injury shows just how much stronger he was than them. It was a simple kick that caused the injury.

Those attacks were probably weaker than motion sick Dragon Acno tbh.

Hm yeah I misunderstood what you said there. Sorry about that.

I highly doubt a drastically weakened dragon Acno is above human Acno

Y
10-29-2017, 06:20 PM
I will refer you to the panels posted above

I'm warning you to bring it up one last time in the wrong thread.

Efege
10-29-2017, 06:24 PM
Even a Profile "Thread" is now cursed.

Surprised?

Y
10-29-2017, 06:25 PM
Even a Profile "Thread" is now cursed.

Surprised?

I'm moving all EF posts now.

Seriously I'm gonna start deleting if this continues.

Efege
10-29-2017, 06:28 PM
I'm moving all EF posts now.

Seriously I'm gonna start deleting if this continues.

What means "EF"?

NVM,Eternal Flare

Rax
10-29-2017, 06:33 PM
I'm warning you to bring it up one last time in the wrong thread.

But it'd relevant to the thread.

Zu
10-29-2017, 06:55 PM
A bullet from a handgun has about 1 KJ of kinetic energy---about as much as a 70kg person going 5.5 m/s or 20km/hr, yet the bullet is far more lethal...something to consider.

Rax
10-29-2017, 07:02 PM
A bullet from a handgun has about 1 KJ of kinetic energy---about as much as a 70kg person going 5.5 m/s or 20km/hr, yet the bullet is far more lethal...something to consider.

That's cause speed and penetration

Zu
10-29-2017, 07:03 PM
That's cause speed and penetration

That's right

Rax
10-29-2017, 07:04 PM
What's that got to do with the thread?

Zu
10-29-2017, 07:07 PM
What's that got to do with the thread?

Shouldn't have to explain it. It basically means I agree with Y.

Skeptik
10-29-2017, 07:31 PM
I agree As Well. If this flies then it all will. Meaning other series will get boosts off of assumptions too.

Tokio
10-29-2017, 07:50 PM
It's not a lowball, stop that.
You'll have to proof the difference of Dragon and Human form, because in Irenes case, which is the only thing we can go off of, it did make a huge difference.

Irrelevant, unquantifiable difference.

what rax said, honestly. etherion with the lowest end possible would result in higher results than country, albeit not by much. on top of that, prior to eating the 'ravines', which by itself is considerably above etherion, acnologia was already by far the most powerful character in the series even in his human form. topping even characters who claim to be able to wipe all of fiore off the map.

i know, i know, august's statement wouldn't fly

but it should further support that within the narrative RoT dragon acno quite clearly wouldn't need very much of his power to replicate something like etherion. not saying the difference between human and dragon forms isn't notable, but it wouldn't be accurate to argue that human acno with his best wouldn't be able to replicate a feat dragon acno should be able to perform at his most casual; or that you wouldn't need to be at least country level to bypass human RoT acno's resistance

know you're out, but discussion probably couldn't progress if i left your point unaddressed

Mythoclast
10-29-2017, 07:52 PM
I agree As Well. If this flies then it all will. Meaning other series will get boosts off of assumptions too.

This.

Eternal flare is based of off faulty reasoning.If it gets accepted (which it won't) other series should also benefit from such faulty reasoning too.
Which is dumb tbh..