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Gaidou
02-22-2012, 12:11 AM
Here: http://i12.mangareader.net/one-piece/582/one-piece-1310347.jpg

Just what are the exact calcs here? And did he actually "toss" the mountain or what? I've truly never understood this scene.

Minty
02-22-2012, 12:21 AM
It's millions of tons of force.

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 12:22 AM
In Calculations?

Minty
02-22-2012, 12:24 AM
I don't know the exact calcs, but I know the outcome is over a million tons. It's not multiple millions, though. It's in lifting strength since he threw the rock.

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 12:27 AM
He threw it? What the fuck, where?!

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 12:28 AM
He threw a large rock at the big hill thing that's breaking in the middle panel.

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 12:43 AM
Greatest Mid Tier Strength feat of all time?

Minty
02-22-2012, 12:44 AM
Greatest strength feat in the manga currently.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 12:45 AM
No it's not. Jaws' and Garp's feats surpass this.

As for best mid-tier strength feat, probably either that or pushing apart the buildings.

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 12:48 AM
Is Ice a heavier substance than Stone?

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 12:50 AM
Rock is generally heavier.

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 12:55 AM
There we have it, then.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 01:00 AM
I don't get what you're saying. Jozu's feat was far superior to what Luffy did if that's what you mean.

Minty
02-22-2012, 01:04 AM
Jozu's feat was not superior.

Look how large the trees are. Then look how tall the trees are compared to Luffy. Look how large the rock is compared to the trees. Then look how high Luffy threw it.

Ice is less dense than even water. Garp's feat is lower than this as well.

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 01:08 AM
I don't get what you're saying. Jozu's feat was far superior to what Luffy did if that's what you mean.

Luffy seemingly tossed something that was larger than the Iceburg that Joz tossed.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 01:10 AM
Jozu's feat was not superior.

Yes it was, in every way. It was much heavier, it was much bigger, he had to rip it from the ground and ice is harder to grip.

There's also, you now, common sense. Even if calcs say otherwise (calcs supports what I'm saying btw) it's obvious ODa did not intend for an injured Luffy to throw more weight than a Jozu that was exerting himself.

Great Potato
02-22-2012, 01:23 AM
I wouldn't call that a mountain.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 01:26 AM
Finally found the iceberg's calc, dimensions (http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=25021999&postcount=395) and weight. (http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=25022854&postcount=400) not gonna do the math but a few obvious things.

Luffy's rock weighs between 123000 and 18000 tons, the iceberg is between 907200 and 1.81millions tons. So more than seven times heavier.

Luffy threw the rock 100m. I don't have the distance for Joze's toss, but the iceberg is 144m wide and Joze obviously threw it farther than that.

So, anyone cares to do the calc proper? I'm guessing the result will be amusing.http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series3/2z7exox.png

http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=722000&highlight=iceberg&page=4

Gaidou
02-22-2012, 01:43 AM
Seems they're saying the feats are near-comparable.

Great Potato
02-22-2012, 01:45 AM
7 times heavier and thrown a farther distance is near comparable?

Minty
02-22-2012, 01:47 AM
PoPscicle, my brother. http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=25022854&postcount=400

The iceburg was over 900 thousand tons. Low-end.

The rock Luffy threw was a little over a million tons with low-end calcs.

The force needed would be between 13-19 million tons of force. Jozu didn't throw the ice as far as Luffy threw the rock. Need I say more?

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 02:02 AM
You think an injured Luffy can throw more than Jozu? :lmao

And the rock Luffy threw was not a million tons with low end calcs. The force exerted to throw it maybe but the not the weight of the rock itself.

Minty
02-22-2012, 02:07 AM
You think an injured Luffy can throw more than Jozu? :lmao

And the rock Luffy threw was not a million tons with low end calcs. The force exerted to throw it maybe but the not the weight of the rock itself.

It doesn't matter how Luffy SHOULD compare to Jozu. For now, we'll just say that isn't Jozu's max power. That's why they used Luffy's feat to powerscale.

And I saw that 1.01 million thing somewhere. Must've been mistaken, cuz I can't find it. I know on the OBD wiki, they have Luffy as a million ton lifter. With the rock being his highest feat, I assumed they meant that.

The Gaddess
02-22-2012, 02:15 AM
You think an injured Luffy can throw more than Jozu? :lmao

And the rock Luffy threw was not a million tons with low end calcs. The force exerted to throw it maybe but the not the weight of the rock itself.

This is why I say you shouldn't over analyze the feats. Just take in what you felt was happening. Jozu's feat was definitely a better feat. Oda just didn't happen to have a calculator or scale when he drew that panel...

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 02:18 AM
It doesn't matter how Luffy SHOULD compare to Jozu. For now, we'll just say that isn't Jozu's max power. That's why they used Luffy's feat to powerscale.

And I saw that 1.01 million thing somewhere. Must've been mistaken, cuz I can't find it. I know on the OBD wiki, they have Luffy as a million ton lifter. With the rock being his highest feat, I assumed they meant that.

Of course it matters. It's ridiculous to say an injured Luffy can lift more weight than a Jozu that's exerting himself. Calculations don't override common sense.

I don't ever remember that rock being calc'd at a million tons. Jozu's iceberg is accepted as being over a million tons however, and the force required to throw is is over 50 million low end
iirc.


This is why I say you shouldn't over analyze the feats. Just take in what you felt was happening. Jozu's feat was definitely a better feat. Oda just didn't happen to have a calculator or scale when he drew that panel...

I agrree, I'm just mentioning the calcs for the hell of it.

The Gaddess
02-22-2012, 02:28 AM
Yeah, but once calcs enter the scene, we kinda usually go off course to the point where we don't know how it all began... Things get messed up...

V
02-22-2012, 02:31 AM
Remember when Grrblt did the calc with Joz's iceburg feat :lmao

Minty
02-22-2012, 02:40 AM
Of course it matters. It's ridiculous to say an injured Luffy can lift more weight than a Jozu that's exerting himself. Calculations don't override common sense.

I don't ever remember that rock being calc'd at a million tons. Jozu's iceberg is accepted as being over a million tons however, and the force required to throw is is over 50 million low end
iirc.



I agrree, I'm just mentioning the calcs for the hell of it.


You know Luffy has better lifting feats than Son Goku from Dragonball. The calcs don't matter. They used Luffy's feat as a comparison in order to powerscale. Luffy having a better feat doesn't mean he's stronger. If that's the case, Chopper would be faster than Luffy and Zoro in Alabasta, but we know they are both faster, so Zoro and Luffy go from supersonic to supersonic + based on Chopper's supersonic+ feat.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 03:39 AM
You know Luffy has better lifting feats than Son Goku from Dragonball. The calcs don't matter. They used Luffy's feat as a comparison in order to powerscale. Luffy having a better feat doesn't mean he's stronger. If that's the case, Chopper would be faster than Luffy and Zoro in Alabasta, but we know they are both faster, so Zoro and Luffy go from supersonic to supersonic + based on Chopper's supersonic+ feat.

Lifting strength wasn't ever particularly important in Dragonball, Dragonball is pretty inconsistent and Dragonball is not One Piece. The point is that it's obvious that in Oda's mind the rock Luffy threw was far lighter than what Jozu threw, even if the calculations say otherwise.

Minty
02-22-2012, 03:43 AM
That's what I'm trying to say. Almost...

Rim
02-22-2012, 03:45 AM
Maybe it was super dense ice, think of that? Oh, and when did this rock throwing feat happen?

V
02-22-2012, 04:07 AM
Nothing suggests the Ice was anything special and is just regular Ice. Luffy tossing a rock post war after all his injuries. I mean it is just silly to say that Joz's feat is inferior to this when it was clear Joz was putting a lot of effort into it.

Rim
02-22-2012, 04:44 AM
Nothing suggests the Ice was anything special and is just regular Ice. Luffy tossing a rock post war after all his injuries. I mean it is just silly to say that Joz's feat is inferior to this when it was clear Joz was putting a lot of effort into it.

oh, that's what. thanks

Chahige
02-22-2012, 07:24 PM
For those who are curious how Garp's, Jozu's and Luffy's feats come out when calculated:
Garp's humongous iron boll feat (http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=38294864&postcount=121): 1.5 billion tons-force, and the iron ball itself is estimated at 9.9 million (metric) tons (and he did it with one arm :argh).
Jozu's iceberg feat (http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=38288429&postcount=95): 57 million tons-force, and the iceberg itself is estimated at 0,94 million (metric) tons.
Luffy's hill toss: 13-19 million tons-force (unfortunately, I only found references (http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=722000)to it and not the calc itself).

Keep in mind, however, that while Oda certainly is likely to do a general assessment of the feats his characters performs, he probably doesn't do a precise evaluation. Hence, while it's fun to see feats quantified, you should consider the context when viewing a calculation. Well, that is unless you are debating cross verses matches, in which case calculations could come in handy since the quantified information (especially when it comes to speed) make it easier to compare characters capabilities.

That being said, Luffy's feat is extremely impressive, as not only does he show herculean physical strength by lifting and throwing it, but also by breaking the enormous boulder from it's foundation with a punch in the first place - not to mention that he did it in all while severely wounded.

Though apart from Garp's and Jozu's feats, I would wager that the strength feats of Calgara, Norrland and Newgate (and subsequently Sakazuki and Shanks feats for matching Edward) also surpasses Luffy's.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 07:28 PM
I remember that Norland's island moving feat was largely unquantifiable, because we don't know how much land he moved, but was any calculations ever done on Calgara's ironball feat?

Chahige
02-22-2012, 07:55 PM
I was actually thinking of Calgara's awesome iron ball feat (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2393-12/one-piece/chapter-286.html) (and subsequently Norrland matching his strength), but though I have looked, I haven't found any calculation of it unfortunately.

Regardless, I did a quick estimation and got the iron ball to weigh 17-24 thousand metric tons, and considering that he swung it out some 100+ metres, it would probably come out quite impressive.

I Love Sticky Buns
02-22-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm fairly sure that in Odas mind, big = heavy, and that's as far as it goes.

Pimp of Pimps
02-22-2012, 10:23 PM
I was actually thinking of Calgara's awesome iron ball feat (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2393-12/one-piece/chapter-286.html) (and subsequently Norrland matching his strength), but though I have looked, I haven't found any calculation of it unfortunately.

Regardless, I did a quick estimation and got the iron ball to weigh 17-24 thousand metric tons, and considering that he swung it out some 100+ metres, it would probably come out quite impressive.

Well, Skypeia was a while ago so the Metadome of NF probably wasn't around at the time. The calc you did was pretty interesting though.


I'm fairly sure that in Odas mind, big = heavy, and that's as far as it goes.

Most likely, yeah.

MM
02-23-2012, 11:41 AM
Luffy was not just injured but severely injured. Luffy more injured than Zoro if needing breathing apparatus is any indication. Law pretty much said that he if Luffy were to exert himself he could die.

That said, I do not think we should look to deep into this "feat". I doubt Oda thought any more about than "what would be good way to display Luffy's rampage.

More so I really that doubt that Luffy is anywhere close to having the strength that Garp/Jozu has. Post Timeskip we seen that Luffy's strength grew massively as well as shown that he can use G3 as a gatteling move while pretimeskip he had to strain himself to use one one limb.


Garp's humongous iron boll feat: 1.5 billion tons-force, and the iron ball itself is estimated at 9.9 million (metric) tons (and he did it with one arm ).
Jozu's iceberg feat: 57 million tons-force, and the iceberg itself is estimated at 0,94 million (metric) tons.
Luffy's hill toss: 13-19 million tons-force (unfortunately, I only found references to it and not the calc itself).


You seem good i finding calculations. How does Saul/Oar jr's lifting feat of the Marineship compare? As well that Dorry lifted an entire skeleton the roughly size of an island to trap Luffy in.

Do giants have the best strength feats in one piece? I tried looking for calculations in the past but I couldn't find any.

Chahige
02-23-2012, 12:42 PM
^I didn't do any of the calculations; the credit for Garp's and Jozu's goes to God Movement (I actually provided links to his calculations in my post) and the Luffy one was done by EM and Genyosai, two other OBDers.

I'm a little out of my depth when it comes to calculating tons-force and these kinds of things. But Junior's and Saul's feats would likely not yield very impressive numbers (though they were awesome visually - especially Saul's), considering that Buster Call ships probably only weigh some 4.5 thousand tons (judging by how much 15th century warships weighted). And though the Sea King skeleton weighed a fair bit to say the least, Dorry only lifted it briefly, while Garp's, Jozu's and Luffy's feats are lifting and throwing, which takes considerable more effort - and thus requires more physical strength.

MM
02-23-2012, 01:25 PM
Yeah that is why I ask if you seen any plus you seen more knowledgeable on the topic than myself.

I see although I do have to question if it really that difficult for giants to replicate those throwing feats consider their strength and size. Do you see Sanjuan Wolf doing worse Garp in the thorwing iron ball considering it fits in the palm of his hand?

Chahige
02-23-2012, 02:38 PM
My bad, I somehow managed to miss-read you.

While giants excel at physical strength, their natural advantages matters less and less the higher up the ladder you go (see ES Wadatsumi vs. Jinbe). For instance, John Giant is likely the strongest giant shown thus far, yet Newgate effortlessly blocked his furious two-handed downswing with one arm, and while Junior and Sanjuan may be physically stronger than John, I don't think the difference is significant enough that they come close to matching guys like Edward and Garp.

So yeah, I don't think Sanjuan can replicate Garp's feat - though he may be able to at the end of the story, but that is also partly because Garp was hardly exerting himself throwing his cannon ball.

By the way, Garp's iron ball was several times Sunny in diameter; 134 metre according to God Movement, so I doubt it would fit in Sanjuan's palm.

MM
02-23-2012, 03:57 PM
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4434/juanwolf2.jpg

Look at the guy in comparison to the giants. Even if the iron ball is over 100m in diameter. Sanjuan's hand is increasable large that it appears to bigger than the giants who are in front of Marineford unlike Sanjuan who is much further back. As well that we did not even see his whole body yet.

Putting tiers aside I have hard time seeing him not being able to toss something so much much much smaller than himself. It would be like if you couldn't toss a small iron ball for a few meters.

I Love Sticky Buns
02-23-2012, 05:56 PM
Olympic athletes dedicate a lot of time and effort training to throw small iron balls. Don't downplay it, homeslice.

Chahige
02-23-2012, 11:14 PM
Wadatsumi is pretty big too
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5619/wadak.jpg
But while the iron ball may only be as big as Wadatsumi's head, I don't think he could throw Garp's iron ball, since Jinbe was able to overpower him in physical strength - and that was with Wadatsumi's strength doubled by ES - and I doubt Jinbe could do it - or current Luffy for that matter, who is not that far off from Jinbe in terms of physical strength.

That said, Sanjuan is not Wadatsumi, and Garp likely have even more impressive herculean strength feats up his sleeve when he is pushing himself, so perhaps I could visualize Sanjuan throwing Garp's iron ball.

Pimp of Pimps
02-23-2012, 11:16 PM
It's possible San Juan is actually of average physical strength relative to his size, in which case he wouldn't be able to throw Garp's ball and chain.


Sorry, I tried by best to make that not sound sexual.

I Love Sticky Buns
02-23-2012, 11:24 PM
I said it better :datass.

Chahige
02-23-2012, 11:39 PM
From eyeballing the image Maskedmenace provided, Sanjuan's head alone seems to be at least 200 metres from chin to top, and while he may have similarly screwed up proportions like Wadatsumi (though from what little we have seen, Sanjuan seems to be more proportionate), it indicates that Garp's ball would be akin to a football for him.

And though, being peak human like I am, I'm not exactly an expert on ordinary human capacity, I would think even people of average strength can lift an iron football weighing ~15 kg and toss it ~22 cm.

Pimp of Pimps
02-23-2012, 11:40 PM
I was always under the impression San Juan has a really big head for his body.

Chahige
02-23-2012, 11:47 PM
He probably have, yeah, but it doesn't seem nearly as prominent as with Wadatsumi (http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5619/wadak.jpg); here (http://www.mangareader.net/103-47298-9/one-piece/chapter-575.html) and here (http://www.mangareader.net/103-47876-2/one-piece/chapter-576.html), Sanjuan's shoulders, hands and arms seems to be more proportionate compared to his head.

V
02-23-2012, 11:55 PM
How they got him into ID is beyond me

Gaidou
02-24-2012, 12:06 AM
He has to be able to alter his size or something. If Oda ass pulled that then I'd smack his momma.

Edit: Also on-topic check this out, provided by Stilzkin of Narutofan.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/Lieutenant_Pliskin/rockthrow-3.jpg

How many millions of tons of force did Luffy exert to toss this?

Pimp of Pimps
02-24-2012, 12:10 AM
The calcs says 13-19 million tons.

Tendou
02-25-2012, 07:04 PM
This is all blogged.

Check either GMs, Chaos, Brohans or Cable guys blog.

The Gaddess
02-26-2012, 12:00 AM
Cableguy is still active? Get that mofo over here...