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Mercantilist
06-18-2015, 12:16 AM
2352The Future Pirate King

Series of origin: One Piece
Species: Human
Age: 17 Pre Timeskip, 19 Post Timeskip
DC: Small City Level in Base, City Level with Gears | Small Island Level with Gear Fourth
Durability: City Level, Small Island Level Blunt Force immunity
Speed: MHS in Base, MHS+ in G2, HS+ in G3 | Massively Hypersonic+
Stamina: High, can fight for hours.| 20 Minutes
Standard Equipment: None
Weaknesses: Being submerged in water, piercing and cutting weapons. After using G4, Luffy is severely weakened and cannot use Haki for 10 minutes
Powers and Abilities: Gomu Gomu no Mi, turns him into rubber extending his range, access to G2 which massively increases his speed, G3 which massively increases his physical strength, and G4, which buffs all of Luffy's stats for a limited period of time, has all 3 forms of Haki which gives him pre cognition, can sense people's auras, enhance his physical attacks and defense, attack intangibles, and knock out people with weaker willpower

Base/Gear 2/3 | Gear 4

V
06-18-2015, 12:19 AM
Im not sure if his stamina is that good, he's always blowing his load 10 minutes into a fight.

Rax
06-18-2015, 12:19 AM
He's only MHS with Gear 4

Nothing else

Kane
06-18-2015, 12:27 AM
MHS in all forms, unless if you think he couldn't keep up with Kalifa.

Akrona
06-18-2015, 12:27 AM
I'm not really sure on Luffy's speed either. He's definitely MHS at the very least, but what feat makes him MHS+, especially in base form?

Rax
06-18-2015, 12:29 AM
>Calling low tier trash like Kalifa MHS

:lmao

Alex D. Boss
06-18-2015, 12:30 AM
G4 > Luffy himself

:hhh

Kane
06-18-2015, 12:33 AM
If you dodge lightning, what does that make you?

Rax
06-18-2015, 12:33 AM
An outlier seeing as it was a trash tier :lmao

Kane
06-18-2015, 12:35 AM
An outlier seeing as it was a trash tier :lmao

That does not make it an outlier.

W
06-18-2015, 12:35 AM
Not a outliner anyone above Kalifa can react to lighting.

Rax
06-18-2015, 12:38 AM
It's an outlier to think a trash tier like Kalifa could dodge lightning because it would mean having the Lightning fruit would be entirely useless :lmao

Kane
06-18-2015, 12:39 AM
It's an outlier to think a trash tier like Kalifa could dodge lightning because it would mean having the Lightning fruit would be entirely useless :lmao

The lightning fruit is about DC and intang. Enel didn't blitz people.

W
06-18-2015, 12:40 AM
It isn't a outliner and it doesn't make the lighting fruit trash either you dumbass, that's like saying because Luffy dodged Pacifsta laser Kizaru's DF is useless.

Rax
06-18-2015, 12:50 AM
The lightning and light fruit's obvious main perks are their speeds.

Kalifa being trash would mean people like Garp and co are gonna be like FTL :mihawk

Kane
06-18-2015, 12:57 AM
The lightning and light fruit's obvious main perks are their speeds.

Kalifa being trash would mean people like Garp and co are gonna be like FTL :mihawk

Light yes, but lightning no. Enel doesn't blitz people.

And scaling doesn't work like that.

Rax
06-18-2015, 12:59 AM
Bullshit.

Enel wouldn't be worth piss if someone on Kalifa's tier was able to dodge his attacks. It would mean he wouldn't be able to hit pretty much anyone in OP

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:02 AM
Bullshit.

Enel wouldn't be worth piss if someone on Kalifa's tier was able to dodge his attacks. It would mean he wouldn't be able to hit pretty much anyone in OP

Enel is like Lucci level or a bit higher, Kalifa could reasonably dodge some of Lucci's attacks just like Jozu could react to Kuzan and Vista could react to Mihawk. Just because you're weaker doesn't mean you can't keep up with them.

W
06-18-2015, 01:03 AM
Shit using that shit logic, I guess Kizaru is buggy tier then :tendou

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:04 AM
Would Poison resistance count as an ability?

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:04 AM
Kuzan is only LS when in his lightning body. His normal speeds are not even close.

If Kalifa is able to dodge Enel's attacks that means Enel would be fodder to almost everyone in OP :geg

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:06 AM
Kuzan is only LS when in his lightning body. His normal speeds are not even close.

If Kalifa is able to dodge Enel's attacks that means Enel would be fodder to almost everyone in OP :geg

Enel is fodder in OP, the fuck?

W
06-18-2015, 01:25 AM
Kuzan is only LS when in his lightning body. His normal speeds are not even close.

If Kalifa is able to dodge Enel's attacks that means Enel would be fodder to almost everyone in OP :geg
Most of his attacks would be useless because people can already dodge lasers making him Buggy tier :zaru.

The fact you Kalifa who's at the bottom of mid tier fodder is actually hilarious.

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:26 AM
Enel is fodder in OP, the fuck?

If someone as weak as Kalifa can dodge his attacks then pretty much anyone now can fodderize Enel :geg

W
06-18-2015, 01:28 AM
If someone as weak as Kalifa can dodge his attacks then pretty much anyone now can fodderize Enel :geg
Not really and Enel isn't as string as you make him out to be...

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:29 AM
If someone as weak as Kalifa can dodge his attacks then pretty much anyone now can fodderize Enel :geg
You're acting like dodging an attack from somebody puts you on their level, it does not.

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Enel is like a borderline high tier.

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:29 AM
Enel has shit durability

Anyone would be able to just 1 shot Haki punch him at this point if they can just dance around his attacks and his Logia element speed :geg

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:32 AM
Enel has shit durability

Anyone would be able to just 1 shot Haki punch him at this point if they can just dance around his attacks and his Logia element speed :geg

Kalifa doesn't have haki, so you've just proven yourself wrong.

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:33 AM
And any trash currently in the NW does

Meaning they can all fodderize Enel

Kaifa would just bubble Enel

W
06-18-2015, 01:34 AM
And any trash currently in the NW does

Meaning they can all fodderize Enel

Kaifa would just bubble Enel
You do realise her DF doesn't harm you.

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:34 AM
Bubbles mean water

Water means death to DF users.

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:36 AM
And any trash currently in the NW does

Meaning they can all fodderize Enel

Kaifa would just bubble Enel

Kalifa <<<<< Average NW fighter

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Bubbles mean water

Water means death to DF users.

Incorrect, it has to be standing water.

W
06-18-2015, 01:36 AM
Bubbles mean water

Water means death to DF users.
There has to be a certain amount of water dumbass....

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:38 AM
Meaning anyone in the NW can fodderize Enel :mihawk

And she could just keep popping bubbles on him.

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:39 AM
Meaning anyone in the NW can fodderize Enel :mihawk

And she could just keep popping bubbles on him.

:giogio

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:40 AM
Water adds up, mang.

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:41 AM
How much water is released from a bubble popping? Like a couple drops?

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:41 AM
Depends on the size, noob :smug

Kane
06-18-2015, 01:41 AM
Your trolling is almost as bad as Nightfall's.

Mercantilist
06-18-2015, 03:14 AM
Its not outlier. Kalifa isn't trash, she's low mid tier. Buffalo dodged Nami's lightning as well, and Kyros easily smashed him to the ground. G2 Luffy >> Kyros in speed, so even if you don't trust Kalifa, there is plenty of proof that Luffy is currently MHS+. Also, he dodged hundreds of Hody's water bullets at once, which are all double digit mach. In base. Easily. And Pacifista lasers easily. And reacted to Doflamingo, who can dice apart 4 digit mach meteors at point blank.

Its pretty obvious that Luffy is MHS+ in pretty much any incarnation but G3, in which he is still HS+.

WILD
06-18-2015, 03:25 AM
Its not outlier. Kalifa isn't trash, she's low mid tier. Buffalo dodged Nami's lightning as well, and Kyros easily smashed him to the ground. G2 Luffy >> Kyros in speed, so even if you don't trust Kalifa, there is plenty of proof that Luffy is currently MHS+. Also, he dodged hundreds of Hody's water bullets at once, which are all double digit mach. In base. Easily. And Pacifista lasers easily. And reacted to Doflamingo, who can dice apart 4 digit mach meteors at point blank.

Its pretty obvious that Luffy is MHS+ in pretty much any incarnation but G3, in which he is still HS+.
Double digit Mach is hypersonic, Pacifista Lasers aren't quantified to have a specific speed, and that calc is extremely shaky considering a meteor moving at those speeds would have caused far more destruction then it actually did. I don't think he's MHS+ in Base, the only forms I'd even regard that as a possibility is Gear 2 or Gear 4

Mercantilist
06-18-2015, 03:31 AM
Double digit mach is hypersonic, but he dodged hundreds of them at once. Imagine hundreds of 10km/h, bullet sized projectiles flying towards you. If you can dodge them, then you are waaay above hypersonic.

The meteor's power was countered by Fujitora's gravity (he can change the direction of gravity), as well as Law's room slice and Doffy's five colour strings. Admittedly, it didn't cause much damage as it still should have, but thats not enough grounds to dismiss the speed. Authors aren't scientists.

WILD
06-18-2015, 04:12 AM
Double digit mach is hypersonic, but he dodged hundreds of them at once. Imagine hundreds of 10km/h, bullet sized projectiles flying towards you. If you can dodge them, then you are waaay above hypersonic.

The meteor's power was countered by Fujitora's gravity (he can change the direction of gravity), as well as Law's room slice and Doffy's five colour strings. Admittedly, it didn't cause much damage as it still should have, but thats not enough grounds to dismiss the speed. Authors aren't scientists.
You don't have to dodge hundreds of those bullets they're not all concentrated they're spread out, I don't know where you're getting that he had to dodge all of them. That entire calc made a large assumption that the meteor came from space when that was never shown to be the case, considering it's the New World he could've gotten the material from a Floating Landmass and since the origin wasn't shown there's no way to prove it one way or the other. HS has a large range, you could be twice as fast as a Hypersonic attack and still not be anywhere near MHS. I don't see anything that shows he's MHS in base aside from scaling from Kalifa which IIRC that calc got revised later and the results weren't anywhere near as high as Mach 300. I have to disagree with this.

Mercantilist
06-18-2015, 04:18 AM
What was the revised speed? Kalifa was Douriki 630, Rob Lucci being 4000 Douriki is over 6x faster than Kalifa. Even her being Mach 17 in the revised calc would make Luffy MHS+.

As for the bullet dodging thing, he was basically standing still while dodging them. He was still dodging multiple at the same time, reacting to them. Thats MHS+

WILD
06-18-2015, 04:25 AM
What was the revised speed? Kalifa was Douriki 630, Rob Lucci being 4000 Douriki is over 6x faster than Kalifa. Even her being Mach 17 in the revised calc would make Luffy MHS+.

As for the bullet dodging thing, he was basically standing still while dodging them. He was still dodging multiple at the same time, reacting to them. Thats MHS+
And when was it stated that those numbers scaled linearly? I don't ever recall that being the case; and no you could be Mach 60 and dodge multiple attacks going Mach 15, that in no way shape or form makes you MHS+. That logic is completely unfounded.

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Wait a second, when Luffy dodged the explosion at Punk Hazard was that in Gear Second or Base Form?

Mercantilist
06-18-2015, 05:21 AM
Hmm, you're completely right. Douriki linear scaling is an invalid argument. In a similar fashion, Gray is not linearly scaling either, so no Mach 6000 B.S. for Gray unlike what Rax says.

Still, the lightning argument stands. Buffalo dodged Nami's lightning, Luffy >> Buffalo, base or not. He is MHS+.

As for the explosion, it was base Luffy who reacted, but he used a G2 attack after, so he may have activated, but on panel it is most likely that he didn't.

Rax
06-18-2015, 05:25 AM
Dodging lightning doesn't instantly make you MHS+

Unless there was a decent showing of utterly outspeeding it you'd only be MHS

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Hmm, you're completely right. Douriki linear scaling is an invalid argument. In a similar fashion, Gray is not linearly scaling either, so no Mach 6000 B.S. for Gray unlike what Rax says.

Still, the lightning argument stands. Buffalo dodged Nami's lightning, Luffy >> Buffalo, base or not. He is MHS+.

As for the explosion, it was base Luffy who reacted, but he used a G2 attack after, so he may have activated, but on panel it is most likely that he didn't.

The 1/200th stat scaling for Gray is entirely valid unless you can prove to me that somehow Law of Retrogression doesn't work on speed

Even if Doriate was Mach 4, which is below FT trash from the first like 60 chapters, that'd still make Gray Mach 800

WILD
06-18-2015, 05:27 AM
Hmm, you're completely right. Douriki linear scaling is an invalid argument. In a similar fashion, Gray is not linearly scaling either, so no Mach 6000 B.S. for Gray unlike what Rax says.

Still, the lightning argument stands. Buffalo dodged Nami's lightning, Luffy >> Buffalo, base or not. He is MHS+.

As for the explosion, it was base Luffy who reacted, but he used a G2 attack after, so he may have activated, but on panel it is most likely that he didn't.
Rax is right, Lightning can be as slow as Mach 300, dodging it would only make you MHS not MHS+

Rax
06-18-2015, 05:28 AM
Lightning's standard speed is Mach 440

Mercantilist
06-18-2015, 08:56 AM
HOLY HYPE!

Did you guys see chapter 790 One Piece? I thought that Dressrosa's latest chapters were irredeemably bad, but that King Kong Gun + Doflamingo's glasses finally destroyed, restored my faith in Goda.

On topic. King Kong Gun looks to be easily Mountain+. Should I change the DC already or is it too early to decide?

Rax
06-18-2015, 08:59 AM
That chapter was pretty boring.

All is was was a slightly bigger Kong Gun with a different name.

KKG is NOT mountain level :lmao

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The attack in terms of DC doesn't even look above average MCB and only gets scaled from shit.

I ran out of good names
06-18-2015, 11:28 AM
Would Poison resistance count as an ability?
It should definetly get a mention.

Lightning's standard speed is Mach 440Correct.

Gon Freccss
06-18-2015, 01:09 PM
Gear Third doesn't decrease your speed. His speed stays the same.

His power in Gear Third is also town+ level. Don't see how he is small city level in base. His speed should be about HS+ too. I have no idea about Gear Fourth though.

Dellinger
06-18-2015, 01:12 PM
Let RH downplay every single fucking feat of OP characters.

Luffy is 4 digit machs in base.Small city level in base and his strength grows even more with gears.

Fist of Destruction
06-18-2015, 01:16 PM
He dodge Explosion in Base form. G4 Luffy Blitz Doflamingo who has MHS+ Speed .

Current king Kong Gun is Mountain + easily. He was able to destroy a chunk of Island and made a deep Hole.

Skeptik
06-18-2015, 01:47 PM
That chapter was pretty boring.

All is was was a slightly bigger Kong Gun with a different name.

KKG is NOT mountain level :lmao

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The attack in terms of DC doesn't even look above average MCB and only gets scaled from shit.

Really? Looked along the same lvl as natsus dragon king punch. In terms of dc anyway.

Rax
06-18-2015, 01:50 PM
It wasn't even as big as the hill thing behind it and the chunks of land it broke was only like MCB sized

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Let RH downplay every single fucking feat of OP characters.

Luffy is 4 digit machs in base.Small city level in base and his strength grows even more with gears.

Show me a feat that makes him 4 digit mach in base

Dellinger
06-18-2015, 02:15 PM
It wasn't even as big as the hill thing behind it and the chunks of land it broke was only like MCB sized

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Show me a feat that makes him 4 digit mach in base
Luffy's base speed is on par with Doflamingo's.That's enough.

Rax
06-18-2015, 02:24 PM
And what made him 4 digit mach speed?

Skeptik
06-18-2015, 02:54 PM
And what made him 4 digit mach speed?

When he dragged law to dressrosa at a ridiculous speed...? Lol. And slid city blocks at the same time.

Dellinger
06-19-2015, 10:16 AM
And what made him 4 digit mach speed?

Reacting to meteors at point blank range maybe?Stop with the crap.

Akrona
06-19-2015, 03:32 PM
That Kong Gun was MCB to city level. Why is it being claimed to be mountain level+? It didn't even destroy the entire city iirc.

Mercantilist
07-09-2015, 04:31 AM
I just edited in KKG as Large Mountain+ to potentially Small Island. Does any disagree with this DC?

Rax
07-09-2015, 04:38 AM
KKG is not mountain level or small island level :geg

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Reacting to meteors at point blank range maybe?Stop with the crap.

You act like reacting to a Meteor means you're instantly MHS when they saw it coming from miles away and it was slow enough that fodder got a good distance away before it hit

Rim
07-09-2015, 04:46 AM
Enel was high tier though. He wasn't used to getting hit, but he was superhuman, and he probably was among the best in ability with observation haki. His DC, speed, and level of haki mastery was easily a match for a lot of vice admirals.

He was like as strong as cavendish or hakuba :psyduck

WILD
07-09-2015, 05:57 AM
I just edited in KKG as Large Mountain+ to potentially Small Island. Does any disagree with this DC?
Potentially Small Island? What? Why the hell would that even be considered a possibility?

Rax
07-09-2015, 06:23 AM
He's not even mountain level unless the UBD goes back to using scaling :mihawk

Mercantilist
07-09-2015, 06:34 AM
Potentially Small Island? What? Why the hell would that even be considered a possibility?

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Rib78/One_Piece_-_King_Kong_Gun

Rax
07-09-2015, 06:37 AM
The UBD doesn't accept scaling, so that isn't working here.

WILD
07-09-2015, 06:51 AM
http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Rib78/One_Piece_-_King_Kong_Gun
Welp, I was in the middle of reading the calc, clicked one of the links to one of the references used in the calc, and now when I try to view the calc again the page won't load. From what I had seen up unto that point it looked solid, although I didn't see the conclusion so I can't completely give my opinion on it. Although I'm highly skeptical of that potentiality for now I guess it's fair to address it, hopefully this won't be abused within the context of the UBD.

Conjunctivitis
07-09-2015, 07:13 AM
Luffy being able to get hit with sharp weapons is not a weakness, that just means he's vulnerable to it like everyone else.

Rax
07-09-2015, 07:28 AM
Welp, I was in the middle of reading the calc, clicked one of the links to one of the references used in the calc, and now when I try to view the calc again the page won't load. From what I had seen up unto that point it looked solid, although I didn't see the conclusion so I can't completely give my opinion on it. Although I'm highly skeptical of that potentiality for now I guess it's fair to address it, hopefully this won't be abused within the context of the UBD.

The calc can't be used here at all :lmao

Zyn, Hazard of Kings
07-09-2015, 08:47 AM
Adhominem

1. You listed "mountain level+, to small island level, using Kong Gun" in his durability. Kong Gun is an attack...

2. Kong Gun is not island level.

Rax
07-09-2015, 08:55 AM
I like how Wild is trying to get the calc to pass when he always says he doesn't like scaling

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Also I wanna question the MHS+ statement since without the scaling for the calc it's irrelevant to TMF

Dellinger
07-09-2015, 09:12 AM
KKG is not mountain level or small island level :geg

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You act like reacting to a Meteor means you're instantly MHS when they saw it coming from miles away and it was slow enough that fodder got a good distance away before it hit
Are you dumb?Doflamingo reacted to it at point blank range,someone like Caesar couldn't even tell what happened in that instant.

KKG is in the gigatons.

Rax
07-09-2015, 09:15 AM
And how does that mean he's MHS+ when you have no idea of the speed of the meteor?


The sane meteor that fodder marines reacted to

Also it isn't in gigatons unless you convince the UBD To accept pixel scaling

Dellinger
07-09-2015, 09:18 AM
Oh my God..I'm telling you Caesar couldn't even tell what happened.This meteor traveled from space to Dressrosa in less than a minute how is that not fast?

Rax
07-09-2015, 09:20 AM
You have no idea of the distance or the speed

Fodder marines saw it and ran a good distance before it even hit


Also back to, KKG is city level

I ran out of good names
07-09-2015, 10:32 AM
I like how Wild is trying to get the calc to pass when he always says he doesn't like scaling
And I like how you're lying to make the other side look bad.

WILD has always looked at calcs that included scaling and even voiced his support for scalings.

Dellinger
07-09-2015, 10:43 AM
This forum is against scalings because Rax abuses them.

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You have no idea of the distance or the speed

Fodder marines saw it and ran a good distance before it even hit


Also back to, KKG is city level
I have.OP's planet is massive.The speed is bound to ridiculously huge and even a 1 minute time frame gives mach 2000.

KKG is the gigatons,I won't say it again.

WILD
07-09-2015, 11:05 AM
I like how Wild is trying to get the calc to pass when he always says he doesn't like scaling

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Also I wanna question the MHS+ statement since without the scaling for the calc it's irrelevant to TMF
What? wtf are you talking about? I AM ONE OF THE ONLY ONES THAT ARGUES FOR SCALING. That is the biggest bullshit statement you have ever made, I have literally NEVER been against scaling, you fucking moron.

Rax
07-09-2015, 03:49 PM
I don't recall this :pek


This forum is against scalings because Rax abuses them.

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I have.OP's planet is massive.The speed is bound to ridiculously huge and even a 1 minute time frame gives mach 2000.

KKG is the gigatons,I won't say it again.

Doesn't change the fact the UBD doesn't currently accept scaling


Either go convince them otherwise or no calc acceptance :33

R
08-01-2015, 07:28 AM
without calc luffys kkg is still impressive and easy city/mountain level

Rax
08-01-2015, 07:33 AM
It isn't mountain level without scaling seeing as there's a mountain next to it and its not nearly as big.

R
08-01-2015, 08:01 AM
the amount of forced needed to perform the feat equals mountain leveling. you dont have to actually bust a mountain to be considered mountain level.

Rax
08-01-2015, 08:05 AM
No it doesn't.

You'd need pixcel scaling for such an outcome, which is a no go.

R
08-01-2015, 08:21 AM
sure. it wasnt a direct hit and nontheless flipped the city upside down. it was doffys impact who caused all this - not the kkg itself. which is a gem for scaling since he took all of the energy from the attack and only the kinetic force was enough to cause all this

Rax
08-01-2015, 08:23 AM
It flipped a small piece of the city, not the entire thing

R
08-01-2015, 08:25 AM
without hitting it directly. the mess got caused from doffy landing on the ground.

Y
06-08-2016, 02:53 PM
bump, this needs a revision.

Le nettoyeur
06-08-2016, 02:57 PM
bump, this needs a revision.
Upgrading or downgrading ?

Y
06-08-2016, 02:57 PM
Down.

Albion
06-08-2016, 03:08 PM
Down.
Are you able to edit the Op?:catthink

If not I don't mind making one, I have a lot of spare time today. :maybe

Y
06-08-2016, 03:10 PM
Sure I can.

City Level DC and Dura with Small Island Blunt Force Durability is what I'm thinking.

Albion
06-08-2016, 03:13 PM
Sure I can.

City Level DC and Dura with Small Island Blunt Force Durability is what I'm thinking.
Oh didn't know Mods were capable of that. :O

I'm fine with that.

Y
06-08-2016, 03:17 PM
tweaked it.

Dellinger
06-08-2016, 04:03 PM
Why the change?

Y
06-08-2016, 04:33 PM
Because the Small Island calc was thrown out.

Dellinger
06-08-2016, 04:34 PM
Which feat?

Y
06-08-2016, 04:34 PM
KKG

McCree
06-08-2016, 09:24 PM
KKG

Can someone please explain why KKG was throw out? I never understood why.

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Down.

How is a fucking city level attack causing Fujitora to sweat?

Y
06-08-2016, 09:24 PM
Multiple assumptions and stuff that made it simply way too shaky. Just read through the blog

Reality
06-08-2016, 09:26 PM
Can someone please explain why KKG was throw out? I never understood why.

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How is a fucking city level attack causing Fujitora to sweat?
http://images.memes.com/meme/547617

K
06-08-2016, 11:05 PM
Multiple assumptions and stuff that made it simply way too shaky. Just read through the blog
congrats on mod!
i just noticed.

Dellinger
06-25-2016, 12:54 PM
Luffy is MHS+ in base also.

Y
06-25-2016, 12:57 PM
Without G2? Uh... I doubt that.

Dellinger
06-25-2016, 01:00 PM
Without G2? Uh... I doubt that.

He was matching Doflamingo's speed without G2.

McCree
06-25-2016, 01:04 PM
He basically uses G2 as base anyway. Though I do agree.