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Rax
06-12-2015, 08:05 PM
It honestly doesn't make shit for sense.

Scaling, though some times scans are found with inconsistent sizes, they're still far more credible than calcs.

Most calcs also require scaling to do, otherwise you're just eye balling them and assuming everything for the calc.

I can easily bet than artists and authors intended on scaling sizes a lot more than fan fic calcs using scientific and mathematical formulas to get the volume to joules to tons of TNT used. :lmao

WILD
06-12-2015, 08:09 PM
For once I agree with Rax

Rax
06-12-2015, 08:11 PM
Thank you.

Calcs are literally half mathematics and half scaling.

Without scaling it's all done via assumptions.

Either do scalings or don't.

I already said that the issues with scaling people have had can be solved by just going with the more consistent or correct panels.

Such as the panels of Pica and Ikusatsunagi that even with their huge size, had slight cases that put them smaller (Luffy's Grizzly Magnum Hands being about the same size as Pica's head and Natsu's time on Iku that made him much smaller than the rest of his panels portrayed him.)

Kane
06-12-2015, 08:21 PM
This nonsense is getting you nowhere, scaling is not accepted and we have been over this enough.

Rax
06-12-2015, 08:22 PM
Tell me how calcing is then when you're only assuming sizes, time frames, and such.

Kane
06-12-2015, 08:31 PM
Tell me how calcing is then when you're only assuming sizes, time frames, and such.
Because if we roughly guesstimate shit we don't get the nonsensical high ends or low ends you get when you pixelscale.

Rax
06-12-2015, 08:33 PM
You're using bullshit guessing instead of something that goes via sizes and proportions that are intended by the artists

Kane
06-12-2015, 08:36 PM
You're using bullshit guessing instead of something that goes via sizes and proportions that are intended by the artists
Artists don't even know what the fuck they want, Mashima draws war God at cloud height yet makes people visible next to his foot? :giogio

Rax
06-12-2015, 08:44 PM
And it has more consistent sizes to be giant than the small BS that you're claiming.

So Pica is like 200 meters tall now? :zaru

Kane
06-12-2015, 08:47 PM
And it has more consistent sizes to be giant than the small BS that you're claiming.

So Pica is like 200 meters tall now? :zaru


This is what I'm saying, the authors are not consistent themselves, thus pixel scaling is a dumb idea, you've just proven my point.

Rax
06-12-2015, 08:49 PM
I said to use the more consistent size.

>Saying to not use scalings cause the authors are inconsistent and don't intend them

So the artists expected people to eyeball the feats and calc them? :zaru

Kane
06-12-2015, 08:51 PM
I said to use the more consistent size.

>Saying to not use scalings cause the authors are inconsistent and don't intend them

So the artists expected people to eyeball the feats and calc them? :zaru
Did I once mention author intent?


Author intent does not matter, that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

Rax
06-12-2015, 08:54 PM
And you're still going off of ASSUMPTIONS

Giving assumed sizes based off of BS over canon panels that say otherwise would be the same as me assuming the CSK's feats all took place within 0.0001 of a second

Kane
06-12-2015, 08:57 PM
And you're still going off of ASSUMPTIONS

Giving assumed sizes based off of BS over canon panels that say otherwise would be the same as me assuming the CSK's feats all took place within 0.0001 of a second
And canon panels contradict themselves, do you see the issue?

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:02 PM
You're using cloud shit to go against all the panels that show the cube as being huge.

Going with your assumptions over on panel canon proof :zaru

Kane
06-12-2015, 09:04 PM
What the fuck :giogio

How are the clouds not canon? :lmao

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:05 PM
You're assuming that they're at that height.

Again, saying the cube is that small would make the castle much smaller than 1 of the rooms inside of it :geg

Kane
06-12-2015, 09:06 PM
You're assuming that they're at that height.

Again, saying the cube is that small would make the castle much smaller than 1 of the rooms inside of it :geg
Did anyone even buy that claim about the control room other than you, I remember W saying you were wrong.

Sin
06-12-2015, 09:08 PM
i disagree with using both calcs and scaling. both usually have too many variables and assume too much to ever be accurate; that is without factoring in that an artist can always fuck up perspective / size ratios. the only times i agree with calcs is when the author gives numbers about a specific feat / directly specifies the feat (for example, toriko busting a mountain of iron ore: no problem for a calc there) and the feat itself isn't an outlier.

for example, there's a feat in hokuto no ken that would put kenshiro at FTL because of an authors statement. no reason to calc there because its a logical fallacy and an outlier.
scaling simply is not accurate (and in turn, calcs are even less so because most depend on scaling to calc things in the first place) because it's drawn from imagination most of the time and the artists always can fuck it up. using scaling/calcs just needs way too many assumptions. the image needs to be taken at face value, the author needs to know if the feat is actually possible... etc.

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:10 PM
Crawford, who's huge for a human, was enough that would make the cube 60-70 meters easily

And the room itself is enough to fit at least 2 more of them side by side.

WILD
06-12-2015, 09:20 PM
i disagree with using both calcs and scaling. both usually have too many variables and assume too much to ever be accurate; that is without factoring in that an artist can always fuck up perspective / size ratios. the only times i agree with calcs is when the author gives numbers about a specific feat / directly specifies the feat (for example, toriko busting a mountain of iron ore: no problem for a calc there) and the feat itself isn't an outlier.

for example, there's a feat in hokuto no ken that would put kenshiro at FTL because of an authors statement. no reason to calc there because its a logical fallacy and an outlier.
scaling simply is not accurate (and in turn, calcs are even less so because most depend on scaling to calc things in the first place) because it's drawn from imagination most of the time and the artists always can fuck it up. using scaling/calcs just needs way too many assumptions. the image needs to be taken at face value, the author needs to know if the feat is actually possible... etc.
The problem with that is it makes the majority of feats completely unquantifiable. In Toriko were constantly provided stats so that's not an issue, but in the majority of other series Eyeballing a feat all draw less accurate results then even Scaling would. Look at the last few debates we've had, in the end in one way or another we've used scaling in order to reinforce our conclusions.

Maki
06-12-2015, 09:22 PM
http://puu.sh/imvP5/1602f21bbc.jpg

Battledomes was a mistake

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:24 PM
We should either use both calcs and scalings or neither.

WILD
06-12-2015, 09:32 PM
http://puu.sh/imvP5/1602f21bbc.jpg

Battledomes was a mistake
No it wasn't, we've had plenty of debates where the Debaters have reached a conclusion. One or two instances where it is inconclusive does not negate the large amount that are conclusive.

I ran out of good names
06-12-2015, 09:33 PM
The problem with that is it makes the majority of feats completely unquantifiable. In Toriko were constantly provided stats so that's not an issue, but in the majority of other series Eyeballing a feat all draw less accurate results then even Scaling would. Look at the last few debates we've had, in the end in one way or another we've used scaling in order to reinforce our conclusions.
Once again I find myself agreeing with WILD :away

And honestly, eyeballing isn't as different from scaling as people make it out to be. Both are judging sizes from the same pages with the same inconsistencies.

I mean, if authors not knowing how to draw shit means that we cant scale to get sizes, then why exactly is eyeballing such a vastly superior way of measuring?
The source material is fucked to begin with, and adding in our subjective beliefs is going to make it even worse.


No it wasn't, we've had plenty of debates where the Debaters have reached a conclusion. One or two instances where it is inconclusive does not negate the large amount that are conclusive.She was making a joke alluding to Miyazaki (or however he's called) calling anime a mistake.
She even posted his picture in her post.

Sin
06-12-2015, 09:34 PM
No it wasn't, we've had plenty of debates where the Debaters have reached a conclusion. One or two instances where it is inconclusive does not negate the large amount that are conclusive.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/916/085/570.gif

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:35 PM
Fuck that old shit :smug

Ichiryuu
06-12-2015, 09:35 PM
We use eyeballing when we can, if something can't be determined, it won't be used and we can't calc it, Easy as that. The reason why we decide against pixel scaling is that it could eventually be abused.

We're trying to establish stats by looking at feats and context as much as possible, if you can roughly eyeball something we won't have to use high or low ends, while other people could've missed something that is contradicted. It is also, to avoid favouritism for a certain series, as those who have a larger fanbase would get a lot of more votes for something to be considered legit.

This is exactly the reason why so many of the sites we know are so inaccurate and while we have many inconsistencies of our own, I believe we are heading towards a right path where we can determine what's really right and wrong.

Everyone who loves a series can get advantages from pixel scaling, there's a bunch of stuff in Toriko that makes good feats possible by pixel scaling, yet I'm refusing to use pixel scaling simply because I would like everything to happen as fair as possible.

We just have to use a few more guidelines or make something up that would let us give more accuracy to our findings. Perhaps eyeballing doesn't work either, but at least for the obvious stuff it should be useful, if we get pixelscaling in there it would immediately be abused for other "feats".

Kane
06-12-2015, 09:36 PM
I wish I could rep Cormag more often

- - - Updated - - -


We use eyeballing when we can, if something can't be determined, it won't be used and we can't calc it, Easy as that. The reason why we decide against pixel scaling is that it could eventually be abused.

We're trying to establish stats by looking at feats and context as much as possible, if you can roughly eyeball something we won't have to use high or low ends, while other people could've missed something that is contradicted. It is also, to avoid favouritism for a certain series, as those who have a larger fanbase would get a lot of more votes for something to be considered legit.

This is exactly the reason why so many of the sites we know are so inaccurate and while we have many inconsistencies of our own, I believe we are heading towards a right path where we can determine what's really right and wrong.

Everyone who loves a series can get advantages from pixel scaling, there's a bunch of stuff in Toriko that makes good feats possible by pixel scaling, yet I'm refusing to use pixel scaling simply because I would like everything to happen as fair as possible.

We just have to use a few more guidelines or make something up that would let us give more accuracy to our findings. Perhaps eyeballing doesn't work either, but at least for the obvious stuff it should be useful, if we get pixelscaling in there it would immediately be abused for other "feats".
Agreed.

Sin
06-12-2015, 09:36 PM
I wish I could rep Cormag more often

:nuu
sorry for deceiving the cb yesterday negro. you didnt deserve it

I ran out of good names
06-12-2015, 09:37 PM
I believe we are heading towards a right path where we can determine what's really right and wrong.
We'll never manage that :maybe

This is all glorified fan fiction honestly :maybe

Kane
06-12-2015, 09:37 PM
:nuu
sorry for deceiving the cb yesterday negro. you didnt deserve it
ehh it's only because you post funny ass gifs:LOS

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:37 PM
We use eyeballing when we can, if something can't be determined, it won't be used and we can't calc it, Easy as that. The reason why we decide against pixel scaling is that it could eventually be abused.

We're trying to establish stats by looking at feats and context as much as possible, if you can roughly eyeball something we won't have to use high or low ends, while other people could've missed something that is contradicted. It is also, to avoid favouritism for a certain series, as those who have a larger fanbase would get a lot of more votes for something to be considered legit.

This is exactly the reason why so many of the sites we know are so inaccurate and while we have many inconsistencies of our own, I believe we are heading towards a right path where we can determine what's really right and wrong.

Everyone who loves a series can get advantages from pixel scaling, there's a bunch of stuff in Toriko that makes good feats possible by pixel scaling, yet I'm refusing to use pixel scaling simply because I would like everything to happen as fair as possible.

We just have to use a few more guidelines or make something up that would let us give more accuracy to our findings. Perhaps eyeballing doesn't work either, but at least for the obvious stuff it should be useful, if we get pixelscaling in there it would immediately be abused for other "feats".

Opinions on Baldy trying to make the Tartarus cube 1/10th of its size due to cloud BS?

Ichiryuu
06-12-2015, 09:41 PM
We'll never manage that :maybe

This is all glorified fan fiction honestly :maybe

If you don't have faith or don't take action, nothing will ever happen. If you want to make a change, we'll actually have to do just that and put some effort into it.


Opinions on Baldy trying to make the Tartarus cube 1/10th of its size due to cloud BS?

I'm not sure about the method being used as I didn't meddle in that discussion, but I don't think that cube is big at all myself. few kilometers at best

Kane
06-12-2015, 09:42 PM
Opinions on Baldy trying to make the Tartarus cube 1/10th of its size due to cloud BS?
Singling me out? Nigga everybody and their mother thinks that thing is 2 km at best.

I ran out of good names
06-12-2015, 09:44 PM
If you don't have faith or don't take action, nothing will ever happen. If you want to make a change, we'll actually have to do just that and put some effort into it.
That's not what i meant. ʕ ᴥʔ

Every rule that has been established here (and in every other vs section) is based on our subjective views on what is right and what is wrong. We'll never truly be "right" or "wrong" because there is no such thing here.

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:46 PM
So Pica is only 100 meters tall then :zaru

And seeing as we can assume sizes I can assume time frames.

Seeing as it wouldn't even take Jackal 2 seconds to turn around and the feat happened over the course of 8 pages, I can say the time frame is 0.25 seconds :noworries

Ccrack
06-12-2015, 09:48 PM
whats this? some one thinks you can scale something using clouds? thats the most retarded thing iv heard all day

aside from that iv not got a clue what the fuck anyone is talking about, can we get some examples of the different measuring strategies people use or whatever?

WILD
06-12-2015, 09:48 PM
It's fine to use ambiguous statements that were "heading towards the right path" but I fail to see how you can establish guideline on something that's not firmly established in of itself. Favoritism and bias will still be around without pixel scaling and infect it can be abused even worse now because there's nothing to explicitly disprove their claims. I have to disagree with you Ichiryuu, I think the opposite will happen if we simply allow people to guesstimate anything.

Rax
06-12-2015, 09:49 PM
I can easily pull Law as mountain level or higher if I can scale due to clouds :maybe

Fairy Law probably too :maybe

Ichiryuu
06-12-2015, 09:50 PM
That's not what i meant. ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ

Every rule that has been established here (and in every other vs section) is based on our subjective views on what is right and what is wrong. We'll never truly be "right" or "wrong" because there is no such thing here.

Nonetheless, from the bad things we saw on other forums we are trying to be better and learn from their mistakes, which leads to us innovating on what could be the best outcome for what would be considered "right" and "wrong" for this community, we are hardly done or we've barely even started making a good change compared to other sites, so there's a lot of work to do, but we shouldn't just follow into other peoples footsteps blindly.


So Pica is only 100 meters tall then :zaru

And seeing as we can assume sizes I can assume time frames.

Seeing as it wouldn't even take Jackal 2 seconds to turn around and the feat happened over the course of 8 pages, I can say the time frame is 0.25 seconds :noworries

Would you stop crying and comparing situations to other series, it's starting to get damn annoying. I also think that Pica is under a kilometer tall at least, I forgot what I thought he was, but it didnt reach 1km.

I ran out of good names
06-12-2015, 09:53 PM
Nonetheless, from the bad things we saw on other forums we are trying to be better and learn from their mistakes, which leads to us innovating on what could be the best outcome for what would be considered "right" and "wrong" for this community, we are hardly done or we've barely even started making a good change compared to other sites, so there's a lot of work to do, but we shouldn't just follow into other peoples footsteps blindly.I am not arguing that and I do agree that that is a good goal and sentiment to have ʕ ᴥʔ

Just be always aware and ready to be wrong, especially when we are treading on new grounds ʕ ᴥʔ

Ichiryuu
06-12-2015, 09:56 PM
I am not arguing that and I do agree that that is a good goal and sentiment to have ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ

Just be always aware and ready to be wrong, especially when we are treading on new grounds ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ

I am, there's many things I'm not pleased with, but also things I am pleased with, with the current route of action. We just need to experiment till we've found what we are mostly looking for.

WILD
06-12-2015, 10:05 PM
I'm telling you with the current model it's impossible to improve upon because the foundation is subjective in of itself. This is a slippery slope IMO and there's just as much of a possibility this goes down the "wrong" direction instead of going down the "right" direction.

Ccrack
06-12-2015, 10:09 PM
can we get some examples of the different measuring strategies people use or whatever?


im sure someone will answer me some day....:excited .. some day...

Ichiryuu
06-12-2015, 10:13 PM
I'm telling you with the current model it's impossible to improve upon because the foundation is subjective in of itself. This is a slippery slope IMO and there's just as much of a possibility this goes down the "wrong" direction instead of going down the "right" direction.

I'd much rather get rid of eyeballing than use pixelscaling, but many people will disagree, because many feats that are currently being used on all kinds of forums can't be used on this one. This might mean that we can not get the stats of certain characters, even if we can it won't always be the latest of calcs.

my only problem with pixel scaling is that we'd fall into old habits where people would abuse it and there will be tons of debate and arguing whether something can be used or not.

I ran out of good names
06-12-2015, 10:15 PM
I'd much rather get rid of eyeballing than use pixelscaling, but many people will disagree, because many feats that are currently being used on all kinds of forums can't be used on this one. This might mean that we can not get the stats of certain characters, even if we can it won't always be the latest of calcs.

my only problem with pixel scaling is that we'd fall into old habits where people would abuse it and there will be tons of debate and arguing whether something can be used or not.
Are there enough people here for that abuse to be really major? :hmm

I mean, people here are already pretty weary of pixel scaling, so I can't really see them becoming lax and permisive about them.

If anything, people who scale will have it that much harder to prove that their scaling works as a middle end, and not a high or low end.


im sure someone will answer me some day....:excited .. some day...http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?27766-UBD-Profile-Naruto-Uzuzmaki&p=780069&viewfull=1#post780069
There, that is a calc involving pixel scaling.

A calc involving eye balling would have had me guessing how big the width of the slash was orignally and also guess how far it went.

WILD
06-12-2015, 10:21 PM
I'd much rather get rid of eyeballing than use pixelscaling, but many people will disagree, because many feats that are currently being used on all kinds of forums can't be used on this one. This might mean that we can not get the stats of certain characters, even if we can it won't always be the latest of calcs.

my only problem with pixel scaling is that we'd fall into old habits where people would abuse it and there will be tons of debate and arguing whether something can be used or not.
I would agree with Ysera, the people who have abused it in the past were called out on it and scrutinizee for doing so, and their results were never accepted because of it. I think that says something about if we should worry about abuse in the first place, so far no one has been able to get away with it.

I ran out of good names
06-12-2015, 10:23 PM
I mean, its not like eyeballing doesn't spark debates of that kind either :hmm

RH makes people argue with his interpretation of FT feats daily without him posting any calcs or scalings whatsoever.

Ichiryuu
06-12-2015, 10:34 PM
If we take Rax as an example, everyone disagrees with him and while some of it may obvious, most of the people who disagree with him disagree with him because it's either ft or rax and ft & Rax are considered garbage by them. We should not exclude people, if we deny everything he ever says even if most of it is considered wrong by someones eyes they will automatically deny the small part that could also very well be right, That would make us the abusers of our own system.

Another thing is exactly because it's ft that concerns me, people are sneaky and will betray our rules/guidelines in their hearts without it being their fault or being able to stop those feelings, simply because its either about a series they love or a series they have a grudge against no matter how much you claim not to have these feelings, I myself am not an exception to this.

This is a One Piece forum, someone might say some high end calc and the right reason would be to deny it, but OP favouritism could easily render our system useless. Same could be said for example we end up proving something right in general for Toriko and people who favour or like dbz will simply vote against it because they feel bad about their verse could possibly be trumped by this other verse. The same could be said for the other way around or tons of other verses. How many people don't like bleach and will do everything in their power to stop it from gaining any kind of feat?

There are a lot of cases on the internet when they in general don't have a grudge something, but because something was decided for another series against their own they might try to stop that same series from getting anything done or winning anything in other threads.

These are my concerns and while they are already present, I feel like they would only happen much more when Pixel Scaling is involved.

Rax
06-13-2015, 12:45 AM
To be fair, people on this forum HAVE admitted they downplay FT and anything I say to make me mad cause they think it's funny :pek

Personally, I don't like calcs. They're extremely stupid and biased. They only end up going for series that get attention by the people who take the time to actually do them.

Scaling is at least done with something intended by the artists. I don't think though calcs should be a thing without scalings seeing as even though people try to say scalings are inconsistent they're still far more reliable than people guessing the sizes.

Ccrack
06-13-2015, 01:04 AM
allmost anyone in the entire fairy tail series could pawn the shit out of the higher tier characters of one piece

FT is pretty hard to judge power wise. i think its mainly the lack of gore / appropriate battle damage

for example natsu can melt clothes and even stone but somehow the people with the clothes melting on them are perfectly fine?
i know we cant really have people peeling their flesh off because of something like that but still it dosnt really help gague power levels

Rax
06-13-2015, 01:09 AM
That's called Plot armor, amigo.

Ccrack
06-13-2015, 01:11 AM
That's called Plot armor, amigo.

right but i think the series would be 100 times better without it. but then hiro would miss out sales on all the little bitch boys who get mummy to buy them the latest volume so they can oogle at the boobies

Rax
06-13-2015, 01:16 AM
He's never been on e to draw gore and stuff.

Aside from that the verse is still really strong, easily above OP and Bleach at this point.

Ccrack
06-13-2015, 01:20 AM
hmm.. im unsure about bleach.. mainly because the top characters have had a powerup and we still havnt got to see what they can do, or at least some of them

fairytail characters do have a lot more potential though like using spells that arnt directly damaging

sort of like that deamon bitch who could alter your senses (forgot her name )

Rax
06-13-2015, 01:22 AM
And we already got Bleach's last couple strongest enemies where FT's strongest have yet to fully do much or be shown :maybe

black star
06-13-2015, 02:48 AM
Stop bitching around Rax.
Average altitude of cloud is only 1000 m.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_cloud
And the average thickness of cloud is 1500 m.
http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/node/152
So just comparing the cloud near the cube. It should be around 1-2 km at best.
Common sense noob :zaru

Rax
06-13-2015, 02:49 AM
So the castle is only like 50 meters wide even though it has a room multiple times that? :lmao

You're trying to go with scaling it with clouds BS over on panel canon material :lmao

black star
06-13-2015, 03:00 AM
How do you get 50 m? :hmm

Rax
06-13-2015, 03:07 AM
The castle was barely a speck on the island.

A 2 kilometer island would make the cube like 50 meters wide :lmao

black star
06-13-2015, 03:18 AM
So how do you get 50 m?
It could be only 1m :maybe

Rax
06-13-2015, 03:21 AM
So a castle with a room that's easily over 200 meters is only 1 meter overall?

Glad to see you're asretarded as I've been claiming you to be

black star
06-13-2015, 03:33 AM
You haven't provided any proof of how the tower is 50 m yet.
Guess what you are just a kid, crying so that people take sympathy on u to accept whatever your nonsense is.

Rax
06-13-2015, 03:44 AM
Castle*


You actually think the castle isn't even 50 meters wide ? :geg

black star
06-13-2015, 03:48 AM
Can't you understand English? I said how do you conclude that it was 50 m. Give me the reason.

Rax
06-13-2015, 03:52 AM
Because the isand was like 50 times the castle

The being 1/50th 2 kilometers would only be like 40 to fifty meters :geg

black star
06-13-2015, 05:40 AM
How do you get 50 times again? : hmm

Rax
06-13-2015, 05:44 AM
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x267q90/802/rirc.png

Akira
06-13-2015, 05:59 AM
http://www.mangamint.com/fairy-tail-383-farytail-fairy?page=6

Numinous One
06-13-2015, 06:01 AM
Why would you measure that side of the castle and a different side of the cube? Especially at that angle we're viewing from, it would skew the lengths slightly.

Anyway I spent like 10 seconds measuring it myself, and since pixel scaling is a big nono, I literally just full screened the picture, zoomed right in and put a tape measure on it.

Using the same side of the castle as the edge of the cube that you measured, I got 3mm for that face of the castle, and 95mm for that edge of the cube. 31.6x longer than the castle.

Take that how you will, I honestly don't care about the result.

black star
06-13-2015, 07:41 AM
Already said no to pixel scaling.

Rax
06-13-2015, 07:41 AM
Then no calcing :zaru

black star
06-13-2015, 07:48 AM
Who decided that :hmm

Rax
06-13-2015, 07:59 AM
Calcs done via assumptions are bullshit :lmao

black star
06-13-2015, 08:02 AM
Who is assuming? Comparing isn't assumption noob.

Anyway its already been decided that pixel scaling isn't allow. Cry all you want, I am taking it.

Rax
06-13-2015, 08:14 AM
Tell me how you're getting sizes if you're not assuming :zaru